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GW: We don't want to homogenise the Marines, and that's why the Stormraven is Blood Angels/Grey Knights only.

*flash forward*

GW: Here you are non-BA/GK players, totally legal rules to use the Stormraven in your armies!

The more interesting element of this book for me is updates to preexisting flyers. Hopefully this means changes (read: nerfs) to the Valkyrie and Vendetta, who were clearly not designed for 6th edition. The BA Stormraven might perhaps need a bit of a change as well, though honestly this one seems less egregious. The GK Stormraven and all other flyers seem totally fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
GW: We don't want to homogenise the Marines, and that's why the Stormraven is Blood Angels/Grey Knights only.

*flash forward*

GW: Here you are non-BA/GK players, totally legal rules to use the Stormraven in your armies!

I agree that this is a problematic choice. Will BA/SW/BT players get the Stormtalon as well to compensate? Let's hope so...

Give it a year or two, and regular marines will have access to all the new DA Landspeeders as well.

Just like they did the first time.

 d3m01iti0n wrote:

phatonic wrote:
I was a at GW today, the manager there showed me a mail he got about this, appears Black templars are going to be avaible to use the stormtalon legal now!

StormRAVEN or StormTALON? All the rumors Ive seen are pointing towards the Stormraven, but the original said me might get both. I only care about the Raven really.

on the little spoiler i got to see its going to be a revamp of the flyers included statchanges as goes for the ork bommer, but one of thepics i saw and the text included "black templar stormTalon"

GW: We don't want to homogenise the Marines, and that's why the Stormraven is Blood Angels/Grey Knights only.

*flash forward*

GW: Here you are non-BA/GK players, totally legal rules to use the Stormraven in your armies!

I know it's not the way you meant what you said, but don't know what the worry about homogenizing Marines' vehicles would be. Before about the time the Baal came out for the Blood Angels, every Chapter had access to the same vehicles. Only the troops made the Chapter unique.

I say keep the vehicles "unique in unlimited numbers" to specific Chapters, and then do like the first version of the Land Raider Crusader was for non-BT chapters, being limited in number.

On the other hand I can completely see it as a way to hugely strengthen sales of Storm Talons/Ravens. Especially Storm rRavens- I'm sure GW wants every increased opportunity to sell an $80 model.

I will be happy with any flyer for my BT. At least then I wont have to take guard for a vendetta just to have a flyer.

So are these rules and new state lines going to replace the current ones?

I play orks for example. Will these rules replace the current ork flyer rules all together?

Presumably, though I'm doubting that the rules will see much change. It'll just be a reprint of the existing ones for those who don't have them. Ie either fork out £4 during the limited run for your rules or the £20 or whatever for the pdf. Of course seeing as its a digital copy I'm questioning who will actually buy it other than the customer base that blindly forks out money with every fad release. I'd imagine that most people who would want the rules and have access to a computer would have just downloaded an illegal copy of them by now.

But seeing as it going to be costing something silly considering that it isn't even a physical copy and the content isn't even knew GW's going to make a decent profit. Hey it'll be a required purchase for x amount of years until GW release another flyers supplement. =P

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I know it's not the way you meant what you said, but don't know what the worry about homogenizing Marines' vehicles would be. Before about the time the Baal came out for the Blood Angels, every Chapter had access to the same vehicles. Only the troops made the Chapter unique.

I don't see what the worry is either. I think it works from a fluff perspective (why would the GKs and BA's, of all people, be the only ones to have those transports - just 'cause they were the two Marine Codices that came out in a row, it seems) and from a sales perspective (why intentionally cut other Marine players, the majority of which don't play BAs/GKs, from such a vehicle). I mean, I don't play BAs/GKs and I bought two of the things. I imagine many more players would as well if they could legally field them.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
On the other hand I can completely see it as a way to hugely strengthen sales of Storm Talons/Ravens. Especially Storm rRavens- I'm sure GW wants every increased opportunity to sell an $80 model.

GW is often-times petrified of making money, and make really odd decisions that run counter to really obvious ways to increase sales. And then at the same time they go and remove limits on units that used to have limits. It doesn't really make much sense, and I think it's a case of the left hand not knowing that the right hand exists.

My predicition is huge rule changes for current problem child flyers.

- Vendetta/valk 12/10/10 with all current rules staying the same. Possibly available for SoB.
-Stormravens 12/11/11 and a slight price decrease, also available to BT, SW and C:SM.
-Nightscythe slight point increase.
-Relase of rules for Tau/Eldar/Tyranid flyers.

With this release, all armies except Daemons have flyers. Enjoy your newly awesome flakk missiles that can pen anything 1/3rd of the time.

Vendy for the SoBs? Nah. They'll get their own garish flying cathedral pipe organ nightmare when the time comes, no doubt armed with a Holy Cannon and Faithstrike Missiles.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
On the other hand I can completely see it as a way to hugely strengthen sales of Storm Talons/Ravens. Especially Storm rRavens- I'm sure GW wants every increased opportunity to sell an $80 model.

GW is often-times petrified of making money, and make really odd decisions that run counter to really obvious ways to increase sales. And then at the same time they go and remove limits on units that used to have limits. It doesn't really make much sense, and I think it's a case of the left hand not knowing that the right hand exists.

Or to be really cynical, GW release a chapter-specific model in the hope that customers will buy a whole new army just to field that chapter-specific model, GW then deliberately wait a year and announce that all chapters can now field that same model, in the hope of another sales spike. That's how cold-hearted accountants think, alas :(

Engage New Hat for Malibu Stacy Protocol, Chapter Master!

 Clang wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
On the other hand I can completely see it as a way to hugely strengthen sales of Storm Talons/Ravens. Especially Storm rRavens- I'm sure GW wants every increased opportunity to sell an $80 model.

GW is often-times petrified of making money, and make really odd decisions that run counter to really obvious ways to increase sales. And then at the same time they go and remove limits on units that used to have limits. It doesn't really make much sense, and I think it's a case of the left hand not knowing that the right hand exists.

Or to be really cynical, GW release a chapter-specific model in the hope that customers will buy a whole new army just to field that chapter-specific model, GW then deliberately wait a year and announce that all chapters can now field that same model, in the hope of another sales spike. That's how cold-hearted accountants think, alas :(

I think Clang is exactly right.

Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to incompetence.

Coyote81 wrote:
My predicition is huge rule changes for current problem child flyers.

- Vendetta/valk 12/10/10 with all current rules staying the same. Possibly available for SoB.
-Stormravens 12/11/11 and a slight price decrease, also available to BT, SW and C:SM.
-Nightscythe slight point increase.
-Relase of rules for Tau/Eldar/Tyranid flyers.

With this release, all armies except Daemons have flyers. Enjoy your newly awesome flakk missiles that can pen anything 1/3rd of the time.

Daemons have fliers. Lots of them. 2 of the greater deamons are FMC, as are Daemon Princes. They can field more fliers per FOC than any army other than Necrons and Guard.

I think it very unlikely that GW would change points costs and rules in a supplement.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to incompetence.

Or never attribute to incompetence that which can be attributed to a business decision.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I think it very unlikely that GW would change points costs and rules in a supplement.

I would say so too. especially as it is only available in english and direct order only,

Unless of course they decided to cut costs for translations and publish the new Citadel-Dictionary alongside instead

Ever heard of Ravening Hordes? I played warhammer fantasy with an army that was changed to fit in a 5 page paper supplement for roughly 5 years. I'll never put it past GW to changes rules in even the most cheaply made supplement.

 Ministry wrote:

 d3m01iti0n wrote:

 Ministry wrote:

 Malthor wrote:
English only is correct, also if I recall correctly it will at least introduce the Storm Raven to Black Templars and Vanilla SM, maybe also the Storm Talon to the Templars.

DA could really use a better flyer so I hope they make the ST accessible to them.

Jesus Christ........gets a brand new codex and a ton of models and still isnt happy............

The new DA flyers are great looking models but statistically they are absolute rubbish for their points cost. We need a competitive flyer like the Helldrake or Vendetta, or the Stormtalon....

Sooo....the Vendetta. Aka the most undercosted thing in any codex evar?

AV 12 all around, BS 4, 3 Twinlinked lascannons, ignores crew shaken and stunned results, and has skyfire while in hover mode. All of that is base at 130pnts. It's op as hell. Not because of it's special rules or weapons or anything, but because it's stupidly undercosted and does both anti-tank and anti-flyer more efficiently then anything in any other codex forever.

 TheMind wrote:

 Ministry wrote:

 d3m01iti0n wrote:

 Ministry wrote:

 Malthor wrote:
English only is correct, also if I recall correctly it will at least introduce the Storm Raven to Black Templars and Vanilla SM, maybe also the Storm Talon to the Templars.

DA could really use a better flyer so I hope they make the ST accessible to them.

Jesus Christ........gets a brand new codex and a ton of models and still isnt happy............

The new DA flyers are great looking models but statistically they are absolute rubbish for their points cost. We need a competitive flyer like the Helldrake or Vendetta, or the Stormtalon....

Sooo....the Vendetta. Aka the most undercosted thing in any codex evar?

AV 12 all around, BS 4, 3 Twinlinked lascannons, ignores crew shaken and stunned results, and has skyfire while in hover mode. All of that is base at 130pnts. It's op as hell. Not because of it's special rules or weapons or anything, but because it's stupidly undercosted and does both anti-tank and anti-flyer more efficiently then anything in any other codex forever.

Wait what?

It is AV10 on the back, BS3, doesnt ignore crew shaken, reduces stuns to shakens and doesn't have skyfire when in hover. You're mistaken as hell.

Please check your facts before posting.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I think it very unlikely that GW would change points costs and rules in a supplement.

Yeah, this sounds to me more like another one of those pointless expansions that no one will play. Unless GW uses language like "official codex update for ____" or whatever in the book then no one's really going to take it seriously.

And they're definitely not going to make the Storm Raven available as a normal unit for marine armies.

What they might do, is encourage people to buy it for them in the scenario games though.

Right now, the Storm Raven is in a pretty good money making position for GW.

"I have ultramarines but I really want to use a storm raven. Oh hey look, ALLIES rules, I can ally in a Grey Knights Storm Raven with an HQ and a unit of Grey Knight Terminators to go in it..... "

"Hey.... I've got a Storm Raven, an HQ and a Grey Knight Terminator unit, all I need is another grey knight squad and the codex and I've got a small version of another army......"


"Hey, I've got a small Grey Knight army, I might as well make it bigger so I can play some games with that!"

"Hey, my Grey Knights army can use some extra bodies on the field, I could ally in some Guardsmen...."

Repeat ad infinitum. All thanks to having a Storm Raven not in Codex Space Marines.

Vanilla Stormravens? Oh god, now I have to get one!

I wonder if other chapters' Strormravens will have same weapon loadouts as BA ones.

 pizzaguardian wrote:

 TheMind wrote:

 Ministry wrote:

 d3m01iti0n wrote:

 Ministry wrote:

 Malthor wrote:
English only is correct, also if I recall correctly it will at least introduce the Storm Raven to Black Templars and Vanilla SM, maybe also the Storm Talon to the Templars.

DA could really use a better flyer so I hope they make the ST accessible to them.

Jesus Christ........gets a brand new codex and a ton of models and still isnt happy............

The new DA flyers are great looking models but statistically they are absolute rubbish for their points cost. We need a competitive flyer like the Helldrake or Vendetta, or the Stormtalon....

Sooo....the Vendetta. Aka the most undercosted thing in any codex evar?

AV 12 all around, BS 4, 3 Twinlinked lascannons, ignores crew shaken and stunned results, and has skyfire while in hover mode. All of that is base at 130pnts. It's op as hell. Not because of it's special rules or weapons or anything, but because it's stupidly undercosted and does both anti-tank and anti-flyer more efficiently then anything in any other codex forever.

Wait what?

It is AV10 on the back, BS3, doesnt ignore crew shaken, reduces stuns to shakens and doesn't have skyfire when in hover. You're mistaken as hell.

Please check your facts before posting.

OK well, I've apparently been cheated on the Skyfire in hover mode thing. My point still stands. Also I saw that edit. Pot, kettle, black?

Right now, the Storm Raven is in a pretty good money making position for GW.

"I have ultramarines but I really want to use a storm raven. Oh hey look, ALLIES rules, I can ally in a Grey Knights Storm Raven with an HQ and a unit of Grey Knight Terminators to go in it..... "

"Hey.... I've got a Storm Raven, an HQ and a Grey Knight Terminator unit, all I need is another grey knight squad and the codex and I've got a small version of another army......"


"Hey, I've got a small Grey Knight army, I might as well make it bigger so I can play some games with that!"

I didn't really think of that, but it's true.

I can see the 'Talon being opened up to other Chapters, though I hate the very idea of the model. It completely outmoded land speeders in their own job, when the model they should have released was the FW land Speeder Tempest in plastic to fulfill the same "SM flyer" role.

My sources say this will be a 70 page "compendium".

It will have updated 6th edition rules for flyers:

Stormraven (now available to space marines and BT)
Storm Talon
Ork Bomba / dakka jet / burna bomba
Valkyrie / vendetta
Razorwing & Voide Raven
Night Scythe / doom scythe

also dog fighting rules from crusade of fire and a new flyers scenario.

Here's hoping for a massive nerf to Vendettas.

All thumbs pressed!

 Sigvatr wrote:
Here's hoping for a massive nerf to Vendettas.

All thumbs pressed!

Not a nerf, just a points increase. Maybe 180?