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Knowing GW, it will include
- rules for new variants of existing flyers (cue Forgeworld expansion sets)
- a couple of flyer rule 'fixes' (i.e. replacing codex entries) which will be bitterly argued over on the forums
- special rules for new units of existing flyers (e.g. squadrons for models which can't normally have squadrons) for Apocalypse only
- rules for a couple of brand new flyers (which by an amazing coincidence have new plastic kits about to be released) with new rules
- a couple of new kits (as previously rumoured) for existing flyer codex entries

Hmm, there'll probably be a few bits of new anti-flyer rules/models too.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Likely zero as GW has a longstanding policy of not changing rules until the next codex update. It took them almost three years to unify SM equipment so that we didn't have three different versions of stormshields and PotMS floating around.

On the other hand, given how many core rules they have changed so far in the rulebook FAQ, maybe that is changing...

GW: "We heard a lot of criticism that essential flyer rules were in WDs that immediately sold out. We took your criticism to heart and rerelease them in a limited edition supplement immediately selling out."

Eeexxactly.

Altruizine wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

Altruizine wrote:
I'm happy. I want more and better Flyers for my Tyranids. I just hope this is characterized as a "patch" for the game rather than an "optional expansion".

It would be sweet if this book also included new AA fortifications (even if they're not released at the time of printing).

Any chance this book recalibrates some extant offenders, like the Vendetta?

Likely zero as GW has a longstanding policy of not changing rules until the next codex update. It took them almost three years to unify SM equipment so that we didn't have three different versions of stormshields and PotMS floating around.

It does seem rather unlikely. But, then again, the latest rumour before today maintained that the flyer wave would only consist of four new units. They're going to have to devise a hell of a lot of scenarios and special rules to fill up that 26€ book if the bestiary (or, rather, the hangar) only consists of four units. Although I suppose they might just reprint the existent flyer rules without any addenda...

... and ts of storys about how the staff played the game.

I'm not expecting too much. Some sort of Spearhead for fliers with a 26€ price tag.

I'll surely get the book if I'm proven wrong and it actually introduces new models/rules for the main game. Otherwise, I think I'll pass.

I only hope it isn't limited edition. PLEASE NOT LIMITED EDITION!

The Dark Eldar pic of the bomber, Murderous Skies, isn't that like a year or two old?

Then again, GW loves to regurgitate it's pictures, so I guess it could be legit then.

I bet it will codify Sabre defense platforms as a final 'FU buy a guard army!' to every non imperial player out there.


Everyone has flyer on the brain, but I find it weird that flyer on flyer action is so incredibly boring. The only real tactic is 'make sure you go second.' If they want to introduce some new rules, that'd be the best area to improve.

Goresaw wrote:
Everyone has flyer on the brain, but I find it weird that flyer on flyer action is so incredibly boring. The only real tactic is 'make sure you go second.' If they want to introduce some new rules, that'd be the best area to improve.

Don't give them ideas. The Crusade of Fire dogfight rules just said "play three games of 'rock, paper,scissors', and the winner keeps their flyer", which somehow managed to be even worse than just shooting normally (both in terms of chances of killing the target and how much fun you have). The best-case scenario is a book that just adds some new flyers and some battle reports that everyone ignores, I have no faith at all in GW's ability to add new rules that actually improve the game.

As weak as the new DA flyers are and the new Eldar and Tau flyes are rumored to be, I'm hoping that these new rules will somehow make S6 more useful against other flyers (esp. AV 12 flyers like Valk/Vendettas and Storm Ravens).

Davor wrote:
The Dark Eldar pic of the bomber, Murderous Skies, isn't that like a year or two old?

Then again, GW loves to regurgitate it's pictures, so I guess it could be legit then.

The pic that appears to be from murderous skies is showing murderous skies...

Just an errata dropping the Stormraven/Vendetta/Heldrake front and side armour to 11 would go a long way to making them more reasonably priced (although even then the Vendetta is still miles better than the Stormtalon or Darktalon for the price).

Stormtalon and Stormraven for BT would be very nice. Though if we do get both, I'm not sure if I'll pony up for a Raven, at least any time soon. I already have two Talons, and Ravens are slightly problematic in that just about the only things that are safe to transport in it are TH+SS terminators and dreads, because anything without an invulnerability save just dies if the thing gets shot down!

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
A patch would be good. Something so that we can at least avoid some kind of ridiculous nonsense like, I dunno....
The most highly trained super-soldier, a specialist in heavy weapons, genetically engineered to be better than the best, in the most high-tech imaginable armour, wielding a heavy laser cannon, braced in a good firing position...
being no more likely to hit a low-flying aircraft than a running ork is.
Any game that pulled that kind of a stunt wouldn't even be taken seriously.

Well, neither does it make sense it being equally easy/hard to hit a running grot 48" away than a Land Raider sitting still 1" away

 Vaktathi wrote:
The problem is that the Vendetta and Stormraven/Stormtalon were initially designed and costed as Skimmers, not flyers. Thus, they're overarmored and undercosted as a result of being hamfisted into a new edition.

Don't even kid about raising the cost of the Stormtalon. That thing is NOT overpriced, it's 150-155 points with any of the options other than Heavy Bolter, and the only 2 HP flyer in the game!

 l0k1 wrote:
A supplement that brings flier models/rules to armies that don't have them would be nice, especially since they aren't doing WD rules updates anymore. I would much rather see a free pdf download of the rules and refocus on balancing/playtesting rules and updating models.

I'm now worried that instead of making the rules WD updates, they are just going to launch limited run expansions, meaning we need to pay even more for them if we can get hold of them at all :(

Kroothawk wrote:Here previous titles on 40k flyers:

Davor wrote:The Dark Eldar pic of the bomber, Murderous Skies, isn't that like a year or two old?

Previous titles are previous

On topic:

DarkWarrior1981 over at Warseer wrote:This is not as exciting as people may think. I saw the advert for the book at a local store; It contains only rules for fliers still on sale or with a codex entry (the Dark Eldar bomber is in), some fliers have their rules updated to 6th edition (whatever this means exactly). The only thing actually new is, that the Stormraven is now available to Codex Space Marines and Black Templars as well. Also you will find the flier rules from Crusade of Fire and new missions. The book will be on sale (no pre-order) from 16th of February, is direct only (so not from your FLGS), english language only and will not be limited stock.

Getting very excited now. Oh GW, youre an emotional rollercoaster.

Harriticus wrote:Would be more interested if it included new flyers. Tau and Eldar are still waiting. Saying SoB should get also one is a long lost cause that is not even a realistic option.

Easy enough just to give SoB the Valkyrie, IMO. God knows why they didn't do it in the WD. Everyone wins. SoB get to have a really cool model added to the range, the idea of that many Multi Meltas and Heavy Flamers jumping out of Valks is sure to make people excited AND increase the viability of the list, and GW sells more models due to a crossover kit and people willing to pay Metal prices for a unique, cool looking, and competitive army. Hell, if SoB weren't so expensive people would do that anyway, just to have Sisters Count As Vets.

Cross your fingers for Sister Valkyries.

Kroothawk wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
A supplement that brings flier models/rules to armies that don't have them would be nice, especially since they aren't doing WD rules updates anymore.

GW: "We heard a lot of criticism that essential flyer rules were in WDs that immediately sold out. We took your criticism to heart and rerelease them in a limited edition supplement immediately selling out."

This plus one.

 Peregrine wrote:

Don't give them ideas. The Crusade of Fire dogfight rules just said "play three games of 'rock, paper,scissors', and the winner keeps their flyer", which somehow managed to be even worse than just shooting normally (both in terms of chances of killing the target and how much fun you have).

I did not get Crusade of Fire, so am curious: is this serious? (Or is it some similarly, um, interesting set of mechanics?)

The argument for the dominance of the Stormraven and the Valkyrie is that they were designed as skimmers for 5th, and thus were undercosted/overarmored in 6th.

This is no doubt true, but it's not like GW didn't have options. First, they made both 3HP. While fliers of that bulk should, IMO, be 3HP, they shouldn't be AV12. So why not keep the price point and the armor, but make them HP2? They also gave the Vendetta hover, which while that makes sense, just makes a strong unit even stronger.

The second baffling aspect to this is the refusal to release high strength, low AP, anti-flier weapons in the new codices. Or, really, any anti-flier weapons at all. Chaos and DA can take flakk missiles, which have the distincition of being both expensive and fairly poor at their job. Aside from, IIRC, the icarus lascannon, the only weapons that can reliably take out the Vendetta or Stormraven are each other. Which, as noted above, reduces dogfighting tactics to "go second."

Curious how bad Flakk missiles are? Combining pens and glances, they only do twice as many hullpoints of damage on AV12 as lascannons, for a five point premium. Lascannons do 3/4 of the pens that a flakk missle gets, though, and gets the all important +1 to its damage roll.

 Magos Explorator wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Don't give them ideas. The Crusade of Fire dogfight rules just said "play three games of 'rock, paper,scissors', and the winner keeps their flyer", which somehow managed to be even worse than just shooting normally (both in terms of chances of killing the target and how much fun you have).

I did not get Crusade of Fire, so am curious: is this serious? (Or is it some similarly, um, interesting set of mechanics?)

I was going to ask exactly the same question. If so that's pretty bad, you pay £25 for a book (that for some mystifying reason is super special limited edition only) and you'd at least hope there would be a comprehensive set of rules for dealing with combat involving this edition's most trumpeted new unit type...

I was a at GW today, the manager there showed me a mail he got about this, appears Black templars are going to be avaible to use the stormtalon legal now!

 Kroothawk wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
A supplement that brings flier models/rules to armies that don't have them would be nice, especially since they aren't doing WD rules updates anymore.

GW: "We heard a lot of criticism that essential flyer rules were in WDs that immediately sold out. We took your criticism to heart and rerelease them in a limited edition supplement immediately selling out."

But do not worry. They'll send at least two copies to each one-man GW store for the masses to fight over.

I still can't believe that people pre-order models, that won't go out of stock for a while, are easily available online, and don't have the basic rules for them. If they came out with a Tau flyer I wouldn't be so impulsive as to order even one until I knew what the actual model did.

The LGS still has a stack of the Crusade of Fire books because they offered nothing worth their price. I seriously hope this supplement either gives options for flyers for all the armies without or atleast a lot of AA fortification options. As someone already mentioned, a single lascannon is complete garbage when you have 3 A12 flyers coming in with more than enough firepower to waste a single gun emplacement.

Like Crusade of Fire, White Dwarf and the Hobbit, I have no interest in this book.

I may just break out my BT army if this is the case.

 Kroothawk wrote:
A new 40k supplement book will be released on 16th February:
"Death from the Skies" (26€, mail order only, chance of being in English only).
More when I know more. But it certainly sounds like a flyer supplement.

Here previous titles on 40k flyers:




Edit (copied from this thread):

 Malthor wrote:
English only is correct, also if I recall correctly it will at least introduce the Storm Raven to Black Templars and Vanilla SM, maybe also the Storm Talon to the Templars.

DarkWarrior1981 over at Warseer wrote:This is not as exciting as people may think. I saw the advert for the book at a local store; It contains only rules for fliers still on sale or with a codex entry (the Dark Eldar bomber is in), some fliers have their rules updated to 6th edition (whatever this means exactly). The only thing actually new is, that the Stormraven is now available to Codex Space Marines and Black Templars as well. Also you will find the flier rules from Crusade of Fire and new missions. The book will be on sale (no pre-order) from 16th of February, is direct only (so not from your FLGS), english language only and will not be limited stock.

All I have to say is: Phil Plaitt called, he wants his book title back.

phatonic wrote:
I was a at GW today, the manager there showed me a mail he got about this, appears Black templars are going to be avaible to use the stormtalon legal now!

StormRAVEN or StormTALON? All the rumors Ive seen are pointing towards the Stormraven, but the original said me might get both. I only care about the Raven really.

Yeah, I'm in the "pass on this camp" I play Tau and am not going to drop FW money for a flier that needs to soak in hot water to put together, I don't have time to fix something I buy.

 agnosto wrote:
Yeah, I'm in the "pass on this camp" I play Tau and am not going to drop FW money for a flier that needs to soak in hot water to put together, I don't have time to fix something I buy.

I was under the impression youre getting a GW flyer, not FW.

 d3m01iti0n wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
Yeah, I'm in the "pass on this camp" I play Tau and am not going to drop FW money for a flier that needs to soak in hot water to put together, I don't have time to fix something I buy.

I was under the impression youre getting a GW flyer, not FW.

Tau are getting a regular flier?!?!? What'd I miss? I swear I take off for a week to go to a conference and the world changes...