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Not a gun owner, but I just had a rather off putting experience and wanted some serious input. Went to see my brother-in-law who I don't really get along for his birthday. He brought out a new pistol his grandfather had given him in a simple holster and passed it to me (he'd already shown it to 4 or 5 other people). I believe it was a single action revolver, like below.

After handing it to me (I hadn't taken it out of the holster), he made an offhand remark that it was loaded. I immediately gave it back. Was this in poor form on his part? I feel like when handling firearms, telling someone it's loaded is the first thing you should do.

Always assume a firearm is loaded.

 Breotan wrote:
Always assume a firearm is loaded.

This.

And the first thing to do when handling a firearm is to check condition and make safe.

Typically when handing a firearm to someone you should unload and make safe before handing it over, so yes, poor form on his part.

 kronk wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:


I guess the Midwest is just more conductive to growing large deer.

This is true. In Louisiana and Texas, the deer are much smaller than what I am seeing in IL and WI.

One of the tank gunners in one of my tank platoons came in one Monday morning after going hunting on post (Ft Hood) happy he had bagged a deer that came in at about 75 pounds dressed out. I told him I had dogs bigger than that.

Deer on post were small, reminded me of the tiny deer in the everglades down in FL.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Not a gun owner, but I just had a rather off putting experience and wanted some serious input. Went to see my brother-in-law who I don't really get along for his birthday. He brought out a new pistol his grandfather had given him in a simple holster and passed it to me (he'd already shown it to 4 or 5 other people). I believe it was a single action revolver, like below.

After handing it to me (I hadn't taken it out of the holster), he made an offhand remark that it was loaded. I immediately gave it back. Was this in poor form on his part? I feel like when handling firearms, telling someone it's loaded is the first thing you should do.

yeah, that would be exceedingly poor form. Like, guns 101 is always safety check a firearm to ensure it is unloaded when handling and especially before handing it to someone else, and dont pass loaded firearms around if you're just showing them off.

 Breotan wrote:
Always assume a firearm is loaded.

I understand that, but if I'm browsing Reddit and someone just hands me something, 90% of the time I wouldn't expect it to be a gun. Hence why i handed it back almost immediately.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Not a gun owner, but I just had a rather off putting experience and wanted some serious input. Went to see my brother-in-law who I don't really get along for his birthday. He brought out a new pistol his grandfather had given him in a simple holster and passed it to me (he'd already shown it to 4 or 5 other people). I believe it was a single action revolver, like below.

After handing it to me (I hadn't taken it out of the holster), he made an offhand remark that it was loaded. I immediately gave it back. Was this in poor form on his part? I feel like when handling firearms, telling someone it's loaded is the first thing you should do.

yeah, that would be exceedingly poor form. Like, guns 101 is always safety check a firearm to ensure it is unloaded when handling and especially before handing it to someone else, and dont pass loaded firearms around if you're just showing them off.

Cheers. It also bothers me because he is planning on open carry and we have a 2 year old. The wife and I are going to have a talk with him and his wife and lay down some ground rules, like A) don't bring it in our house and B) please keep it locked up when around our child.

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
Always assume a firearm is loaded.

This.

And the first thing to do when handling a firearm is to check condition and make safe.

Typically when handing a firearm to someone you should unload and make safe before handing it over, so yes, poor form on his part.

Even when I'm hanging out with people I know and trust, this is still the procedure we use. I was visiting my dad and he wanted to see my gun. I took it out of the holster, cleared it, checked it, handed it over to him grip first with the slide open, he checked to make sure it was clear (doesn't matter that he just watched me clear it), looked it over, played with it, gave it back to me the same way I did, I checked to make sure it was clear when I took it (making it the 3rd time in a couple minutes that it has been checked), reloaded and holstered it.

If people know their way around guns, they should never act offended by "trust, but verify".

 Breotan wrote:
Always assume a firearm is loaded.

Yup. The four rules exist for a reason.

 d-usa wrote:

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
Always assume a firearm is loaded.

This.

And the first thing to do when handling a firearm is to check condition and make safe.

Typically when handing a firearm to someone you should unload and make safe before handing it over, so yes, poor form on his part.

Even when I'm hanging out with people I know and trust, this is still the procedure we use. I was visiting my dad and he wanted to see my gun. I took it out of the holster, cleared it, checked it, handed it over to him grip first with the slide open, he checked to make sure it was clear (doesn't matter that he just watched me clear it), looked it over, played with it, gave it back to me the same way I did, I checked to make sure it was clear when I took it (making it the 3rd time in a couple minutes that it has been checked), reloaded and holstered it.

If people know their way around guns, they should never act offended by "trust, but verify".

This is exactly how it should always be handled. Kudos


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:
Speaking of black powder rifles, anyone every build those self assembly kits? I've towed around the idea for a couple years on getting one but I don't want to spend a few hundred bucks and find out they are junk or worse.

I built one a couple of years ago. Percussion cap kentucky rifle. Super accurate even with round balls. Highly recommended.

Brand? I just don't want to spend the money and especially my time assembling the rifle just to then find out is a junker from the start

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
These questions about a particular gun cropped up on another thread, and because I didn't want to drag it OT, and because other dakka members have better gun knowledge than myself, I thought I would ask these questions here:

Pistols from the Napoleonic war/blackpowder era :

What's the average number of shots a trained soldier could fire per minute with a pistol? (assume dry, perfect conditions).

Same question, but with the soldier on horseback. Any difference? Again, assume dry, perfect conditions, and assume horse is stationary.

Did black powder pistols have a rifled barrel?

Thanks for any replies.

A bit late to the party but...

The guy who replied initially is pretty much correct. I've read that some experienced soldiers could get up to five out, but that's a pretty high rate of fire and probably a max. That's loading a round every 12 seconds. Other armies were closer to 2-3 a minute. At best I can probably do two, though hopefully if I ever find somewhere where I can shoot somewhat regularly, I'd like to get a proper cartridge pouch and make some paper cartridges and see if I can do better. Now, this is all going off of infantry with a musket and you asked about pistols.

In the Napoleonic Wars pistols were not primary weapons. Most cavalrymen carried carbines for skirmish work but the sword (or in some cases lances) were the primary arm of the cavalry. Some dragoons (French for example) would have been armed with the musketoon (a shorter musket) but that was primarily used for fighting on foot. I think French colour guards often had a pair of pistols. I don't honestly know if there is any objective evidence for rate of fire with pistols. Using the pistol as a primary weapons didn't really become a thing until the US Civil War.

To the best of my knowledge, there were no rifled pistols issued during the Napoleonic Wars, not counting perhaps a few personally supplied ones here and there.

Kind of sort of on topic, here is my horse, Starbuck:

http://vid247.photobucket.com/albums/gg134/CptJake_Minis/IMG_0581_zpsvxnkckpw.mp4


Guy riding him is our trainer (fantastic guy!)

Starbuck is a rescue horse. I used to have to sedate him so the farrier could work on him, he was terrified of people and impossible to handle (and I had the bruises to show!). After a few months of being VERY patient and a LOT of work I got him to the point I could put a halter on him and the farrier could work with him while I kept him calm. Sent him to a special Icelandic trainer. After 30 days she recommended we have him put down, "He is too dangerous, you'll never be able to ride him!". I was appalled. Sent him to the guy in the video, who though he does not specialize in Icelandics had worked with a few of our horses. He came by to pick Starbuck up and after 30 minutes with him looked at me and said "Oh, I can train him, he has trust issues but he is a good horse." As you can see, he got Starbuck to the point he could fire his pistol while sitting on him. He sent a similar video of him actually standing on the saddle and firing a couple rounds.

Starbuck is now the horse I ride most often. I don't think he can handle gun fire at this point (that was a few years ago and he still has trust issues) but that is because unfortunately I don't work with him enough for him to stay at the level of 'trained' he was at that point.

I can tell you, I have a LOT of respect for the folks who trained cavalry mounts to handle the gun fire, blood, and sheer terror of a battlefield. Getting a horse to go full out towards something it considers 'danger' is an amazing feat.

dethork wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
These questions about a particular gun cropped up on another thread, and because I didn't want to drag it OT, and because other dakka members have better gun knowledge than myself, I thought I would ask these questions here:

Pistols from the Napoleonic war/blackpowder era :

What's the average number of shots a trained soldier could fire per minute with a pistol? (assume dry, perfect conditions).

Same question, but with the soldier on horseback. Any difference? Again, assume dry, perfect conditions, and assume horse is stationary.

Did black powder pistols have a rifled barrel?

Thanks for any replies.

A bit late to the party but...

The guy who replied initially is pretty much correct. I've read that some experienced soldiers could get up to five out, but that's a pretty high rate of fire and probably a max. That's loading a round every 12 seconds. Other armies were closer to 2-3 a minute. At best I can probably do two, though hopefully if I ever find somewhere where I can shoot somewhat regularly, I'd like to get a proper cartridge pouch and make some paper cartridges and see if I can do better. Now, this is all going off of infantry with a musket and you asked about pistols.

In the Napoleonic Wars pistols were not primary weapons. Most cavalrymen carried carbines for skirmish work but the sword (or in some cases lances) were the primary arm of the cavalry. Some dragoons (French for example) would have been armed with the musketoon (a shorter musket) but that was primarily used for fighting on foot. I think French colour guards often had a pair of pistols. I don't honestly know if there is any objective evidence for rate of fire with pistols. Using the pistol as a primary weapons didn't really become a thing until the US Civil War.

To the best of my knowledge, there were no rifled pistols issued during the Napoleonic Wars, not counting perhaps a few personally supplied ones here and there.

French dragoons were issued pistols starting in 1801 and were used throughout the Napoleonic wars. Dragoons would typically carry 2, one holstered on either side of the saddle. I doubt even a well practiced dragoon would get off more than one round a minute with the pistol because it would be extremely difficult to reload on horseback, on the move, in combat. Brtish dragoons also carried pistols throughout the American War for Independence and the Napoleonic wars. The pistols were initially fairly large and heavy, 9 inch barrels, calibers like .62 and .69. Over the course of the Napoleonic Wars some lighter pistols were introduced to replace the heavier early models.

I ordered my handguard, gas system, and muzzle device today. Now the only thing I have left is the BCG, sights, and maybe an ambi charging handle (I shoot left handed), but I have a spare standard one laying around for now.

I can't wait for this rifle to be complete!

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
I ordered my handguard, gas system, and muzzle device today. Now the only thing I have left is the BCG, sights, and maybe an ambi charging handle (I shoot left handed), but I have a spare standard one laying around for now.

I can't wait for this rifle to be complete!

Sweet. I loved shopping for and then building my AR (300 BLK).

I splurged on a chromed BCG becuase I hate (cleaning) direct gas impingement systems.

 SickSix wrote:
I splurged on a chromed BCG becuase I hate (cleaning) direct gas impingement systems.

I'm also splurging on an coated BCG, a FailZero to be precise. My younger brother put one in one of his rifles and it's been excellent so far so I figured I'd give it a go as well.

Have you guys seen those nickel boron BCGs make a big difference cleaning wise? I too hate cleaning that whole area.

Direct Gas may need to be cleaned more often but it's much easier to clean. Even just soaking the thing with CLP will do it. If it's "wet" it will run.

Whereas, scraping a short stroke piston when it does get fouled is a pain. And, don't even get started on HK's roller delay lock.

My M1A is a dream to clean. Gas Piston is superior in every way.

I was finally able to hold a Sig P229 Legion and I really like the way they feel so far. The grips feel aggressive enough that the gun wont slide around in my hand if they get wet. The extra cut out under the trigger guard definitely gets my hand higher on the pistol which I like a lot, and the beaver tail just simply feels like the Sig was made for it.

The sights are by far my favorite thing about the Legions so far. The front sight is huge and extremely easy to pick up. The rear sight is blacked out with the exception of the tritium vials. The tritium is easy to see in both day light and night so I feel there is no need for the white paint. The rear sight is also serrated on the sight face so there was no glare.

Over all the new Legions are pretty well made. The only things that I really don't need on it are the accessory rail and the front slide serrations, but they are nice to have. I don't think I will be in any hurry to replace my P228, but if they decide to introduce a Legion P220 SAO I will be all over it.

 SickSix wrote:
My M1A is a dream to clean. Gas Piston is superior in every way.

Except accuracy and weight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ouze wrote:
Have you guys seen those nickel boron BCGs make a big difference cleaning wise? I too hate cleaning that whole area.

IME it's not the BCG and bolt that take a long time to clean - it's the star lugs. It does make it easier to see the carbon though.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 SickSix wrote:
My M1A is a dream to clean. Gas Piston is superior in every way.

Except accuracy and weight.

Grow stronger!




Son2 was marveling at how heavy my piston HK MR556 is compared to the gas tube M4 he gets issued.

I'm so jealous of the right to carry guns you guys in the states have. Here if you have a gun you have to either register it and keep it only at the polices descretion or just hide it. Lame.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I'm so jealous of the right to carry guns you guys in the states have. Here if you have a gun you have to either register it and keep it only at the polices descretion or just hide it. Lame.

Where are you located? If you're ever in the states look me up. I'll let you blow stuff up in American-hillybilly fashion until you want to immigrate.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I'm so jealous of the right to carry guns you guys in the states have. Here if you have a gun you have to either register it and keep it only at the polices descretion or just hide it. Lame.

I've wondered how many gun owners you guys would have if your gun laws were to be relaxed. How many of you guys would conceal carry. I asked this question in another thread and two posters responded. Both said that basically guns aren't a popular thing. But both of those posters are pretty anti gun so I'm thinking they were a little biased

My wife's uncle is full-blood Mexican. He is legally married to a US citizen (my wife's aunt), but never got his citizenship in order to not complicate issues with his large plots of land in Mexico.

My father in law visits this property in Mexico, and we have been invited, although I've declined do to safety concerns. In my wife's uncle's own words "no one leaves the ranch after dark, and no one leaves alone or unarmed during the day." They carry all the time down there, regardless of any gun laws.

 SickSix wrote:
My M1A is a dream to clean. Gas Piston is superior in every way.

Wait, we're supposed to clean them?

cuda1179 wrote:Where are you located? If you're ever in the states look me up. I'll let you blow stuff up in American-hillybilly fashion until you want to immigrate.

Northern Ireland. And I'd love to take you up on that offer!

yellowfever wrote:I've wondered how many gun owners you guys would have if your gun laws were to be relaxed. How many of you guys would conceal carry. I asked this question in another thread and two posters responded. Both said that basically guns aren't a popular thing. But both of those posters are pretty anti gun so I'm thinking they were a little biased

I would have one. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I'm so jealous of the right to carry guns you guys in the states have. Here if you have a gun you have to either register it and keep it only at the polices descretion or just hide it. Lame.

Former NI resident, now happily living in the States. For me there seems to be more of a focus on individual rights here, whereas the UK and Europe seems to favour collective rights.

So my rifle build is complete and I think it turned out great:



Parts list:
Spikes Tactical Zombie lower
Anderson Manufacturing upper
PSA MOE lower parts kit
PSA buffer tube assembly
ALG Defense Combat Trigger
Strike Industries Ultimate Dust Cover
Strike Industries forward assist
Yankee Hill Machine 16" fluted .300 AAC barrel
DS Arms low profile gas block
Radical Firearms melonited gas tube
Yankee Hill Machine Phantom flash hider
Midwest Industries 12" Lightweight Gen3 FreeFloat handguard
MFT Battlelink Minimalist Stock
AXTS Raptor ambidextrous charging handle
AIM Surplus NiB BCG
Magpul MBUS flip up sights

Very nice!