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 Grey Templar wrote:
Its also tough since manually cycling the gun often won't show that it doesn't have the energy to cycle since you will always be pulling it back to the full extent of its cycle while a real cycle may not.

Yes, but if it's a bolt face or feed ramp, that would show up.

One could also short-stroke chambering and see what happens.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Just saw this. Springfield Armory is importing a gun called the Kuna. It's an MP5 looking subgun with reported incredible reliability. MSRP of under $650, $25 mags. 9mm, 40S&w, and likely 10mm coming later.

Definitely looks interesting.

Though I would say it looks more like the UMP, though thats just the MP5s less famous younger brother.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
Just saw this. Springfield Armory is importing a gun called the Kuna. It's an MP5 looking subgun with reported incredible reliability. MSRP of under $650, $25 mags. 9mm, 40S&w, and likely 10mm coming later.

Definitely looks interesting.

Though I would say it looks more like the UMP, though thats just the MP5s less famous younger brother.

I would like to make one correction. Looks like my initial source on this got the price wrong. It will be more like $950. Oh, and I forgot to mention it's roller delayed blowback. It'll run nice and smooth.

It looks really promising. Nice to see a non HK delayed roller gun, especially one with a pic rail already on it. The low profile mounts for the HK/clone guns aren't very good and the claw style mounts are expensive and harder to get. The sights are ingenious as well (pistol sights in the down position, flip up for rifle style peep sight). The base model being in .40 is a little weird, not many new guns are being made in that caliber.

I have a couple hk clones (91, 93) with milled uppers with integral, full length picatinny rails. They seem okay to me.

My brother restored my grandfather's 22. Walnut grips instead of mother of pearl and added bluing. More love than a cheap pistol like this probably deserves, but it's a sentimental item.

Mod edit - please do not attach non-wargaming images directly to your posts

Well, deserves the care anyway!

What is the story behind it? It was his personal pistol for protection/sport? Needed for work? Kept in the home? Always curious about these sorts of family personal items. My own Grandfather was remarkably tight lipped with us grandkids. Only found out at his funeral for example he was the sole survivor of the original men and women in his medical unit who formed in Africa (I assume as part of the KAR) and fought through to Burma. Only knew he had gone to there as he remarked about not liking Chittagong when I said I was going there for a while. He had simply said he was a radiographer to us. He had made an awful lot of pieces of furniture and paintings, all with various impulses behind them that we were completely oblivious of until various relatives started speaking about them.

My grandfather did many jobs over his lifetime, and this was an incredibly cheap .22 that he carried with him literally every day, whether on the logging truck, his security job later in life, or even when he was fishing. Heard a story once about him smoking a possum on an overnight catfishing excursion.


And it's a Rohm RG10

https://www.crossbreedholsters.com/blog/the-rohm-rg10-the-worst-carry-gun-ever/?srsltid=AfmBOorkznrQ-MsjKM35QN3Q_R0-ZtK_lPNXYzZl6DoupN0pZG_R5P5p

Frankly that review would make that gun sought after

Sometimes it's a contest to see how much you can hot rod a clinker

 Just Tony wrote:
Sometimes it's a contest to see how much you can hot rod a clinker

Some of the most expensive collectibles are things like paper dolls that had zero longevity.

As for that piece, an obvious reason for it to look bigger than it needed to be was deterrence. When drawn, it will look like something more robust, and if pointed at you, even the modest muzzle will look quite intimidating.

I don't own any ..22 short (though I have some ammo for it) but I have an Iver-Johnson .32 short that is probably a lot like this in terms of energy and recoil.

To put it another way, with guns like this, you can understand why .32 long was such an upgrade!

Family history is definitely a bonus as well.

 Just Tony wrote:
Sometimes it's a contest to see how much you can hot rod a clinker

I hope there is a paper out there, or if not someone writes one, on how US firearm ownership has changed with the economic headwinds. The general economy and peoples wealth has changed radically over the last hundred years along with the cost of and availability of ammunition and firearms. Would be fascinating to see how people prioritised firearm quality, ammo lethality (perceived), practice over the years and how tied it was to economic means (would you make cutbacks elsewhere for a reliable piece, would you simply get what could be casually afforded, would practice suffer disproportionately when times were tight etc.).

So, other than generally inadvisable for self defence, does keeping a clip or magazine only partially filled cause damage or out? Like making the spring wonky?

For your spares, do you only load them up when you’re off to the range etc?

In general keeping springs under constant compression will eventually collapse them. It's why you're not supposed to store your toys with missiles in the launchers.

 Just Tony wrote:
In general keeping springs under constant compression will eventually collapse them. It's why you're not supposed to store your toys with missiles in the launchers.

This is actually a myth.

Any spring always has a range where it travels between being compressed or relaxed and within that range it doesn't matter where it rests. The only thing that wears it out is how many times it has cycled in that range(so the lifetime of the spring will be measured in how many full cycles it makes) OR if it is compressed or hyper-extended beyond that range which will permanently deform it.

Magazine springs are pretty much always well within their possible ranges, so as long as you don't load more rounds than the magazine is supposed to hold you cannot damage the spring by leaving the magazine loaded.

Actually, loading and unloaded would do more "damage" to a spring than simply leaving it empty or full. Though the lifetime of any magazine spring will be measured in the hundreds of thousands of cycles so really it doesn't matter.


The reason toys often advise not to leave them under tensions is because the springs in toys are garbage. They'll either be outside the range for that spring OR simply not rated for very many cycles and they'll wear out fast.

Should add there is a practical reason to keep ammunition separate from magazines and that's simple inventory management. If you are concerned with age, condition and storage of ammunition, having a bunch left in magazines is both a logistics headache and a potential theft/shrinkage issue. Its interesting in the UK at least a lot of illegally held pistols and ammunition come from sales from those in the SF community who have more loosely monitored access to such things.

Yes but that hardly applies to people storing stuff at home.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
In general keeping springs under constant compression will eventually collapse them. It's why you're not supposed to store your toys with missiles in the launchers.

This is actually a myth.

Any spring always has a range where it travels between being compressed or relaxed and within that range it doesn't matter where it rests. The only thing that wears it out is how many times it has cycled in that range(so the lifetime of the spring will be measured in how many full cycles it makes) OR if it is compressed or hyper-extended beyond that range which will permanently deform it.

Magazine springs are pretty much always well within their possible ranges, so as long as you don't load more rounds than the magazine is supposed to hold you cannot damage the spring by leaving the magazine loaded.

Actually, loading and unloaded would do more "damage" to a spring than simply leaving it empty or full. Though the lifetime of any magazine spring will be measured in the hundreds of thousands of cycles so really it doesn't matter.


The reason toys often advise not to leave them under tensions is because the springs in toys are garbage. They'll either be outside the range for that spring OR simply not rated for very many cycles and they'll wear out fast.

With my metallurgy hat on, creep is a deformation effect that happens even when the metal is in the elastic range. A spring under stress will be creeping at a faster or slower rate. I don't know how that factors into magazine spring design specifically though.

Looks like someone is making a Steyr Aug in 12 Gauge now. Interesting choice.

 Flinty wrote:
With my metallurgy hat on, creep is a deformation effect that happens even when the metal is in the elastic range. A spring under stress will be creeping at a faster or slower rate. I don't know how that factors into magazine spring design specifically though.

A well-made magazine spring will outlast its original owner. I've found that recoil springs have a shorter lifespan, but still one measured in decades.

That being said, springs aren't serialized and if one buys some vintage firearms, "refreshing" the spring is a good idea because they can also be weakened by rust, etc.

As to socio-economic popularity/purpose of firearms, I think a big factor is simply the lack of competing designs. Auto-loaders only came into their own about a century or so ago, so for most people it was a revolver, and there were the premium brands (Colt and S&W) and the lower-tier like H&R or Iver Johnson who lacked the fit and finish, but nevertheless worked reasonably well.

Another factor was the resale market and obsolete designs, such as blackpowder cartridge revolvers vs smokeless. The fact that these items are still being passed down and popping up on places like Gunbroker show just how pervasive and popular they were.

 Flinty wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
In general keeping springs under constant compression will eventually collapse them. It's why you're not supposed to store your toys with missiles in the launchers.

This is actually a myth.

Any spring always has a range where it travels between being compressed or relaxed and within that range it doesn't matter where it rests. The only thing that wears it out is how many times it has cycled in that range(so the lifetime of the spring will be measured in how many full cycles it makes) OR if it is compressed or hyper-extended beyond that range which will permanently deform it.

Magazine springs are pretty much always well within their possible ranges, so as long as you don't load more rounds than the magazine is supposed to hold you cannot damage the spring by leaving the magazine loaded.

Actually, loading and unloaded would do more "damage" to a spring than simply leaving it empty or full. Though the lifetime of any magazine spring will be measured in the hundreds of thousands of cycles so really it doesn't matter.


The reason toys often advise not to leave them under tensions is because the springs in toys are garbage. They'll either be outside the range for that spring OR simply not rated for very many cycles and they'll wear out fast.

With my metallurgy hat on, creep is a deformation effect that happens even when the metal is in the elastic range. A spring under stress will be creeping at a faster or slower rate. I don't know how that factors into magazine spring design specifically though.

Technically yes, however its so small for the spring steel that is used for magazines relative to the loads they experience that it is practically zero. Maybe a few years off the life of something that will be usable for half a millennia. Especially considering how well within the elastic range magazine springs are kept. They aren't pushed even close to their maximums.

The only case I can think of where leaving a magazine loaded is a bad idea is with magazine-fed shotguns, since plastic hulls will deform if subjected to constant stress. The magazine springs are a non-issue though.

Wait.

Magazine fed shotguns?

The only one I can think of is the drum fed one that I saw before I saw it put to good use in SG-1

Possibly, but shotgun mags seem to be much lower pressure compared to others that it might cancel out.

Unless maybe they get hot sitting in the sun or something.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Wait.

Magazine fed shotguns?

The only one I can think of is the drum fed one that I saw before I saw it put to good use in SG-1

Most shotguns are mag fed. Some just have the mag come in as part of the gun

There are tons of detachable mag-fed shotguns.

You can get AR15 12-gauge uppers which you can slap on any AR15 and use mags which fit a normal AR magwell but hold 12 gauge. There is the Russian Saiga, which is an AK shotgun. And tons of shotguns which are AR15/AR10 based but aren't technically compatible.

Its easy to overlook them in a photo since they can easily be mistaken for an AR, or just an AR with a larger caliber since the mags will be a little different.

I have a DDI-12. Looks like an AK-AR hybrid and uses Saiga Mags. I do like the adjustable gas setting.

I also have some Chinese shotgun I bought from Brownells. I can't remember the brand right now, but it sold new for $149, it was on a 20% clearance, AND I had a 10% off coupon. I ended up getting it for under $100 plus shipping. It came with 2-3 round mags, but I bought 2-5 rounders and an 8-rounder. Yes, it's heavy, a bit ugly, and cheaply made. But for $100 what can you expect? I still haven't shot it as it was shipped in cosmoline, and in 5 years I haven't worked up enough motivation to clean it out. Tempted to torture test it to failure for Youtube.

If you eher do, send me the link I'd looove to see that.

Might be hard to do a proper torture test with only 5 and 8 round mags.

The main way firearms fail in a torture test is from heating the gun up faster than it can cool which causes more damage than that same number of rounds fired in a more reasonable duration(IE: a gun that fires 1k rounds in 1 minute will be damaged way more from that than one which fired 1k rounds over a couple hours). And with that few, and such low capacity, it might not be possible to physically feed it fast enough to do that.

That said, shotgun torture tests would be interesting. You might have some failures that wouldn't happen in other firearms, like a shell melting in the chamber. Maybe even cooking off without pulling the trigger as the plastic is way less heat resistant than a metal casing.

On the otherhand, I just dont see it warping the barrel or anything like some other firearms could. Its going to have a lot more surface area and less heat buildup relative to other guns.

Might be like when the US was testing the Maxim gun(I think). IIRC they fired it for like 2 weeks or something continuously, it never failed, and they only stopped the test because they ran out of ammo.