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2012/10/27 20:40:30
Subject: White Dwarf...What can be done to improve the product?
I would like to see more rules and scenarios in WD. It is always refreshing to have new ways to play a game.
They could also include 'mini' games, simple games that you could play with their products. I would suspect that a racing game would be quite popular. They could include fold out play mats for space hulk/WH Quest type games.
2012/10/27 21:03:38
Subject: Re:White Dwarf...What can be done to improve the product?
If, ( and its a BIG IF ) someone out there in the GW team sees this post, maybe it'll catch on and we might get some cool stuff down the line...
Who knows?
This is not going to happen. GW's customer policy is, with the exception of a really good service, terrible. They are only interested in their profit.
Take a look at WHFB. Which armies get new army books? Those that are played the most. Not those in dire need of new rules.
Take a look at how GW makes profit. They sell a lower overall amount of products yet make profit due to constantly increasing their prices.
I do not blame GW, I believe in a free market. As long as we buy the stuff at the current prices, we deserve the prices they set. As long as the WD sells well, we deserve the product we get. If it would not sell well, we'd see a different WD now. Seeing those small changes in the current iteration means it might have sold slightly less than they had expected. Still, they apparently sell enough to make a profit...and thus we have no reason to complain about its quality.
People simply have to realize that all the whining about price hikes etc. is sth. nobody cares for. GW cares for your $. Don't like it? Don't buy it. The only thing GW cares for is their profit. If it drops by a considerable amount, they have to react. They currently have a monopoly regarding the miniature market and thus the drop has to be huge. Unlikely to happen.
If you want a new WD, stop buying it. Ask your friends to stop buying it. If asked by your local GW employee, tell them why you do not want to buy it. If they want to convince you, kindly tell them that you appreciate their effort they put into the hobby and maintaining the store, organizing events, etc. but insist on the poor cost-gain-relation the WD currently has. Everything else is a waste of time.
I remember in the 80's you could buy a dwarfer and get D&D adventures, WFRP adventures, I remember a cross over scenario involving Paranoia and a bunch of ORKS, there was an actual modeling workshop that taught us how to make terrain and different models out of existing kits, ALL KINDS OF STUFF WE COULD USE!!! Now all we get is half written articles that hype their product!
Back in the 80s, Games Workshop was the licenced printer in the UK for D&D as well as Paranoia. This is why there was material in it for those games.
I miss those days, too. Back when WD had actual content - not just "this is new, you WILL buy it" (lesson #1, telling your customers what they will buy only works for Apple. GW is NOT Apple. It's not even a worm in the apple.).
I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.
That is not dead which can eternal lie ...
... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
2012/10/28 00:16:41
Subject: White Dwarf...What can be done to improve the product?
Does anyone out there have some SOLID ideas on what can be done to improve White Dwarf?
Here are soem suggestions...
1. Drop ALL LOTR material. I could care less about Frodo and his buddies....If I want to be bombarded by LOTR, I'll tune into TNT on any given weekend and watch for FREE...
2. Quit loading it with STATIC photos. We can go to the website and check out all the latest models in a 360 degree rotating view...Again for FREE!!!
3. Start using the space for ACTUAL GAME MATERIAL!!! I work for ESPN the Magazine and I am going to clue these guys in on a little trade secret....the paper magazine world is DEAD!! People can check out all thier information online now. The ONLY reason for the paper publication is for the 4% of people out there that still actually read paper publications and we are trying to SELL ADVERTISING!!!!! GW uses thier OWN SPACE to hype their own in store product rather than generating revenue. JUST PLAIN STUPID.
4. Try utilizing the contracts made with the Role-playing guys that support your table top games.. I remember in the 80's you could buy a dwarfer and get D&D adventures, WFRP adventures, I remember a cross over scenario involving Paranoia and a bunch of ORKS, there was an actual modeling workshop that taught us how to make terrain and different models out of existing kits, ALL KINDS OF STUFF WE COULD USE!!! Now all we get is half written articles that hype their product!
The last issue I bought was the one with the Flyers for 40K. Before that it was the issue that had the Spearhead info in it. Now check my numbers, but im pretty sure thats 2 issues in 3 years...I purchased less than 6% of the Dwarfers sold in 3 years? Does that say that 94% of the publication was WORTHLESS??
Lets hear some feedback on this, I cant be the only person who thinks this way...
Andyman
EDIT: Sorry guys, maybe I should have stated point # 2 better....I could care less to see a bunch of pictures of a model in one pose when I can easily go to the website and check it out in a 360 degree view.
I will try to answer your points
1 they always did that. They had a new game out, they bombarded the people with articles and ads till they drop it and left everybody scratching their heads.
2 I think photos are the way to go in a mag
3 this point is the most important. I'm graphic designer and I ve worked for advertising and publishing companies. You are right paper publications are the past. We discussed that in meetings about 5 years ago. They are not dead yet due to many reasons but they are not the first choice of the public anymore, so they will host less ads thus making lesser profit than electronic publications.
The thing is that I would be amazed if WD made any profit above paying for its production cost. Basically it's a multi paged GW newsletter. That people pay to get it. All the stuff you want are already out there through forums and blogs. WD is dead cause we don't live in the 80 s anymore. When I was a teen you used to get all our info about music through Metal Hammer and Kerrang. I have tones of these magazines. Well guess what. Although I still listen to that music I haven't bought any music magazine for 12 years....
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/28 00:30:52
2012/10/28 00:41:11
Subject: White Dwarf...What can be done to improve the product?
Milisim wrote: Not to mention their digital products can only be bought by people who own apple products.
Needless to say most apple owners need to be beaten with a large rubber dildo.
see, this is why i don't post very often...
the OP said he likes 360 views and videos, and i said the digital product has those...
next thing you know i'm told i need a beating...
WOW!!!
thanks, Milisim...
are you gonna beat me with your dildo, tough guy, just for having recieved an iPad as a gift???
back on topic:
i love print...
i have White Dwarf from #75, every issue of Inferno, every issue of Cry Havoc and No Quarter (Rackham and PP), every BL novel (minus the limited ones), and a ton of rulebooks, all for the love of the worlds...
i don't play a single game, but the fact that i have books of illustrations and stories that evoke the scenes i want to create with painted figures has yet to lose it's appeal...
the weight of all these products is the only drawback...
now, i can have novels, mags, and rulebooks all on one lightweight tablet...
saves me renting yet another storage unit...
i don't think the physical product will ever lose it's appeal to the Old Guard...
White Dwarf is still a great bathroom reader, and i must admit i feel a small piece of my soul die everytime i purchase an ebook...
cheers
jah
Paint like ya got a pair!
Available for commissions.
2012/10/28 01:44:06
Subject: White Dwarf...What can be done to improve the product?
Other than really glossy pages, I have not really seen a difference between the new and old white dwarf. I know there are "different" sections/articles now, but, not really. It is still a major commercial for all GW merchandise. Sometimes I wonder if the price increases over the year is to support a possible loss of profit from the magazine.
COULDN'T care less! If you're going to make a point, at least use the correct term. What you're saying is meaningless as a phrase. Here's David Mitchell to explain it:
Now that that is out the way...
This post made this tedious thread worthwhile. Thank you.
You can't drop the LOTR content because some people don't play it. One problem is the GW only make three main games and not the range they used to. White Dwarf used to be a varied magazine with articles for many more games. And while they may not always be applicable to you, they are still useful and can be inspirational. But several people moaning about WD want to make it more homogenous by removing one of the three products they do make.
I think it is an issue with GW that they aren't much of a games 'wirkshop' any more. They have the same three games they've been pushing for 10 years. Aside from the flop that Dreadfleet was and the vastly more successful reprint of Space Hulk. Doesn't give much hope that they can still make new games actually. Maybe that's why they can't create interesting rules and scenarios in the magazine. They just tweak their main games and release a cycle of codexes that rely on power creep to sell themselves as the 'next big thing'.
2012/10/28 10:17:59
Subject: Re:White Dwarf...What can be done to improve the product?
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
2012/10/28 10:24:45
Subject: Re:White Dwarf...What can be done to improve the product?
Sigvatr wrote: They currently have a monopoly regarding the miniature market and thus the drop has to be huge. Unlikely to happen.
I'd be interested to find out what you're smoking, Sigvatr, as GW absolutely do not have a monopoly regarding the miniature market.
Way to go out and bark at me without reason. I'd appreciate some basic manners.
Effective monopoly, if that suits you better. No other miniatures company is even close to what GW is nowadays. Sure, there are some smaller ones like Mantic (considerably lower quality at lower prices though) and PP, FoW and the other guys, but these guys are nothing compared to the giant that GW represents on the market. I cannot recall any of those companies having their own stores, can you?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/28 10:25:08
Sigvatr wrote: They currently have a monopoly regarding the miniature market and thus the drop has to be huge. Unlikely to happen.
I'd be interested to find out what you're smoking, Sigvatr, as GW absolutely do not have a monopoly regarding the miniature market.
Way to go out and bark at me without reason. I'd appreciate some basic manners.
Effective monopoly, if that suits you better. No other miniatures company is even close to what GW is nowadays. Sure, there are some smaller ones like Mantic (considerably lower quality at lower prices though) and PP, FoW and the other guys, but these guys are nothing compared to the giant that GW represents on the market. I cannot recall any of those companies having their own stores, can you?
Aye Sigvatr is correct, if you attempt to claim that any other company has even half as sizeable a chunk of the market, you are deluding yourself, and Sig has the right of it.
GW effectively does have a monopoly on the miniature market.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/28 10:33:30
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
2012/10/28 10:36:19
Subject: White Dwarf...What can be done to improve the product?
Howard A Treesong wrote: You can't drop the LOTR content because some people don't play it. One problem is the GW only make three main games and not the range they used to. White Dwarf used to be a varied magazine with articles for many more games. And while they may not always be applicable to you, they are still useful and can be inspirational. But several people moaning about WD want to make it more homogenous by removing one of the three products they do make.
I think it is an issue with GW that they aren't much of a games 'wirkshop' any more. They have the same three games they've been pushing for 10 years. Aside from the flop that Dreadfleet was and the vastly more successful reprint of Space Hulk. Doesn't give much hope that they can still make new games actually. Maybe that's why they can't create interesting rules and scenarios in the magazine. They just tweak their main games and release a cycle of codexes that rely on power creep to sell themselves as the 'next big thing'.
It's very risky for them now to introduce more games, because new generations are computer/ console oriented nowadays. They prefer to play safe and milk their cow instead of experimenting. Although they could introduce low cost solutions such as scenarios and boards that use existing miniature ranges. Space Hulk could be much more than a nostalgic snatch. I think they are not going this way because they want to support the whole wargaming room thingy. If people get rules and boards that allow them to play with small company and a minimum range of minis at home, they won't go as often to the local GW store or retailer playroom. That means that they won't be teased as much to buy new stuff.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/28 10:38:04
2012/10/28 12:01:52
Subject: Re:White Dwarf...What can be done to improve the product?
I will admit off the bat that I'm living in the past somewhat, but still: try and entice back some of the WD staffers from the 90s era. Jake Thornton, Adrian Wood, Steve Anastasoff, Ian Pickstock and the like and give them creative control over the articles so at least there will be something of worth amongst the ads, photo spreads and Jervis' propaganda piece.
2012/10/28 12:09:57
Subject: White Dwarf...What can be done to improve the product?
Graf Hagin wrote: I will admit off the bat that I'm living in the past somewhat, but still: try and entice back some of the WD staffers from the 90s era. Jake Thornton, Adrian Wood, Steve Anastasoff, Ian Pickstock and the like and give them creative control over the articles so at least there will be something of worth amongst the ads, photo spreads and Jervis' propaganda piece.
* Jake Thornton: works at Mantic Games
* Steve Anastasoff: lead level designer at MKO games in france
* Ian Pickstock: now writes for Black Library
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2012/10/28 12:57:12
Subject: White Dwarf...What can be done to improve the product?
BrookM wrote: Knowing the quality of White Dwarf, the answer will be a resounding "NEVER"
Personally I might buy WD if it was set up as an independent company and allowed to bring in different gaming systems. Hell, even bringing in the specialist games that GW pretends don't exist would be awesome.
It's those annoying plastic sleeves they put magazines in these days that bugs me - stops you getting a free preview!
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2012/10/28 13:10:31
Subject: White Dwarf...What can be done to improve the product?
Seems alright to me, not as good as it was, but in regard to "Print is dead", if it was only available in a digital format, i would definately not buy it.
2012/10/28 13:49:25
Subject: White Dwarf...What can be done to improve the product?
If you ask me, it suffers from the high price tag it currently bears. It is a good magazine with, at least partially, interesting content, but it certainly is not worth the hefty price of 10$ / 8€...sure, it's fully colored and we can agree that at least the visual quality comes at a high standard. On the other hand, it's loaded with GW advertisement, reducing the actual content to about 50-60%. It's a pity.
So overall, I can only ask you and everyone else to not buy the White Dwarf. GW needs to realize that we do not want a "hobby magazine" that's frontloaded with advertisement and not buying it is the only way to make them acknowledge our pleas.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/28 13:51:26
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: It's those annoying plastic sleeves they put magazines in these days that bugs me - stops you getting a free preview!
Remove from sleeve
Read magazine
Return to shelf
I'm not even sure it's illegal
Haha.. I admire your neck, I don't have the balls to crack that.
I'm pretty sure it isn't cricket mind.. Smiths will be able to demand you purchase it surely?
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
2012/10/28 15:06:55
Subject: White Dwarf...What can be done to improve the product?
The battle reports in this and the last one are notably better. Way more focused on tactics and it is nice to see WD report lists looking like lists you might actually see on the table.
It also has a pretty good conversion article. It is focused around kitbashing, but that said, it gives out some pretty good conversions, including remarkably good conversions for a Commissar and archon.
It is still a little heavy on advertising, but there is a larger density of content.
Of course, this is Dakkadakka, how dare I forget my manners; HURR DURR GW IS THE TERRIBUL LKAWOAWL.
Here's a list of feasible things:
More in depth battle reports (been doing better with this in recent issues)
Valuable content for all 3 systems
Optional new rules for
Missions
Campaigns where the result of one battle affects the next
skirmish games like killzone or gladiatorial combat
modelling articles for featured new army, start off small, turning heads, wrists, minor piece swaps, graduate to advanced kitbashing pieces and end with conversions requireing pinning/greenstuff
unofficial rules for old special characters who are no longer featured in army books (doomrider, red terror, captain invictus, cypher)
Stuff I'd like but would probably be unfeasible
Sell ad space to companies that are compatible with WH/40k/LoTR but arent really competitors like armor cast battlefield effects and resin basing companies.
Include short stories/previews for upcoming BL books
Articles "behind the scenes" of GW, showcasing their finecast production or how models are sculpted/rules are written
Interviews with games designers discussing their design philosophy and reasons behind rule changes/direction for new codex/army book/rules edition
Make WD the testbed/hobby supplement that people will use in games. Emphasize content that online forums cannot offer. Optional rules for characters/missions from GW carry more weight than the proposed rules sections of any forums.
2012/10/28 16:14:18
Subject: White Dwarf...What can be done to improve the product?
The battle reports in this and the last one are notably better. Way more focused on tactics and it is nice to see WD report lists looking like lists you might actually see on the table.
It also has a pretty good conversion article. It is focused around kitbashing, but that said, it gives out some pretty good conversions, including remarkably good conversions for a Commissar and archon.
It is still a little heavy on advertising, but there is a larger density of content.
Of course, this is Dakkadakka, how dare I forget my manners; HURR DURR GW IS THE TERRIBUL LKAWOAWL.
I partially agree with the latter. Yes, the WD has significantly improved after the remake - anyone who denies this is clearly denies the truth / hard facts and prefers to stick to his own reality.
My main issue is the advertisement. You mentioned it still was "a little heavy" on advertising, but in fact, it's about half of the magazine - and that's too much to justify the price. Either cut the advertisement or cut the price. Until then: please refrain from buying the WD.
The battle reports in this and the last one are notably better. Way more focused on tactics and it is nice to see WD report lists looking like lists you might actually see on the table.
It also has a pretty good conversion article. It is focused around kitbashing, but that said, it gives out some pretty good conversions, including remarkably good conversions for a Commissar and archon.
It is still a little heavy on advertising, but there is a larger density of content.
Of course, this is Dakkadakka, how dare I forget my manners; HURR DURR GW IS THE TERRIBUL LKAWOAWL.
We must be reading different mags then, as the 'new' WD is pretty much the same as it has ever been - more a case of Emperor's new clothes so far for this revamp rather than any actual content. As per usual for GW, its style over substance - it looks a lot better with a jazzed up design and glossy pages (and a price rise to match!) but the content or lack of stays the same.
The battle reports are pretty awful IMO - this issues was only a couple of pages long, had no overview maps so it is difficult to tell what is going on and was even more blatant than usual in its admission of shoehorning all the latest releases in (they pretty much said so in the opening address that they were trying to fit all the new characters in). Compare this battle report to the so-called golden day of WD where you had proper maps and photos showing you who moved what, fired at what etc etc not just a couple of snaps with a footnote that looks like someone took them on an iphone.
Conversions are OK but very little actual content at what was done and what with. Again, compare with WD of old where you would get a step by step guide to how the conversion was done, a list of bits used and even a mail order form at the back of the mag to order the same components (back when GW allowed you to order bits). They even used to do special deals on the conversion stuff...
The larger 'density of content' is simply the same content but with a bigger font and a smaller mag size. There is no more or less than there ever was.
...
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2,000 points 
265 point detachment
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