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 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
how people hate GW for sodomizing their goat before sacrificing it to Cthulhu in a dark ritual in their basement.

To be fair, this has been my main complaint about GW for years.

I find it amusing that people are ranting and talking about "mandatory" purchase.
You know nothing in this hobby is mandatory right?

I know people who still play 3rd edition. They buy models but haven't bought a rulebook or codex in 10+ years.

 Lorizael wrote:
I find it amusing that people are ranting and talking about "mandatory" purchase.
You know nothing in this hobby is mandatory right?

I know people who still play 3rd edition. They buy models but haven't bought a rulebook or codex in 10+ years.

I don't get it either. Every new Codex is "mandatory" for the people who play that army, but that's something to get excited over.

I would love a mandatory book that fixes broken flyers, provides more interesting dogfight rules, and expands availability for other armies for both flyers and AA. Making it mandatory means they've actually fixed problems instead of just wasting energy on another throw-away supplement no one will use because it isn't "official". I'll pay $40 for a patch if it fixes the game I already have thousands of dollars invested in. Call it extortion, I don't really care at this point as long as they fix things.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Which is why whining before we know anything about the book in question is silly. Sure, if it turns out that GW makes it a "mandatory" update (not like people complain when they release "mandatory" WD rules) then I'd be fine with complaints because, as you noted, that's be annoying. What I absolutely can't stand is the seeming obsession people have of painting the worst scenario possible and then moaning, wailing and gnashing the teeth over a non-issue. Just look at the DA Codex release; tons of people whining about how OP all marines are, how OP it'd be because it's written by Mat Ward, how cheese it'd be because T5 Terminatorz!!!11!!

Turns out both DA and Deathwing Knights are really well-balanced and the book wasn't written by Mat Ward. What's the meme again? Haters gonna hate?

Well, that's a time-honored tradition around these parts. My hobby forum experience goes back to rec.games.miniatures.warhammer in the mid-90s, and I'm pretty confident that nothing fundamentally new about GW's approaches to pricing or game balance has been said in the 17ish years since. But people sure enjoy saying the same stuff over and over again. *shrug* I made my peace with GW long ago. I'd like them to do some things differently, and I still get frustrated by them at times. But they kinda are what they are, and you have to accept that if you're gonna stick around.

Although I would add that Dakka's in one of its "dour" cycles toward all things GW. It's a more negative vibe here than a few years ago (when it had a more positive vibe than in the years just before Yakface took over). IMO.

gorgon wrote:
Well, that's a time-honored tradition around these parts. My hobby forum experience goes back to rec.games.miniatures.warhammer in the mid-90s, and I'm pretty confident that nothing fundamentally new about GW's approaches to pricing or game balance has been said in the 17ish years since.

It is pretty hilarious to use google's date range to find the exact same argument from 10+ years ago. There is truly nothing new under the sun.

On a more positive and cheerful note: BT Stormraven delivering a BT CC Contemptor? I don't care how many points that is, MAKE IT HAPPEN!

Yeah, I'm rather curious at the weird combos that people will come up with now that BT and SM may get the SR.

Nothing BA can't already do. TH/SS Terminators with rage is nice but just like in the BA Codex it'd be a lot of points in one spot.

I'm cautiously optimistic on this, though I'm concerned about them doing some of that LE nonsense again - Crusade of Fire left a really bad taste in my mouth. But we'll see.

I just don't get why they'd release Crusade of Fire with dog fight rules, if they only knew they were going to release them in this book too. Seems daft.

For the love of god please give the harpy some new rules and a model. None of this "I am gonne hunt flyers with S5 vector strikes and blast templates".

I need to start asking local gamers about how they feel about the Durandal Dreadnought......so I can drop it out of a Stormraven onto their heads.

I would have preferred a plastic storm eagle kit. Looks way better and i cannot get hold of.the FW one for a decent price :-(

 kitch102 wrote:
I just don't get why they'd release Crusade of Fire with dog fight rules, if they only knew they were going to release them in this book too. Seems daft.

This is a company that borrows money in order to pay dividends, nothing surprises me.

Funny, how Warseer closed a copy of this thread for being just another made up flyer rumour not worthy enough for their forum.

Zanderchief wrote:
I would have preferred a plastic storm eagle kit. Looks way better and i cannot get hold of.the FW one for a decent price :-(

Without wanting to derail the thread, you said "Forgeworld" and "decent price" in the same sentence... I didn't think those 2 could go together!

Erm ... that's what he said.
OTOH GW has surpassed FW price levels in several instances (and in Australia).

Sadly, the difference between GW and Forgeworld prices are shrinking every day. I had a notion to start a chaos army - the hellblade fighter was only a few pounds more expensive than the helldrake.

Actually, scratch the 'sadly' out - GW will just increase FW's prices more if they notice.

My angus is peppered for all of the Vendettas on eBay.

Sorry I actually meant "at UK price" excuse my stupidity.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Funny, how Warseer closed a copy of this thread for being just another made up flyer rumour not worthy enough for their forum.

It's also funny that BoLS has had two front page "articles" about Flyers and rules for Flyers coming soon.

Ahh the rumor mill.

Wow. I just painfully read the entire thread.....
give me the red pill. some serious doom and gloom prophets in this thread.

anyway, im happy to hear armies potentially getting new flyers and access to already existing ones. I think they're cool on the table and cron air excluded i enjoy playing with them. As far as the vendetta/valk nerf goes...it'll be nice to not hear a loud groan across the table when i place my two down. To me, its much more rewarding winning by skill not because my 130 pt flyer come with 3 TL lascannons.....

Ooh, picture.

 Lorizael wrote:
I find it amusing that people are ranting and talking about "mandatory" purchase.
You know nothing in this hobby is mandatory right?

I know people who still play 3rd edition. They buy models but haven't bought a rulebook or codex in 10+ years.

Good point. Nothing is mandatory.
However, one of the big values playing the Big Fish games is actually finding other players with relative ease.
Even if you do find folks willing to play 3rd, you have the added challenge of the group tracking down older codexes and rulebooks.
Doable but not plug in play like whatever the current edition is.

If you play with 3rd edition rules, you might as well play Void 1.1, Vor or WarPath.
If you have to evangelize and/or provide both sides; rulebooks; etc. ---that's kind of defeating the purpose.

If these are official updates that tournaments expect then the book becomes mandatory for people trying to play a normal game of 40k. Not everyone wants to have to buy additional books to nerf their own models just to be able to play the game.

 Lorizael wrote:
Ooh, picture.

Putting the Derp Talon on the cover has someone lowered my hopes for this book.

 Lorizael wrote:
Ooh, picture.

How official is that?

Where did you find that?

Alright, I hope this ends up being a wide-sweeping flyer rebalance. It will end up being one of those damned-if-they-do-damned-if-they-don't scenarios, but if they err on the side of "do" then we can at least expect a better game in the end. My biggest fear is that it will merely maintain the status quo and that we will have to wait for proper flyer updates with each codex. I know people will bitch and howl about paying for errata but it needs to happen one way or another. I just pray this is the flyer rebalance we need and not just a minor presentation update that keeps rules and prices the same. I guess we'll see when it hits in February. I am kind of getting my hopes up with this one (dangerous, I know) because the game really needs to fix 5th Edition's pseudo-flyers.

privateer4hire wrote:

 Lorizael wrote:
I find it amusing that people are ranting and talking about "mandatory" purchase.
You know nothing in this hobby is mandatory right?

I know people who still play 3rd edition. They buy models but haven't bought a rulebook or codex in 10+ years.

Good point. Nothing is mandatory.
However, one of the big values playing the Big Fish games is actually finding other players with relative ease.
Even if you do find folks willing to play 3rd, you have the added challenge of the group tracking down older codexes and rulebooks.
Doable but not plug in play like whatever the current edition is.

If you play with 3rd edition rules, you might as well play Void 1.1, Vor or WarPath.
If you have to evangelize and/or provide both sides; rulebooks; etc. ---that's kind of defeating the purpose.

My two buddies and my wife are about the only people I can play a game of 40K with, and it's all with 3rd edition codexes and the 4th edition Rulebook. I can see the draw of the latest editions, but why abandon such a big pile of material that I paid good money for? Other than with one of the two buddies, I also provide the codexes and armies for both sides. Doesn't stop it from being fun, and lets me collect several armies at once.

If I like any of the new vehicles, I can just use the Chapter Approved VDR rules, which are outstanding for friendly games.

Hell, just two days ago on Amazon, I bought the Dark Angels 3rd ed codex to add to my 3rd ed collection, as well as the Eldar 2nd ed codex and the 2nd ed Rulebook and Wargear book, because someday I hope to play some small 2nd ed games. All four cost me 25 dollars.

 Ouze wrote:

 Lorizael wrote:
Ooh, picture.

Putting the Derp Talon on the cover has someone lowered my hopes for this book.

As does the word 'compendium' while sparking a whiff of nostalgia, it doesn't bode well for the promise of new material.

Doesn't rule it out, but it doesn't suggest it either.