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 azazel the cat wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:FW Aeronautica book is not sold via GW stores or webstore, so it's a different market.
I don't know exactly what is in "Death from the Skies", but if it is just a big flyer FAQ, people will not be amused paying for it. Official point adjustments for e.g. vendetta should be in the official 6th edition update for IG, not in some English mail order only booklet.

Also, the rumour on a flyer model release is completely different from this rumour. I know that the book is coming, I only know some unconfirmed rumours about a flyer model release (the models certainly exist and are just waiting for a release slot though).

Has there ever been a precedent set for a point adjustment to a model mid-edition, or in a FAQ? I'm curious, because I really enjoy exactly how the Night Scythe works right now.

Sorry I believe what you just said belongs in this thread....

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/503469.page

Or this one....

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/503564.page

I'll let you choose which.



OT, there has in a sense that they sometimes revamp codex' in WD updates.

 azazel the cat wrote:
Has there ever been a precedent set for a point adjustment to a model mid-edition, or in a FAQ? I'm curious, because I really enjoy exactly how the Night Scythe works right now.

What a big surprise that you do. Aside from the Daemon WD update the one thing that comes to mind is the Helbrute FAQ update, but I believe I read somewhere that the original price was a typo, so I guess it was more of a fix than an adjustment.

There's also the FAQ that updated the DA and BT wargear. That included price changes on stuff like Storm Shields.

tvih wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:
Has there ever been a precedent set for a point adjustment to a model mid-edition, or in a FAQ? I'm curious, because I really enjoy exactly how the Night Scythe works right now.

What a big surprise that you do. Aside from the Daemon WD update the one thing that comes to mind is the Helbrute FAQ update, but I believe I read somewhere that the original price was a typo, so I guess it was more of a fix than an adjustment.

I started playing Necrons in 5th... I EARNED THIS, DAMMIT!

Are there any rumors regarding the tyranid harpy there? :-/

 Niiai wrote:
Are there any rumors regarding the tyranid harpy there? :-/

Yeah it's going to be in "Death from the Skies Volume II"

If the vanilla marines and the BT get the storm raven, does that leave wolves as the only marine/loyalist army without a flier?

PredaKhaine wrote:
If the vanilla marines and the BT get the storm raven, does that leave wolves as the only marine/loyalist army without a flier?

Wolves and Sisters I believe. If Sisters don't get the Vendetta/Valk/Faithbomber in this book.

Sisters have two options in Imperial Aeronautica - Aquila and the new fighter whose name escapes me.

Sadly some people don't allow use of these official rules in normal play - thats why it would have been better for GW to say they were in all ways official and needed no more permssion than any other games do.

Aquila Lander - now OOP
Avenger Strike Fighter - high points costs compared to effectiveness (2 HP only hurts)

 Mr Morden wrote:
Sisters have two options in Imperial Aeronautica - Aquila and the new fighter whose name escapes me.

Sadly some people don't allow use of these official rules in normal play - thats why it would have been better for GW to say they were in all ways official and needed no more permssion than any other games do.

The Aquila? Really? That thing is a joke. Same with the Arvus. They both suck except for the fact they have 3 hull points. The Avenger isn't bad however. The problem with them is the 'stigma' of being Forge World. Honestly I don't think I would trade my Fast Attack choice off for an Aquila as that is a whole lot less bang for my points.

 azazel the cat wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:FW Aeronautica book is not sold via GW stores or webstore, so it's a different market.
I don't know exactly what is in "Death from the Skies", but if it is just a big flyer FAQ, people will not be amused paying for it. Official point adjustments for e.g. vendetta should be in the official 6th edition update for IG, not in some English mail order only booklet.

Also, the rumour on a flyer model release is completely different from this rumour. I know that the book is coming, I only know some unconfirmed rumours about a flyer model release (the models certainly exist and are just waiting for a release slot though).

Has there ever been a precedent set for a point adjustment to a model mid-edition, or in a FAQ? I'm curious, because I really enjoy exactly how the Night Scythe works right now.

Every single marine codex being handed good drop pods, 3++ storm shields, 2 shot cyclones and a bunch of other rules. Or the chaos hellbrute, regardless it means GW can update and change things for free via their website if its a patch.

andrewm9 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Sisters have two options in Imperial Aeronautica - Aquila and the new fighter whose name escapes me.

Sadly some people don't allow use of these official rules in normal play - thats why it would have been better for GW to say they were in all ways official and needed no more permssion than any other games do.

The Aquila? Really? That thing is a joke. Same with the Arvus. They both suck except for the fact they have 3 hull points. The Avenger isn't bad however. The problem with them is the 'stigma' of being Forge World. Honestly I don't think I would trade my Fast Attack choice off for an Aquila as that is a whole lot less bang for my points.

Oh I agree - it does seem very expensive - and I forgot about the Arvus - I don't like the look of the Avenger myself - I did make up rules for the SOB Valkyrie

Agree re the "FW Stigma" - sad but true, it did not help having the "with opponents permission in the most recent books - unlike the WFB book IIRC, which for me are just larger (and better) army books with loads of shiny pictures and fluff and increasingly better value.........

 Kingsley wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:
Razorwing would have looked better.

I'm not a DE player or anything, but I think the Razorwing is the apex of the current GW fliers, modelwise. I think it's the most beautiful flyer they have ever built, and that DE release as a whole was the best the HHHobby can be.

Definitely agreed. The DE release was essentially perfect-- awesome new models, awesome new rules, and price decreases on most units. I wish the same could be said of all releases.

...yeah...well they got two right, at least.

I didn't know that about the studio though, it would explain a lot if it's true. Too bad they don't let the studio take control more often...

And if any of you thinks they haven't already thought of "skyrovore" then you're mistaken. I'd bet $5 it's already scrawled out on a napkin somewhere in GW HQ.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You've gone "Full Apologist" today, haven't you pretre. It's kinda frightening.

You're coming in at the end of the conversation. I was simply showing that there was precedent for this kind of release.

Fact of the matter is that these rules, like all the Apoc Datasheets, should'a been in PDF format on the website within a month of the WD's release. Ditto for the SoB army list. Instead they intentionally chose to limit who could get the rules via releasing it in an iOS only format and asking people to pay for it.

Should or should not doesn't matter. It just was the way it was with Chapter Approved. I was providing historical precedent.

And half of the things you listed didn't even have models or the rules were available elsewhere. "Cult Terminators" - no models for them. Deathwatch? They were a conversion kit and they got a PDF release anyway. Emp's Chump... rules would be in Codex: Armageddon, no?

This was pre-Codex Armageddon, IIRC. And yes, some of those things didn't have models and this was pre-pdf days as well, iirc.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Funny, how Warseer closed a copy of this thread for being just another made up flyer rumour not worthy enough for their forum.

Hi Kroothawk- silverstu from warseer- I'm the one who nicked your info and posted it on warseer [sorry about that!]- just to clarify I locked the thread- not because of worthiness of the rumour but because of the whiney/complaining/negative attitude of the members who posted on the thread. Basically they really pee-d me off with their attitude so I closed it and i see they are doing similar things on the new thread.
I do enjoy popping over to lurk, especially on the painting forums, keep up the good work,

all the best
Stu.

I hope this isn't the only way to get updated flyer rules.
If so, they are basically forcing players to pay for them to fix rules?
Or am I misreading everything?

Personally, I would pay $40 to get official rules that increased the points cost on Valks & Scythes and/or turned the Harpy into an efficient anti-flyer.

 tvih wrote:
Why would C:SM getting Stormraven be weird? Yeah, they already have one flier, but guess what, there are other armies with two as well. And from a fluff point of view, what Ultramarines want, Ultramarines get, most likely

EDIT: Another thing that's weird that doesn't get pointed out much. While I wouldn't put it past GW to be lazy and reuse art, the proposed cover pic looks like a lazy and mild photoshopping of the Stormtalon WD entry. That one seems to have flying creatures in the background as well, so I certainly wouldn't put any stock to the wing seen in the pic on its own right.

Pretty sure those monsters were in the WD Codex entry.

I refuse to pay for an errata for an edition that just came out for which I dropped $60 on, just to nerf my own models. This is robbery plain and simple, GW has free ways of updating rules, they're called FAQs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wyomingfox wrote:
Personally, I would pay $40 to get official rules that increased the points cost on Valks & Scythes and/or turned the Harpy into an efficient anti-flyer.

And I'm sure IG and Necron players wouldn't.

IF the book includes price and rule adjustments for units already found in codices, I'm sure they'll get FAQed as well.

And yeah, of course people running cheese units like Vendettas and Scythes don't want their cheese nerfed, I mean heaven forbid them from actually having to work for their victories.

I think people are overreacting to this way too much. The book title is "compendium", or "A collection of concise but detailed information about a particular subject."

I really think it's just going to be regurgitated rules in one place. I'd bet it'll simply have the WD flyers, along with updated entries for the DE/IG/Necron flyers, without point adjustments. For instance the NS entry will say unit type: Flyer. It'll have the rules for Invasion Beams under it's actual entry. Maybe even the last FAQ comment about passengers ignoring crash and burn. Etc etc for the other 5th ed flyers. Maybe in the back it'll have something tacked on at the end like Apoc formations or some Spearhead-like optional game mechanics for dogfighting that nobody will ever play.

I also find it silly that people claim cheese. Most of the big tournaments throughout 6th ed have been won by lists that feature neither Scythes nor Vendettas.

Ah,

but cheese is defined as stuff you don't use (but secretly wish you could)

morgendonner wrote:I also find it silly that people claim cheese. Most of the big tournaments throughout 6th ed have been won by lists that feature neither Scythes nor Vendettas.

Because they're the only cheese out there - not

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:Ah,
but cheese is defined as stuff you don't use (but secretly wish you could)

It's not about can/can't. Heck, I bought two Vendettas, but even with my Templars being underpowered, allying into them seems such a cheesy thing to do that I haven't even summoned the willpower to properly assemble, let alone use, them.

 morgendonner wrote:
I think people are overreacting to this way too much. The book title is "compendium", or "A collection of concise but detailed information about a particular subject."

I really think it's just going to be regurgitated rules in one place. I'd bet it'll simply have the WD flyers, along with updated entries for the DE/IG/Necron flyers, without point adjustments. For instance the NS entry will say unit type: Flyer. It'll have the rules for Invasion Beams under it's actual entry. Maybe even the last FAQ comment about passengers ignoring crash and burn. Etc etc for the other 5th ed flyers. Maybe in the back it'll have something tacked on at the end like Apoc formations or some Spearhead-like optional game mechanics for dogfighting that nobody will ever play.

We already know that at least one rules change will be present, though-- the Stormraven will be available for SM and Black Templars. Will other flyers have changed as well? Time will tell. I currently believe they won't so as to avoid getting my hopes up, but I wouldn't be particularly surprised if GW did use this opportunity to make some adjustments.

The only rules that will change are things that would encourage people to buy more models (i.e. more codexes can use these flyers). Raising point costs on flyers is counter productive to that.

I think the only real purpose is to be able to get the rules for the WD flyers out there in the most expensive way possible. I'd really like to have the book so I can finally point to it and say "yes, my dakka jet DOUBLES its fire" to an incredulous opponent, but I'm not sure I want to pay $40.00 for it.

This book is all about flyer mania, but my problem is, the inequality between books regarding flyers and their counters are so great. I try not to bring my dakkajets without my opponent's permission (or if he's using flyers too). To me, flyers have this huge negative psychological connotation. Having this vendetta flying around wrecking all of my vehicles or a helldrake killing all my troops, really makes the game a lot less fun, because its just something frustrating I really can't do anything about, unless I have a flyer too. (quad guns are not an answer, as any opponent with two working brain cells will just kill it turn 1). So far my orks don't have too much problem, just WAAGH and glance vendettas and storm ravens to death, but my DE just get flattened. (DE flyers are good against ground, but really expensive and don't have enough shots to really counter 'problem flyers.')

I guess the point to this ramble is, I think flyers are a 'problem' for the game right now, and in an ironic fashion, this is just is a product aimed at throwing the problem into a players face and saying "Ha-ha look! Flyers! Don't you wish you owned 3 vendettas???"

Ugh from the latest rumors I doubt there will be any point balancing, which basically means this is a money grab from GW, lame.

Will this book be legal? By that I mean legal as Forge World in other words, "opponents permission". Lets not debate the FW legality issue.

So if one person has the Death from the Skies book and another doesn't, can the player who doesn't have is say "we don't use DftS" can the person with it say they have too use it?

I still say, if it's not in your codex, you shouldn't be using it to be fair since SM and a few other armies get an advantage when some races can't do the same.

It's a compendium. If the entries are written like they were in White Dwarf they have "Official Codex Update" tags or some such. If so then yes, it's legal in all games. It's quite a bit different than Forgeworld in several ways.

 buddha wrote:
Ugh from the latest rumors I doubt there will be any point balancing, which basically means this is a money grab from GW, lame.

Kind of like Wargear, the book that was released before 5th ed and made it pretty much pointless.