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I was talking to a friend and now I'm looking for a general opinion. In DoW, I love the Assault Marine units and planned on buying a box or two, however, a friend of mine told me that Assault Marines aren't worth taking and that I should avoid them like a plaque. Is this true?

Go blood angels, they are troops. you can make an entire force around them.

don't go vanilla marines, Vinilla marines have sucky assault troopers.


/thread

for the most part they are a points sink that will never payoff, even in the blood angels army.

Which codex, and what do you plan to do with them?

I wouldn't go so far as to say avoid them like the plague, but they are hardly an optimal assault unit. For comparison, a mob of boyz will just shred a unit of assault marines due to weight of attacks and a more dedicated assault unit like berserkers or death company will shred them due to better attacks. In short, they just arn't good at what they are meant to do.

Now if you really want some assault marines and not shoot yourself in the foot, just take BA allies as their assault marines have furious charge and can potentially get FNP and a good assault character to help.

If the ASM assault the DC, they can win. DC only are scary then they get to assault. Berserkers and grey hunters, however, have counter attack.

BA ASM are now bullies and spoiling attackers. I'm not sure if its worthwhile for vanilla marines to keep a squad of these guys around or not.

I'd say the big benefit of BA ASM is the flamer saturation and accurate Deep Striking, though ripping their jump packs off and putting them in a drop pod is still better for getting them dead on for precision burning.

Don't get me wrong. I love my old Bloodhammer list. It's just bad now.

Well being troops and not fast attack is the single biggest benefit. And they can have melta. But the flamer scheme is good too, I must admit.

I will add my voice to the pool:
BA assault marines-cool.
C: SM assault marines-not cool.

 buddha wrote:
I wouldn't go so far as to say avoid them like the plague, but they are hardly an optimal assault unit. For comparison, a mob of boyz will just shred a unit of assault marines due to weight of attacks and a more dedicated assault unit like berserkers or death company will shred them due to better attacks. In short, they just arn't good at what they are meant to do.

Now if you really want some assault marines and not shoot yourself in the foot, just take BA allies as their assault marines have furious charge and can potentially get FNP and a good assault character to help.

They don't have furious charge. They lose combat tactics for a 1:6 chance of furious charge. They can take 50 point IC's that bubble furious charge and feel no pain.

They are a light harassment unit. You can use them to disrupt your opponent's backfield. If you square off against anything that looks like a dedicated assault troop, you are going to have problems. But you can clear scouts off of objectives, kill/tie up devastators and the like. They are not the unstoppable hammer of wrath like the fluff would have you believe, but the are not without uses.

The real problem assault marines have, including BA assault marines, is that there are troops in other codices that fight just as well or even better. This is why I am shooting a lot more with BA.

They are ok if you keep them out of gunfights. with only bolt pistols they get decimated

Martel732 wrote:
Well being troops and not fast attack is the single biggest benefit. And they can have melta. But the flamer scheme is good too, I must admit.

BA's have a few advantages.
BA assault marines are:
Troops
Cost 190 points for a unit of 10 with vet and jump packs.
Can Take 2x Flamer, Meltagun or Plasmagun (along with flame pistol, or melta pistol).
They can trade their jump packs for a 35 point discount on a transport.
Only scatter 1D6 if you deep strike.

So if you Mec up, you get a nice discount on tanks, if you go with jump packs, you get more accurate deep striking. Either way, you get better special weapons.

-Matt

In Vanilla Marines (and basically every other Marine Dex with Assault Marines or equivalents), they're basically just mediocre assault units with nothing to differentiate themselves than additional mobility. Their additional 6" of movement is their biggest strength, but they'll get mulched almost as easily as a tactical squad.

BAs is only one where they dont suck. Not worth taking for any other army

If you have an urge to take Assault Marines, they don't work as ten-man choppy units; I take five-man units with a melta and a powerfist as tank-hunters when I use them (which isn't often, my Fast Attack slots are generally occupied by Ravenwing)

Someone already mention this, but I use them for distraction, getting them up close fast so I can move my better well equipped squads closer with less chance of losing any of them. So in essence they're to be used as cannon fodder.

BA and those cheap MG, and the discount to rhinos. You know you want to be on RED Team.

Even in codex marine lists a squad can be relatively useful for the 'stab the shooty' tactics, especially since most people with relatively average collections end up with a squad or two from a battleforce. So use them to do things like tank grenading or assaulting things like Devastator squads.

The amount of people that see the word "Assault" in the name and think 'oh marines are pwnage, they beat everything!' then charge them into someone like Ghazghkull or a Wraithlord and rage when they get mulched is truly amazing....

Krak grenades for the Emprah!

First off don't be confused by assault being in their name, they are not a dedicated assault unit and should not be treated as such, however I have found that they can be used as area denial tools, especially if your opponent packs heavy weapons.

The only problem is that bikes do this job much better as they can always move 12", always get hammer of wrath if they have to commit and have T:5

Also, bikers can assault after shooting plasma guns. And if they are BA, they can get FNP for extra lulz. Nothing like the looks on a DE player's face when your bikes are all getting two 5++ saves vs the dark lances. I even had a guy call bs on me for *not* have a LR or terminators for him to rofl stomp. "What kind of marine player uses bikes and range 48" weapons?" The cowardly BA player, that's who.

I use Assault Marines as bait units and for them to find targets of opportunity. I will use bikes more then Assault Marines, but Assault Marines do have their uses irregardless of the codex you are using.

Martel732 wrote:
Also, bikers can assault after shooting plasma guns. And if they are BA, they can get FNP for extra lulz. Nothing like the looks on a DE player's face when your bikes are all getting two 5++ saves vs the dark lances. I even had a guy call bs on me for *not* have a LR or terminators for him to rofl stomp. "What kind of marine player uses bikes and range 48" weapons?" The cowardly BA player, that's who.

You call it cowardly, I call it experienced. Vampires have been around a while right?

Sorry, went to bed after posting my opening post.

I plan on using the Dark Angels codex and I currently use the old 4th Ed one.

Hammer of wrath is a highly underrated attribute of jump pack troops....

I dunno about that. The thing I find with Hammer of Wrath, is that it's only ever really useful for an assault squads second combat - if it lives long enough to have a second combat!

Your army has to be built with them in mind, any assault marines, even skyclaws, work well when used well.

 juraigamer wrote:
Your army has to be built with them in mind, any assault marines, even Skyclaws, work well when used well.

This very true especially for Skyclaws, you need to build your list around your Assault Squads, you just don’t “Tack Them On”.

I am still working on getting my Skyclaw/Swiftclaw double list to work, though I have not tried them in 6th yet. I usually take a full sized pack of each. Then I add a Wolf Priest to each [with Jump Pack for one and a Bike for another] then I add a Wolf Guard Battle Leader to each [with Jump Pack for one and a Bike for another each along with a pair of wolf Claws and a Pair of Wolves]. If I got some wolf guard I add a Wolf Guard Pack Leader on a bike with the Swiftclaws. Then after spending that whole heap of points I figure out what else to add, usually a pair Grey Hunter Packs and Some Long Fangs. Or if I am feeling like having real fun I just add two Bloodclaws packs.

As far as normal Assault Marines it is the same. I have been doing well with my Blood Angels list, I do find that it is a hit or miss situation. I start with my Honor Guard and then the two Assault Squads and then decide what to take next to support them. I actually lost a game vs. Orks by failing a 3” Assault with my Assault Squad and then a 30 Ork Chopper Boy Mob made a 11” Assault on my Second Assault Squad.
However they both did well vs. a Swarm Nid List later.

When I run Assault Marines with my normal Space Marine list I usually attach one to Shrike and go for a Surgical Strike against an HQ or Heavy Support Unit. Most of the time by the time I am done with the HQ there is not much left of them. This is the reason I usually take a second Assault Squad that follow in the 1st for Shrike to join up for the next target.

Now if you look at the concepts, the Space Wolf list is not that competitive, but it is a fun list to play win or loose. The Blood Angels list is more competitive. The Space Marine Shrike List is the more complicated Tactically to use. The once thing I have started to do is not put them into Reserves and go bounding from cover to cover running if I have to till I get to the point where can make an Assault on my schedule.