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When 1911 carrying often the safety would fully or partially disengage. With the more "copetition style" safeties commonly found on 1911s now I've heard this was a common problem.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
When 1911 carrying often the safety would fully or partially disengage. With the more "copetition style" safeties commonly found on 1911s now I've heard this was a common problem.
The safety on a Shield is really tiny...I haven't found that it engages itself.
But compare this:
To another pocket pistol like this:
The safety on the 238 is definitely bigger...probably has a greater chance of turning off. The other issue is the trigger...hammer is always going to be less safe in a pocket than striker-fired. The force required to actuate a Glock or M&P trigger is actually pretty substantial compared to a single action pistol.
When 1911 carrying often the safety would fully or partially disengage. With the more "copetition style" safeties commonly found on 1911s now I've heard this was a common problem.
Not yet, it has a glossy finish on it and really doesn't want to move- I don't suspect it ever will. Though the sig p238 is just a sub compact 1911. My full size 1911 safety is really really easy to set off - it had ridges and move a lot easier. The 1911 grip safety is impossible to shoot without gripping the pistol though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/30 17:04:32
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
When 1911 carrying often the safety would fully or partially disengage. With the more "copetition style" safeties commonly found on 1911s now I've heard this was a common problem.
Not yet, it has a glossy finish on it and really doesn't want to move- I don't suspect it ever will. Though the sig p238 is just a sub compact 1911. My full size 1911 safety is really really easy to set off - it had ridges and move a lot easier. The 1911 grip safety is impossible to shoot without gripping the pistol though.
This is true. Thats why I wasn't that worried about it, when it occurred (plus it was holstered). Frankly the reason I liked the active safety was for when I unholstered it for normal non shooting reasons (end of night etc.). It was an added bit of security.
What drove me away from 1911 for carry was that I might forget to disengage the safety when under stress-especially as I was using a pistol without an active safety for competitions and never worried about the safety when practicing. I saw two experienced guys do that in my first club matches. After that I switched.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
I never use the safety on my 1911 or any other handgun. Obviously, it's a matter of personal preference, but I prefer to carry in condition 3: the way I see it, either it's not shootin' time, so no round needs to be chambered,or it's shooting time, in which case I have practiced racking the slide as part of the draw.
I don't always see eye to eye with the Israeli government, but I am in total agreement with them on their personal firearms methodology with regards to carrying and drawing.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
Ouze wrote: I never use the safety on my 1911 or any other handgun. Obviously, it's a matter of personal preference, but I prefer to carry in condition 3: the way I see it, either it's not shootin' time, so no round needs to be chambered,or it's shooting time, in which case I have practiced racking the slide as part of the draw.
I don't always see eye to eye with the Israeli government, but I am in total agreement with them on their personal firearms methodology with regards to carrying and drawing.
I can understand that. At the house all firerarms in "ready" (easy open safes etc.) are like that. My wife is like that too.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Ouze wrote: I never use the safety on my 1911 or any other handgun. Obviously, it's a matter of personal preference, but I prefer to carry in condition 3: the way I see it, either it's not shootin' time, so no round needs to be chambered,or it's shooting time, in which case I have practiced racking the slide as part of the draw.
I don't always see eye to eye with the Israeli government, but I am in total agreement with them on their personal firearms methodology with regards to carrying and drawing.
I can see that - raking a slide isn't difficult but it does require two hands. Hopefully you'll have access to both hands in the case you need to draw your weapon.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
I carry in such a way that all I have to do is pull the trigger. No cocking, racking or manual safeties for me. Draw and fire. Less steps, less complications, less chances for murphy to screw me over.
But to each their own. It all comes down to training and muscle memory in the end.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/30 18:12:33
Alex C wrote: I carry in such a way that all I have to do is pull the trigger. No cocking, racking or manual safeties for me. Draw and fire. Less steps, less complications, less chances for murphy to screw me over.
But to each their own. It all comes down to training and muscle memory in the end.
This.
The "Israeli method" is a product of their specific situation - you carry a gun not because YOU are worried about being targeted, but because you want to be able to intervene in case there's a terrorist attacking people generally. Crime is exceptionally rare compared to terrorism. The potential for negligent discharges outweights the need to employ your gun immediately as you're unlikely to be the sole target of a terrorist.
In the US, you usually carry a gun because you're concerned about being targeted. Crime is far more common than terrorism, and you need to be able to employ your gun as quickly as possible against a bad guy who is targeting you specifically, and has all the tactical advantages he can muster.
Having been "trained in the Israeli method of carry" I can tell you that I NEVER use it in the US. A gun without a round in the chamber is orders of magnitude less useful than a gun with a round in the chamber, across the possible situations you might encounter and need to use it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/30 18:18:37
When 1911 carrying often the safety would fully or partially disengage. With the more "copetition style" safeties commonly found on 1911s now I've heard this was a common problem.
The safety on a Shield is really tiny...I haven't found that it engages itself.
But compare this:
To another pocket pistol like this:
The safety on the 238 is definitely bigger...probably has a greater chance of turning off. The other issue is the trigger...hammer is always going to be less safe in a pocket than striker-fired. The force required to actuate a Glock or M&P trigger is actually pretty substantial compared to a single action pistol.
not to mention the M&P has a built in trigger safety as well, so the trigger wont pull unless its a finger on it.
personally im in the on the hip camp, but thats mostly because I cant buy one of those sheilds as they are too small to be legal up here unfortunately
Also I can only carry in my home or on a range, so limited use there too lol.
Ouze wrote: I never use the safety on my 1911 or any other handgun. Obviously, it's a matter of personal preference, but I prefer to carry in condition 3: the way I see it, either it's not shootin' time, so no round needs to be chambered,or it's shooting time, in which case I have practiced racking the slide as part of the draw.
I don't always see eye to eye with the Israeli government, but I am in total agreement with them on their personal firearms methodology with regards to carrying and drawing.
I can see that - raking a slide isn't difficult but it does require two hands. Hopefully you'll have access to both hands in the case you need to draw your weapon.
wait, so you dont do this drill?
IM def not as fast as this guy, first time I didn't even notice he racked it, but once you learn how to hook the sights on something, ESP if you wear jeans, its not hard to do it (though a bit slower then the vid OBS)
some of our courses go through stuff like that in the drill, carry a few ammo cans, sprint, then draw and rack off of hand or one hand, from the ground, ect.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/01/30 18:30:09
But conversely it means fewer levels of protection from murphy causing either a negligent or accidental discharge. I've heard a couple stories from individuals with decades experience carrying suffering a brain fart at exactly the wrong time and having it happen. It's easy to train yourself to deactivate a safety when you draw, and the odds of something going wrong the one time in your whole life you really need it is very low. You have a lot more chances for something to go wrong on everyday carry if you only have a single point of failure.
I am the Hammer. I am the right hand of my Emperor. I am the tip of His spear, I am the gauntlet about His fist. I am the woes of daemonkind. I am the Hammer.
I think there are benefits and drawbacks to any style.
You say that it works well for you, but have you ever actually had to use it? Until then, you won't really know if it works well.
One of the best ways to test it is drill variants on the 21 ft rule, and in force on force training. It's either that, or just wait until you actually do need to use it, and failing means death or grave bodily harm.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/30 22:54:43
NuggzTheNinja wrote: You say that it works well for you, but have you ever actually had to use it? Until then, you won't really know if it works well.
Well, I haven't put one through my thigh or my foot when drawing or holstering... so yeah, it's working OK for me so far.
I'm not Billy the Kid, either in skill level or in likelihood of deadly force encounters. If there were a situation where the extra half-second would mean the difference between life and death, frankly, I'm probably going to die anyway.
The 21 foot drills are a good idea though.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/30 23:20:57
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
DarkLink wrote: But conversely it means fewer levels of protection from murphy causing either a negligent or accidental discharge. I've heard a couple stories from individuals with decades experience carrying suffering a brain fart at exactly the wrong time and having it happen. It's easy to train yourself to deactivate a safety when you draw, and the odds of something going wrong the one time in your whole life you really need it is very low. You have a lot more chances for something to go wrong on everyday carry if you only have a single point of failure.
It may be easy to train yourself to deactivate a safety, but the first that thing happens in a stressful situation (which is life or death) is the loss of fine motor control, which would be manipulating anything on your firearms with your fingers. The instructor I have (probably one of the best in my state, highly recommended), travels the world most of the year doing personal security for celebrities and the such. He teaches (and pretty much requires) that you forget about using a safety and slide releases, as in the real situation you will never be able to work them.
Obviously if you are trained and experienced you could work things, but lets be honest of the people on DakkaDakka (and the internet in general), they are not highly trained nor experienced. And if they were, they probably wouldn't be talking about it on a forum.
NuggzTheNinja wrote: IMO you're fine pocket carrying with just a safety, as long as you're careful not to put anything else in that pocket.
My favorite carry setup is actually my Shield in the pocket, no holster at all, safety on. I can be standing in a crowded place with a full firing grip on the pistol, and nobody even notices. Talk about cutting down your draw time...
This is one of the big reasons why pocket carry is my preferred method. I always use a pocket holster though.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
When 1911 carrying often the safety would fully or partially disengage. With the more "copetition style" safeties commonly found on 1911s now I've heard this was a common problem.
Ive had it happen with an ambi safety on a 1911. A change in holsters took care of that though.
Anyone been keeping up with the toys from shot show? No idea what to thunk of the B.O.B.B.. On one hand it's a neat idea, on the other it seems like a great way to lose close to a grand. Then again, there's something to be said for having a 3A plate between a bad guy and your nuts.
If y'all don't know what I'm on about, check out the V.S.O Guns channel on YouTube. Sorry I didn't post the link myself, but it's a bitch doing it with a phone.
Stonebeard wrote: Anyone been keeping up with the toys from shot show? No idea what to thunk of the B.O.B.B.. On one hand it's a neat idea, on the other it seems like a great way to lose close to a grand. Then again, there's something to be said for having a 3A plate between a bad guy and your nuts.
If y'all don't know what I'm on about, check out the V.S.O Guns channel on YouTube. Sorry I didn't post the link myself, but it's a bitch doing it with a phone.
Meh. Add more weight, give me something else that can get tangled up with the rest of the kit, and seems more like a gimmick than useful, PLUS cost me in the area of a grand...nah....
Stonebeard wrote: Anyone been keeping up with the toys from shot show? No idea what to thunk of the B.O.B.B.. On one hand it's a neat idea, on the other it seems like a great way to lose close to a grand. Then again, there's something to be said for having a 3A plate between a bad guy and your nuts.
If y'all don't know what I'm on about, check out the V.S.O Guns channel on YouTube. Sorry I didn't post the link myself, but it's a bitch doing it with a phone.
Interesting idea - it's a Murse (i.e., Man Purse) that folds open to produce ballistic protection.
I like the concept, and it's something I've toyed about with doing to my work back pack (this is not my idea mind you - I've seen ballistic backpacks before). The idea being you buy an old level IIIa vest from Bulletproofme.com or somewhere, remove the back portion of it, then slip it into the laptop sleeve of your backpack. Instant IIIa protection if you need it and it protects your torso (turn it around front) rather than your stomach and hip.
The idea with the backpack isn't so much that you wear it, but that it's portable COVER that you can actually set down somewhere and shoot from. I work at a university (an engineering school actually...with some very interesting characters) and so the potential for school shootings is there. My old classroom was at the end of a hallway in the basement, and the only way out was a long hallway to a staircase to the first floor. Talk about a fatal funnel...in that situation, barricading the door and getting behind some portable cover would actually be a pretty slick move.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/03 16:58:33
Stonebeard wrote: Anyone been keeping up with the toys from shot show? No idea what to thunk of the B.O.B.B.. On one hand it's a neat idea, on the other it seems like a great way to lose close to a grand. Then again, there's something to be said for having a 3A plate between a bad guy and your nuts.
If y'all don't know what I'm on about, check out the V.S.O Guns channel on YouTube. Sorry I didn't post the link myself, but it's a bitch doing it with a phone.
Interesting idea - it's a Murse (i.e., Man Purse) that folds open to produce ballistic protection.
I like the concept, and it's something I've toyed about with doing to my work back pack (this is not my idea mind you - I've seen ballistic backpacks before). The idea being you buy an old level IIIa vest from Bulletproofme.com or somewhere, remove the back portion of it, then slip it into the laptop sleeve of your backpack. Instant IIIa protection if you need it and it protects your torso (turn it around front) rather than your stomach and hip.
The idea with the backpack isn't so much that you wear it, but that it's portable COVER that you can actually set down somewhere and shoot from. I work at a university (an engineering school actually...with some very interesting characters) and so the potential for school shootings is there. My old classroom was at the end of a hallway in the basement, and the only way out was a long hallway to a staircase to the first floor. Talk about a fatal funnel...in that situation, barricading the door and getting behind some portable cover would actually be a pretty slick move.
But will you really get a chance to pull the straps, get it into place etc in time with the BOBB? The backpack I can see working, but again, it seems a bit clumsy. But if you can make it work, Im all for freedom of choice
Stonebeard wrote: Anyone been keeping up with the toys from shot show? No idea what to thunk of the B.O.B.B.. On one hand it's a neat idea, on the other it seems like a great way to lose close to a grand. Then again, there's something to be said for having a 3A plate between a bad guy and your nuts.
If y'all don't know what I'm on about, check out the V.S.O Guns channel on YouTube. Sorry I didn't post the link myself, but it's a bitch doing it with a phone.
Interesting idea - it's a Murse (i.e., Man Purse) that folds open to produce ballistic protection.
I like the concept, and it's something I've toyed about with doing to my work back pack (this is not my idea mind you - I've seen ballistic backpacks before). The idea being you buy an old level IIIa vest from Bulletproofme.com or somewhere, remove the back portion of it, then slip it into the laptop sleeve of your backpack. Instant IIIa protection if you need it and it protects your torso (turn it around front) rather than your stomach and hip.
The idea with the backpack isn't so much that you wear it, but that it's portable COVER that you can actually set down somewhere and shoot from. I work at a university (an engineering school actually...with some very interesting characters) and so the potential for school shootings is there. My old classroom was at the end of a hallway in the basement, and the only way out was a long hallway to a staircase to the first floor. Talk about a fatal funnel...in that situation, barricading the door and getting behind some portable cover would actually be a pretty slick move.
But will you really get a chance to pull the straps, get it into place etc in time with the BOBB? The backpack I can see working, but again, it seems a bit clumsy. But if you can make it work, Im all for freedom of choice
Probably not! That's my beef with the Murse. With the backpack, unless it was one of MY students doing the shooting, I'd probably hear shots down the hall or upstairs more likely, and have a good amount of time. If it was one of mine I'm probably F'ed since I don't carry on my person while teaching. Don't need to be printing while I'm writing on the board or lecturing.
Yeah, getting the time to get the system into place is one of my two big issues with the B.O.B.B., the other being the idea of my firearm being anywhere but affixed to my belt or in my hand; giving up control of a loaded weapon sounds like a good way to get yourself or someone else killed. In a situation that would require the use of a firearm, getting those plates into place sounds like wasted effort and time. Now, if you need to defend a fixed point like in a home invasion scenario, it could be a great idea, but I would think a standard plate carrier would be more effective.
Beyond just the B.O.B.B, though, there were quite a few fun toys that poped up. I, myself, have been salivating over the ACE for months now. At least where guns are concerned, I have to say that I fething love the Israelis.
Oh, and Kalashnikov USA announcing plans for a US factory. Pretty neat.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/03 18:10:58
Stonebeard wrote: Anyone been keeping up with the toys from shot show? No idea what to thunk of the B.O.B.B.. On one hand it's a neat idea, on the other it seems like a great way to lose close to a grand. Then again, there's something to be said for having a 3A plate between a bad guy and your nuts.
If y'all don't know what I'm on about, check out the V.S.O Guns channel on YouTube. Sorry I didn't post the link myself, but it's a bitch doing it with a phone.
Interesting idea - it's a Murse (i.e., Man Purse) that folds open to produce ballistic protection.
I like the concept, and it's something I've toyed about with doing to my work back pack (this is not my idea mind you - I've seen ballistic backpacks before). The idea being you buy an old level IIIa vest from Bulletproofme.com or somewhere, remove the back portion of it, then slip it into the laptop sleeve of your backpack. Instant IIIa protection if you need it and it protects your torso (turn it around front) rather than your stomach and hip.
The idea with the backpack isn't so much that you wear it, but that it's portable COVER that you can actually set down somewhere and shoot from. I work at a university (an engineering school actually...with some very interesting characters) and so the potential for school shootings is there. My old classroom was at the end of a hallway in the basement, and the only way out was a long hallway to a staircase to the first floor. Talk about a fatal funnel...in that situation, barricading the door and getting behind some portable cover would actually be a pretty slick move.
But will you really get a chance to pull the straps, get it into place etc in time with the BOBB? The backpack I can see working, but again, it seems a bit clumsy. But if you can make it work, Im all for freedom of choice
Probably not! That's my beef with the Murse. With the backpack, unless it was one of MY students doing the shooting, I'd probably hear shots down the hall or upstairs more likely, and have a good amount of time. If it was one of mine I'm probably F'ed since I don't carry on my person while teaching. Don't need to be printing while I'm writing on the board or lecturing.
IF your campus allows faculty carry, a sport coat is your friend
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stonebeard wrote: Yeah, getting the time to get the system into place is one of my two big issues with the B.O.B.B., the other being the idea of my firearm being anywhere but affixed to my belt or in my hand; giving up control of a loaded weapon sounds like a good way to get yourself or someone else killed. In a situation that would require the use of a firearm, getting those plates into place sounds like wasted effort and time. Now, if you need to defend a fixed point like in a home invasion scenario, it could be a great idea, but I would think a standard plate carrier would be more effective.
Beyond just the B.O.B.B, though, there were quite a few fun toys that poped up. I, myself, have been salivating over the ACE for months now. At least where guns are concerned, I have to say that I fething love the Israelis.
Oh, and Kalashnikov USA announcing plans for a US factory. Pretty neat.
The Galil!!
We've had some inquiries on shipping dates already, I myself cant wait.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/03 18:48:36
We've had some inquiries on shipping dates already, I myself cant wait.
IWI quality, 5.56 compatible, modern ergos and AK reliability in a dead sexy package. What's not to love about it? I'm just hoping the 23 stays below $1500.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/04 05:22:44
We've had some inquiries on shipping dates already, I myself cant wait.
IWI quality, 5.56 compatible, modern ergos and AK reliability in a dead sexy package. What's not to love about it? I'm just hoping the 23 stays below $1500.
I don't know if these complaints extend to the ACE, but guys who were issued Galils (mostly reservist tankers) used to complain about the safety (it's goofy...check it out closely) and the sights, which don't necessarily return to zero when you return the top cover. It also uses AK-style magazines which may be a little slower to reload than AR-style magazines.