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Well, a points increase is a nerf

And: the more, the better. Huarhuar.

So it's a copy and paste of the flier bits of crusade of fire and the iBook flyer data sheets?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Vendy for the SoBs? Nah. They'll get their own garish flying cathedral pipe organ nightmare when the time comes, no doubt armed with a Holy Cannon and Faithstrike Missiles.

The plan is to sell vendettas to SoB players, and when the new codex comes around, invalidate vendettas as a legal choice, replacing it with the garish flying cathedral pipe organ nightmare with holy cannon and faithstrike missiles.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Well, a points increase is a nerf

And: the more, the better. Huarhuar.

Just semantics I guess, but when I think of nerf, I think of changing their rules/options so that they can no longer fulfill the same role they once did and/or affect their survivability.

Though now that I think about it, the MASSIVE pts increase to the carnifex was a nerf, so nevermind!

Maybe it will finally give my Space Marines some damn Flakk missiles to shoot down those flyers.

I am sure the IG flyers will get a point increase and then tac it on to their FAQ. At least that's how I imagine it could go.

I would like to see them to open up more weapon combos for the Valkyrie, the Vendetta weapon load out was just over the top. I would be surprised if they didn't add the flak missiles.

I would be surprised if they add ANYTHING that contradicts a codex entry, but I'm afraid anyone hoping for a stat change or points change is going to be sadly disappointed.

I mean, can you imagine the clusterfeth if two players meet, one who owns the supplement and one who doesn't? Both would be official documents and I believe the general consensus is when there's a contradiction the Codex wins.

Of course GW could try and make this a mandatory item for play, and while I wouldn't rule it out, it would be the first expansion that was required in the history of the game, even if some were so popular as to be considered 'the norm' they were never actually required.

So will i need the book to use the StormRaven for my SM?

Am I the only one who thinks it would be entirely ridiculous for them to release a book full of rules that already exist and not give any love to the armies still waiting for a flier?

Also haven't they said on multiple occasions that they never intend to give non C:SM armies the Talon?

Player not found wrote:

 Melcavuk wrote:
And a book with the rules for some flyers already released that arent available in print (looking at you stormtalon and ork flyer)

That was my first thought. About effing time..!

Except its $40 to get access to those rules.

 azreal13 wrote:
I would be surprised if they add ANYTHING that contradicts a codex entry, but I'm afraid anyone hoping for a stat change or points change is going to be sadly disappointed.

I mean, can you imagine the clusterfeth if two players meet, one who owns the supplement and one who doesn't? Both would be official documents and I believe the general consensus is when there's a contradiction the Codex wins.

Of course GW could try and make this a mandatory item for play, and while I wouldn't rule it out, it would be the first expansion that was required in the history of the game, even if some were so popular as to be considered 'the norm' they were never actually required.

They have already done it in WD. Flamers and screamers are different in the WD update from their codex entry.

WD was an official codex update, not an expansion, though.

 Kingsley wrote:
The more interesting element of this book for me is updates to preexisting flyers. Hopefully this means changes (read: nerfs) to the Valkyrie and Vendetta, who were clearly not designed for 6th edition. The BA Stormraven might perhaps need a bit of a change as well, though honestly this one seems less egregious. The GK Stormraven and all other flyers seem totally fine.

I wouldnt expect anything game changing in a limited release direct only book, its $40 and collects all the fliers in the game, thats probably about it. It's nothing more then a monstrous cash grab.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Kingsley wrote:
The more interesting element of this book for me is updates to preexisting flyers. Hopefully this means changes (read: nerfs) to the Valkyrie and Vendetta, who were clearly not designed for 6th edition. The BA Stormraven might perhaps need a bit of a change as well, though honestly this one seems less egregious. The GK Stormraven and all other flyers seem totally fine.

I wouldnt expect anything game changing in a limited release direct only book, its $40 and collects all the fliers in the game, thats probably about it. It's nothing more then a monstrous cash grab.

I've see a lot of people try to make themselves believe this. I refer back to Ravening Hordes, where they did a limited and cheaply make booklet that replaced every army book for every fantasy army. IT WAS LIMITED! It ended up being a nightmare, I saw so many photo copied booklets.

I'm told this book will be a range item and not a limited release.

If BT don't in fact get a Talon and only a Raven instead, I suppose I'll end up needing a Raven. But with the contradictory info on the Talon, who the heck knows. Mainly an issue because I might have a source for "pre-owned" but unassembled Raven for a decent price, but it's not gonna be there while I wait for confirmation.

 Lorizael wrote:
I'm told this book will be a range item and not a limited release.

So its a patch then? A patch that we have to pay for under the guise of a campagin book.

Basically it sounds like instead of getting a rules update in WD for £5.50 we are going to have to pay £20-30 for a product with the same amount of content because we where all naughty to complain about availability of rules content in WD so there won't be any.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Basically it sounds like instead of getting a rules update in WD for £5.50 we are going to have to pay £20-30 for a product with the same amount of content because we where all naughty to complain about availability of rules content in WD so there won't be any.

Eh. If it really comes with expanded content, I'll pay for that. No different than paying for Codex: Armageddon back in the day, and that book sold like hotcakes.

Codex:Armageddon had new content, it wasn't a collection of already existing datafaxes and rules from another supplement which is quite frankly all this is starting to sound like. If the only new content is going to be two fliers then whack it in WD and put a PDF up on the website the month after. Sorted.

@kingsley we all know far too well your opinion on all GW products so we don't expect any objective commentary from you.

I don't play at an official GW store so it doesn't really matter how much the thing costs, as I can just find out the points cost and roll with that, the rules etc. themselves are already known (for the SM fliers) or easily found out. Don't need the actual book for that.

If the price isn't silly though, I can just as well buy it.

Didn;t we just have a flyers update from FW - which was pretty poor in that it had virtually nothing new.....

although it did have a SOB flyer - pretty ugly one but it was there - the Valkyrie conversion makes much more sense.

I assume it will be £30+ sadly.

If we are lucky - some / all of the FW models will be in this supplement and more official than they are already - ie no suggestion to ask permission etc.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Didn;t we just have a flyers update from FW - which was pretty poor in that it had virtually nothing new.....

Well it wasn't meant to be anything new. It was meant to be all the FW flyers in one book updated for 6th. Can't really criticise an object for not doing something it never set out to do in the first place. That'd be like condemning my toaster 'cause it doesn't make ice cubes.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Basically it sounds like instead of getting a rules update in WD for £5.50 we are going to have to pay £20-30 for a product with the same amount of content because we where all naughty to complain about availability of rules content in WD so there won't be any.

Exactly, they have an avenue for Errata as is for free on their website, any changes in this book would be minor anyway, If they actually change anything and it is a "must buy" then that makes GW a bunch of pumps.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Didn;t we just have a flyers update from FW - which was pretty poor in that it had virtually nothing new.....

Well it wasn't meant to be anything new. It was meant to be all the FW flyers in one book updated for 6th. Can't really criticise an object for not doing something it never set out to do in the first place. That'd be like condemning my toaster 'cause it doesn't make ice cubes.

Yeah maybe I was overely hopeful / not read the adverts right - there were some new Anti-Air options I suppose.

I have all the previous Imperial Armour etc books and it did seem to be getting a bit repatative with some of the entries.

I would not be suprised if some of the entries in FW book are going to be invaldiated (again) by the new GW book - I wish they would work together a bit more :(

 Kroothawk wrote:

DarkWarrior1981 over at Warseer wrote:This is not as exciting as people may think. I saw the advert for the book at a local store; It contains only rules for fliers still on sale or with a codex entry (the Dark Eldar bomber is in), some fliers have their rules updated to 6th edition (whatever this means exactly). The only thing actually new is, that the Stormraven is now available to Codex Space Marines and Black Templars as well. Also you will find the flier rules from Crusade of Fire and new missions. The book will be on sale (no pre-order) from 16th of February, is direct only (so not from your FLGS), english language only and will not be limited stock.

 Lorizael wrote:
My sources say this will be a 70 page "compendium".

It will have updated 6th edition rules for flyers:

Stormraven (now available to space marines and BT)
Storm Talon
Ork Bomba / dakka jet / burna bomba
Valkyrie / vendetta
Razorwing & Voide Raven
Night Scythe / doom scythe

also dog fighting rules from crusade of fire and a new flyers scenario.
(...)
I'm told this book will be a range item and not a limited release.

Ah, seems like not such a big deal, then... thanks for the updates.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Codex:Armageddon had new content, it wasn't a collection of already existing datafaxes and rules from another supplement which is quite frankly all this is starting to sound like. If the only new content is going to be two fliers then whack it in WD and put a PDF up on the website the month after. Sorted.

Codex: Armageddon had a few new army lists, which at the time were being published in White Dwarf as well. The exact same argument holds-- instead of saying "why not just put the new flyers in WD that month," you could just as easily say "why not just put the Speed Freeks and Steel Legion in Chapter Approved and run two Index Astartes articles that month?" I believe (and GW apparently believes) that the community is willing to pay for this type of supplement, and historical trends seem to agree.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
@kingsley we all know far too well your opinion on all GW products so we don't expect any objective commentary from you.

Interesting that you claim to know my opinion on "all GW products." My opinion differs when it comes to different products, so your claim seems unlikely at best. For instance, I love 40k 6th edition, but WHFB 8th edition leaves me cold. I think the new Dark Eldar range are perhaps the best wargaming models produced by any manufacturer, but I was underwhelmed by the new Grey Knights, even though they are a clear improvement over the old ones-- simply because there was such room for improvement that GW missed. I think GW outright botched the new Tyranid release and that the army would be far more popular now if the Tervigon/Tyrannofex kit had come out at launch instead of the Raveners, Gargoyles, or Trygon.

Because it was 5 new army lists and story for under $20? And they werent printed in white dwarf for ages after, and it was only salamanders and black templar. At the time there was rules being printed in WD every other month and made it worth reading. They also collected those white dwarves together in one book on the off chance there wasnt any more copies, I dont remember white dwarf ever selling out before GW started artificially controlling it.

The big difference is that "willing to pay" customers werent feeling like they were getting robbed 10 years ago, now this book is looking like its $40 and going to bring a nerf stick to the table for all those people that went out and took advantage of GWs rules 6 months after the fact. Its a patch to fix GWs screw up for not properly play testing it or writing an errata, and they want you pay for their negligence! You sold something that was broken and then put hand out waiting to get paid for a fix?

 Ravenous D wrote:
The big difference is that "willing to pay" customers werent feeling like they were getting robbed 10 years ago

Speak for yourself. I think the value proposition on this is good and I'll probably buy it if it has updated rules for my stuff, or if the expanded Crusade of Fire rules are cool enough. If you don't feel that way, I suggest that you don't buy.