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Aside from the obvious drawbacks of splitting guard squads, FRFSRF becomes useless and it only takes one man to die for the rest to take a leadership test, the more I think about it, the more I think I like it. Certainly, like everything, it has its time and place, but here are the following situations I would use it:

A) The enemy is using an assault army and is outflanking several units and I have no way to remove them, so I send half my troops to get objectives, whilst the rest stay behind to slow the larger enemy squads down, preventing them from reaching the big guns, meaning that they only chew through 25 points a turn from turn two or three.

or

B) When I'm up against an elite army, where their units would easily destroy 5 or more guardsmen in several squads. This has the benefit of overwhelming my opponent with many targets.

I would like to know if people think this is a viable strategy. I would also like to know if I could do this viably in any other situation.

Teddy183 wrote:
...it only takes one man to die for the rest to take a leadership test...

What do you mean? It takes 3 casualties to force a check on a basic Guard squad. In fact, only 4 man squads would ever take a check on a single casualty. This leaves command squads with a heavy weapon, HWSs and some of our elite choices as the only ones to take a check on a single death.

I think separate squads can be very useful, and a lot less unwieldy than large blobs.

Edit: Rereading your post, it sounds like you are talking about splitting a ten man squad into two five man squads. Is this what you mean? It is not actually possible to do such a thing, as we have no rule like "combat squads" available.

Blobs got worse with 6th with new wound allocation and cover save rules. MSU with Guard is actually pretty effective now. And im not sure if my math is right, but 1/10 is not 25%.

Seperate Squads has a lot of benefits, like the ability to go Mech and easier time getting cover saves (and thus more living Guardsmen by the end of a enemy phase).

But that's just my out-look, im sure someone somewhere has gotten a power blob in 6th to work.

From my initial read of the original post I gathered that the poster had gotten a little muddled up between Combat Squads and Combined Squad.

The former only applies to Space Marine codices, and is what allows you to break your squads down into 5-man mini-units. The latter is exclusive to IG and allows you to combine your Platoon Infantry Squads into one massive horde.

- Valtyr

 washout77 wrote:
Blobs got worse with 6th with new wound allocation and cover save rules. MSU with Guard is actually pretty effective now.

The countless people placing at tournaments with allied blobs want to have a word with you.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 washout77 wrote:
Blobs got worse with 6th with new wound allocation and cover save rules. MSU with Guard is actually pretty effective now.

The countless people placing at tournaments with allied blobs want to have a word with you.

^Mhm. Blobs are still they way to go. There are zero benefits to MSU worth going for as guard.

Hmm. Maybe it's just my meta then, because everyone in my meta that has run a blob has failed terribly. I still found for me that instead of running 40-50 man blobs I can run 2 20 man blobs and work more efficiently. *shrugs* Guess im lucky

 washout77 wrote:
Hmm. Maybe it's just my meta then, because everyone in my meta that has run a blob has failed terribly.

There's a high possibility they've just done it wrong.

I still found for me that instead of running 40-50 man blobs I can run 2 20 man blobs and work more efficiently. *shrugs* Guess im lucky

It's not that its impossible; just not the best option.

 Trickstick wrote:

Teddy183 wrote:
...it only takes one man to die for the rest to take a leadership test...

What do you mean? It takes 3 casualties to force a check on a basic Guard squad. In fact, only 4 man squads would ever take a check on a single casualty. This leaves command squads with a heavy weapon, HWSs and some of our elite choices as the only ones to take a check on a single death.

I think separate squads can be very useful, and a lot less unwieldy than large blobs.

Edit: Rereading your post, it sounds like you are talking about splitting a ten man squad into two five man squads. Is this what you mean? It is not actually possible to do such a thing, as we have no rule like "combat squads" available.

Yes, that is what I mean and I'm pretty sure that we CAN do this. (split it up into 5 man squads).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
1/5 of a five man squad is ONE MAN!!!! Did I write improperly?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheCaptain wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 washout77 wrote:
Blobs got worse with 6th with new wound allocation and cover save rules. MSU with Guard is actually pretty effective now.

The countless people placing at tournaments with allied blobs want to have a word with you.

^Mhm. Blobs are still they way to go. There are zero benefits to MSU worth going for as guard.

Except in the afore mentioned situation, unless you are going to provide an argument to prove me otherwise.

I have not got confused with SM codices, or the combined rule. I remember somewhere reading that each squad is 8 private equivalents, 1 corpral and 1 sergeant, split the squad into 2 groups of 5.

Msu is the way to go. The main reason is going to ground, going from a 5 to a 3 or a 4 to a 1 makes all the difference. By not combining squads the penalty is limited to 10 men at a time.

Pretty much the reason for MSU, oh dear, you killed 4 guys, one guy makes a leadership test, succeeds, cool, fails? Oh, it's only one guardsman.

Tell you what I'll do, I'll put in the "You make da call" section a thread regarding the rules in splitting up infantry squads. If it turns out that we can't then I'll drop the subject entirely.

Teddy183 wrote:



Yes, that is what I mean and I'm pretty sure that we CAN do this. (split it up into 5 man squads).

1/5 of a five man squad is ONE MAN!!!! Did I write improperly?

A leadership test requires 25% of a squad to die. So even if you could split 10 man squads into 5 mans, 1 man dying would do nothing.

 TheCaptain wrote:

^Mhm. Blobs are still they way to go. There are zero benefits to MSU worth going for as guard.

Except in the afore mentioned situation, unless you are going to provide an argument to prove me otherwise.

I have not got confused with SM codices, or the combined rule. I remember somewhere reading that each squad is 8 private equivalents, 1 corpral and 1 sergeant, split the squad into 2 groups of 5.

No. There are no corporals, and you can't split 10 man guard squads. Wherever you read this is wrong. Check your codex.

Ok, after reading through the relevant part of the codex AND the index of the rule book, I hang my head in shame and say, sorry, it was a good dream, but it cannot be so.
Oh and yes, I screwed up my maths.

Teddy183 wrote:
Ok, after reading through the relevant part of the codex AND the index of the rule book, I hang my head in shame and say, sorry, it was a good dream, but it cannot be so.
Oh and yes, I screwed up my maths.

Happens.

God on you for owning up; most dakka users would still just argue that they're right until their battery died.

I have had trouble working out what squads can do in the IG codex, too.
They cannot split squads down into Combat Squads, like SM can.
But, I cannot see anything that forces the platoon to stay together. The infantry squads and the PCS can go their own way, and the only thing they lose is orders, when out of range.
A platoon can have around a dozen squads in it, for a single Troop FOC slot. That's a lot of scoring units.

Unless I read it wrong. Can PCS and a HWS score? It seems like they can.

 Skinnereal wrote:
I have had trouble working out what squads can do in the IG codex, too.
They cannot split squads down into Combat Squads, like SM can.
But, I cannot see anything that forces the platoon to stay together. The infantry squads and the PCS can go their own way, and the only thing they lose is orders, when out of range.
A platoon can have around a dozen squads in it, for a single Troop FOC slot. That's a lot of scoring units.

Unless I read it wrong. Can PCS and a HWS score? It seems like they can.

They are troops and not a vehicle so Im assuming yes.

They can yes. so can SWS, conscripts, Penal Legions and Vet squads.

 Skinnereal wrote:
I have had trouble working out what squads can do in the IG codex, too.
They cannot split squads down into Combat Squads, like SM can.
But, I cannot see anything that forces the platoon to stay together. The infantry squads and the PCS can go their own way, and the only thing they lose is orders, when out of range.
A platoon can have around a dozen squads in it, for a single Troop FOC slot. That's a lot of scoring units.

Unless I read it wrong. Can PCS and a HWS score? It seems like they can.

Imperial Guard platoons have something almost like a reverse Combat Squads. You can take your regular Infantry Squads (not Platoon Command Squads, Special Weapon Squads, Heavy Weapon Squads or anything else) and combine them into a single larger squad of up to 50 men.

An Infantry Platoon is almost a tiny FOC in and of itself. All of it except Chimeras score and in my all-infantry lists I'll have over a dozen scoring units.

If you combine those multiple infantry squads into one larger blob, can you split them later?

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 washout77 wrote:
Blobs got worse with 6th with new wound allocation and cover save rules. MSU with Guard is actually pretty effective now.

The countless people placing at tournaments with allied blobs want to have a word with you.

Blobs are bad as support shooting units, if fielded by themselves. Blobs are quite good as assault units when allied into Space Marine armies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Valhalla130 wrote:
If you combine those multiple infantry squads into one larger blob, can you split them later?

Nope. You combine the unit at Deployment and they stay that way all game. Fortunately, if you take a platoon with 5 infantry squads, you can combine them as you see fit. You can have a 30 man blob and a 20 man blob, or two 20s and a separate squad, or a 20 and three squads, or any other convolution you can come up with.

I would beg to difer that blobs are bad at support shooting units. I run a typical gunline and I have a 30man blob with 3 autocannons and the squad has worked wonders for me. A little FRFSRF and anything withing 24in will take 2 turns of shooting before they reach me. Unless they run then it should be like 1 turn but then I should be in rapid fire range and a 30man blob FRFSRF with 3 autocannons for high strength shots is pretty nastly. I then also have a second platton with 30guys with power axes and melta bombs charging up and that unit was fantastic. When you run blobs you have to know how to be really careful especially with cover and not getting shot up in advance. A blob will work however you want it too but you have to make sure you are using it the right way.

As Fire support, deffinitly have in some form of cover like area terrain or ruins or even better behind a defence line. Use heavy weapons with the blob as well. As you have so many lasguns you dont want them to become a waste so At a distance your heavy weapons(autocannons and lascannons are what i prefer) should try to pop tanks or armord targets or start wounding monstrous creatures. Once your opponent gets closer most of their transports should be gone so it will be a lot of FRFSRF that will destroy your opponents units or even bring it down for monstrous creatures.

For assault blobs these will need cover. Use Leman Russe's to move in front to give cover and once your opponent gets close spring the tanks back and the troops forward so the tanks will be fire support now and the troops will block assaults. I now equip this blob with power axes and melta bombs. Axes because of the s5 ap2 hits and melta bombs incase my opponent wants to tie me up with walkers.

MSU are great as I still run couple of those to complete my Platoons. A good idea for running msu is that when an opponent charges they kill a couple guardsmen, you lose combat, and retreat back. In this case you only loose 10 guys and now your opponents assaulting unit is in the open for the rest of your army to just blast them off the board. So in the end it should be a good trade off with points.

I also recommend if you run blobs that have a commissar because that unit of guys will probably run after one turn of your opponent assaulting you.

I have not personally used a Priest for an assaulting blob but does anyone know if he is effective at all, I assume the bigger the blob the better the charge?

tankboy145 wrote:
I now equip this blob with power axes and melta bombs. Axes because of the s5 ap2

The axe gives +1 Str. Guardsmen would be S4 AP2.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 washout77 wrote:
Blobs got worse with 6th with new wound allocation and cover save rules. MSU with Guard is actually pretty effective now.

The countless people placing at tournaments with allied blobs want to have a word with you.

Blobs are bad as support shooting units, if fielded by themselves. Blobs are quite good as assault units when allied into Space Marine armies.

Exactly the opposite.

They are awful in assault without something conferring stubborn/fearless/astknf, because they take casualties easily, which means getting swept quite frequently.

They are great in shooting; they're the only thing in the IG dex that can put 5 special weapons on one unit. And the entire unit can accept whatever orders it is given. Not to mention, it will need to take 16ish casualties before it even has to start taking lead checks at max capacity.

I thought I said they were good assault units when allied into Space Marine armies, which implies that they've got an attached unit giving them ATSKNF.

While they can help your orders go further by getting to fire 5 plasmaguns with a single BiD or FoMT, you also have to commit yourself to always firing all 5 plasmaguns and all 40 lasguns and 5 laspistols at the same target, and your opponent can just wail on one unit and not have to worry about Overkill.

The bugaboo of the day seems to be Chaos Daemon Flamers. Keep your squads separated and 9 flamers can't kill more than 10 guardsmen at a time. Blob up, and 9 flamer can probably kill the whole damn platoon in one whack.

 TheCaptain wrote:

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 washout77 wrote:
Blobs got worse with 6th with new wound allocation and cover save rules. MSU with Guard is actually pretty effective now.

The countless people placing at tournaments with allied blobs want to have a word with you.

Blobs are bad as support shooting units, if fielded by themselves. Blobs are quite good as assault units when allied into Space Marine armies.

Exactly the opposite.

They are awful in assault without something conferring stubborn/fearless/astknf, because they take casualties easily, which means getting swept quite frequently.

They are great in shooting; they're the only thing in the IG dex that can put 5 special weapons on one unit. And the entire unit can accept whatever orders it is given. Not to mention, it will need to take 16ish casualties before it even has to start taking lead checks at max capacity.

Was going to post but this sums up my thoughts exactly.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
I thought I said they were good assault units when allied into Space Marine armies, which implies that they've got an attached unit giving them ATSKNF.

No it implies that you have an allied Space Marine/Imperial Guard army, it implies nothing about specific composition or deployment.

Even with a Marine in there though they are a good tar pit, not a good assault unit; they still can't kill stuff for crap.