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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/04 07:51:55
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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Fighter Pilot
Pennsylvania
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Sigh. Let me address the baseless hate one at a time.
SilverMK2 wrote:
Clearly not, otherwise these kinds of stupid laws wouldn't still keep being proposed.
Call me wrong, but it seems like there isn't a single Christian, Conservative member in the thread.
Ok, you're wrong.
Kinda saddening that, because of such a stance becoming the minority, an entire thread is allowed to carry on bashing those that hold that stance in earnest.
Kinda sad that people are allowed to put their baseless prejudice into law to oppress people who are doing no harm to others.
Well. Your post is just rude. I don't think I can address it objectively.
sebster wrote:
CaptainGrey wrote:
Kinda saddening that, because of such a stance becoming the minority, an entire thread is allowed to carry on bashing those that hold that stance in earnest.
Threads in which forum members tell other forum members that they hold bigoted opinions against a minority are kind of sad threads, that's true. But they're sad only because they remind us that there are belief systems out there that will invent reasons to condemn and diminish people who aren't doing anything to hurt anyone.
This logic only goes so far. If I were to admit to being a Nazi Sexist Pedophile, I am sure I'd be condemned and diminished, even if I never lifted a finger or spoke a word to hurt anyone.
Cheesecat wrote: CaptainGrey wrote: Cheesecat wrote: CaptainGrey wrote:Am I the only one that thinks this is totally alright?
Call me wrong, but it seems like there isn't a single Christian, Conservative member in the thread.
Kinda saddening that, because of such a stance becoming the minority, an entire thread is allowed to carry on bashing those that hold that stance in earnest.
Why would someone being gay or straight be such a big deal?
It's not that. It's the idea of keeping such a controversial topic out of schools. If it is allowed, then naturally that will leave room for teachers pro-homosexuality to encourage it, which would lead to baskets upon baskets of issues and trouble for the schools as well as the teachers in question.
I think Racism, Religion, Sexual Orientation, and Political Party should be kept out of the mouths of those Authority figures affecting our youth.
Is that so bad?
So the education system should not talk about homosexuality for the fear that it might offend ignorant people?
The education system should not talk about sexual orientation beyond description for fear that it might adversely affect students in a way that could ruffle the feathers of parents. Causing issues for schools, teachers, and communities.
I don't think countrywide lawsuits (whether you think they are baseless or not) are worth teachers being allowed to say "Hey kids, being gay is cool too."
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SilverMK2 wrote: CaptainGrey wrote:It's not that. It's the idea of keeping such a controversial topic out of schools. If it is allowed, then naturally that will leave room for teachers pro-homosexuality to encourage it, which would lead to baskets upon baskets of issues and trouble for the schools as well as the teachers in question.
Right, in the same way as teaching school children about heterosexual relationships they all immediately break into an orgy of sexual activity.
You're changing the meaning of my post. I'm not saying teaching awareness of homosexuality is troublesome. I'm saying teachers being allowed to voice their personal opinion on the matter is a basket of trouble. Which leads me to...
I think Racism, Religion, Sexual Orientation, and Political Party should be kept out of the mouths of those Authority figures affecting our youth.
School is a place where young people learn about the world around them, where thay are able to form, develop and discuss ideas in a supposedly safe environment before going out into the wider world. Those kinds of subjects should be fine in the appropriate classes. What isn't fine is a teacher preaching one particular viewpoint to the exclusion of others; for example telling them party x is better than y. Teachers are there to supply information in a structured way and to help children develop the analytical tools of the mind to process this information.
You are saying exactly what I'm saying. It's just that, because I'm a staunch conservative, I have to be wrong.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/02/04 07:56:28
Gunline IG 1850 pts
Elysian IG 3000 pts
Horus Heresy Imperial Fists 500 pts
W/L/D: 35/6/4 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/04 07:56:12
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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CaptainGrey wrote:I agree. As you may note, I said "I think etc, etc, Sexual Orientation, and etc. should be kept out of the mouths of authority figures affecting our youth."
I didn't say "Teachers shouldn't talk about gays."
I said "Teachers shouldn't talk about sexual orientation."
Sexual orientation is an important part of human relationships, which are an important part of physical relationships. Sexual orientation is a very valid part of discussion when dealing with relationships and sex.
Leave that to the parents.
Unfortunately not all parents are equipped, knowledgable or willing to discuss many topics with their children. Is definately includes sexual reproduction and almost certainly includes sexual orientation.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/04 07:58:57
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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Fighter Pilot
Pennsylvania
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SilverMK2 wrote: CaptainGrey wrote:I agree. As you may note, I said "I think etc, etc, Sexual Orientation, and etc. should be kept out of the mouths of authority figures affecting our youth."
I didn't say "Teachers shouldn't talk about gays."
I said "Teachers shouldn't talk about sexual orientation."
Sexual orientation is an important part of human relationships, which are an important part of physical relationships. Sexual orientation is a very valid part of discussion when dealing with relationships and sex.
Leave that to the parents.
Unfortunately not all parents are equipped, knowledgable or willing to discuss many topics with their children. Is definately includes sexual reproduction and almost certainly includes sexual orientation.
Any post can look wrong when you steal bits and interpret them out of context. Look:
SilverMK2 wrote:teaching school children about heterosexual relationships they all immediately break into an orgy of sexual activity.
 Word for word, I said in an earlier post;
You're changing the meaning of my post. I'm not saying teaching awareness of homosexuality is troublesome. I'm saying teachers being allowed to voice their personal opinion on the matter is a basket of trouble.
Again, I understand that disagreeing with the conservative guy is "hip". But please, actually disagree with me if you are trying to disagree with me.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/02/04 08:01:29
Gunline IG 1850 pts
Elysian IG 3000 pts
Horus Heresy Imperial Fists 500 pts
W/L/D: 35/6/4 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/04 08:08:23
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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Fixture of Dakka
Kamloops, BC
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CaptainGrey wrote:Again, I understand that disagreeing with the conservative guy is "hip". But please, actually disagree with me if you are trying to disagree with me.
I don't think people are disagreeing with you because you're conservative, but because they didn't agree with your argument.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/04 11:48:01
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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sebster wrote:
If you take that story as literal truth, then you accept that in creating Adam and Eve, God not only allowed but required their children to have incest to produce future generations. Meaning you end up pro-incest and anti-gay.
Alternatively, you can accept that the story of Adam and Eve has its power and truth in its metaphors, and is not actually a literal account of something that really happened. And as such, trying to read it as a literal event from which we can deduce logical conclusions about the morals of gay sex and incest is, to be perfectly honest, biblical illiteracy.
Sebster do you really wan to turn this into a Bible debate again?
You know full well that I have explained why it was possible for the early descendants of Adam and Eve to procreate, and that it took 100's of years for genetic defects to start as humanity lived further and further beyond the fall in the garden.
So yeah there was incest in early humanity but there wasn't the same genetic problems in early man that we have now.
I also find it ironic that someone who isn't even a Christian has the cheek to call someone a Biblical illiterate.
GG
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/04 12:02:44
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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On my phone so it is a pita to multi quote. My above posts were also done on my phone om the way to work hence might be a bit more brusk than normal - sorry
CaptainGray - your post indicated that you wanted no discussion about alternate sexual practices in school and wanted this kind of thing to be left to parents.I replied to this and now you say that you have always said that homosexuality should be taught in school but it is just people 'encouraging' it should not be allowed (however you choose to define that).
You then seem to say that when you say sexuality is best left to being taught by the parents, which I reply to and then you say I am quoting you out of context while ignoring what I actually said. There is a reason there is general agreement on national teaching standards and course content - it is to ensure students have access to all, or enough information on a subject so they don't get a horrifically biased view of the world or remain unduely ignorant. Clearly this is better in some places and in some subjects than others, but is almost universally better than what parents can or will provide.
And cheesecat is correct - you could be someone saying that school should teach x y z liberal/religious/conservative/etc thing, or using a b c method and if I didn't agree with what you were saying, the reasons for it, the outcome, etc, I would take issue with it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/04 12:32:19
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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generalgrog wrote:
I also find it ironic that someone who isn't even a Christian has the cheek to call someone a Biblical illiterate.
That isn't irony, English speaker. This is your native language, get it right.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/04 12:35:22
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/04 12:35:55
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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generalgrog wrote:
I also find it ironic that someone who isn't even a Christian has the cheek to call someone a Biblical illiterate.
It is most certainly possible for someone who is not Christian to be more of an expert on the bible than someone who is.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/04 12:47:09
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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dogma wrote: generalgrog wrote:
I also find it ironic that someone who isn't even a Christian has the cheek to call someone a Biblical illiterate.
That isn't irony, English speaker. This is your native language, get it right.
My point is that sebster probably has never tried to exegete a Bible passage in his life. Based on our past discussions he gets most of his info from Athiest authors. So yeah it is a form of irony that someone like him, who is in fact "Biblically illiterate", calls someone who disagrees with his uneducated opinion, "Biblically illiterate".
GG
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/04 12:58:26
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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generalgrog wrote:
My point is that sebster probably has never tried to exegete a Bible passage in his life. Based on our past discussions he gets most of his info from Athiest authors. So yeah it is a form of irony that someone like him, who is in fact "Biblically illiterate", calls someone who disagrees with his uneducated opinion, "Biblically illiterate".
What does "irony" mean?
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/04 13:17:20
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Yvan eht nioj
In my Austin Ambassador Y Reg
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Isn't like rain on your wedding day?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/04 14:32:34
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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No. That's just coincidental
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/04 14:32:41
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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I thought it was a lot of spoons when all you needed was a knife?
And just to address some of the other points:
No Christians and conservatives in this thread: hi there, I have posted in this thread before. I am personally very conservative, and staunch evangelical Christian. I realize that the government has absolutely zero right to legislate morality and that passing laws that make everybody act like good little Christians actually doesn't make anybody be Christian. Government needs to stay out of religion and leave the "don't sin" message to the religious folks.
Regarding homosexuality and school: being gay might be "amoral" or "sinful" or anything else based on religion. But that doesn't change the fact that being gay is normal and that there are a ton of gay people around is that somehow managed to lead a normal life. And socialization and learning about the world around them is one of the things that happen on school. Do I want teachers to tell kids to get their gay on? Heck no. But am I okay with teachers telling kids that human sexuality is a thing and that there are many ways it can surface? Very much so.
I am more concerned about being an example to my kid and making sure he/she grows up being a good person who treats everybody else kindly and with respect (and I will admit that I hope he/she will make the choice to come to know Jesus as I did) than I am about the kid finding out that some guys like to stick it in the vagina and some like to stick it into a guys butt.
In the grand scheme of things, and knowing that even a tiny sin would separate you as much from God as a giant one, I am not that concerned about my kid learning about what is going on in the world. Let them know what is happening out in the world, and just do your best as a parent to help them navigate that world.
I would rather kids learn that certain things are normal, but that a religion might teach us that we shouldn't do them (be gay, gossip, eat delicious pork, could be anything really) and that just because we don't do them doesn't mean that people who do are evil or should be shunned.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/04 17:44:05
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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dogma wrote: generalgrog wrote:
My point is that sebster probably has never tried to exegete a Bible passage in his life. Based on our past discussions he gets most of his info from Athiest authors. So yeah it is a form of irony that someone like him, who is in fact "Biblically illiterate", calls someone who disagrees with his uneducated opinion, "Biblically illiterate".
What does "irony" mean?
Try this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony
GG
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/04 17:46:00
Subject: Re:TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
Mesopotamia. The Kingdom Where we Secretly Reign.
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I don't see how disagreeing with the actions described in the OP and being a conservative and/or Christian are mutually exclusive.
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Drink deeply and lustily from the foamy draught of evil.
W: 1.756 Quadrillion L: 0 D: 2
Haters gon' hate. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/04 18:13:17
Subject: Re:TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Monster Rain wrote:I don't see how disagreeing with the actions described in the OP and being a conservative and/or Christian are mutually exclusive.
You just don't understand.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/04 19:31:38
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator
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Oxymoron!!
Man I never thought I would get a chance to say that word.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/04 20:02:19
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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I'm glad someone got it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/04 21:36:36
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/04 22:12:20
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Whats funny is, if someone from Australia said it, from their perspective they'd be right. Automatically Appended Next Post: CaptainGrey wrote:Am I the only one that thinks this is totally alright?
Call me wrong, but it seems like there isn't a single Christian, Conservative member in the thread.
Kinda saddening that, because of such a stance becoming the minority, an entire thread is allowed to carry on bashing those that hold that stance in earnest.
I'm occasionally Christian, and have been accused of being more right wing then Attila the Hun. I completely and utterly don't care. Just keep the PDA in private (everyone thank you) and take care of your kids. Automatically Appended Next Post: rubiksnoob wrote: CaptainGrey wrote: Cheesecat wrote: CaptainGrey wrote:Am I the only one that thinks this is totally alright?
Call me wrong, but it seems like there isn't a single Christian, Conservative member in the thread.
Kinda saddening that, because of such a stance becoming the minority, an entire thread is allowed to carry on bashing those that hold that stance in earnest.
Why would someone being gay or straight be such a big deal?
It's not that. It's the idea of keeping such a controversial topic out of schools. If it is allowed, then naturally that will leave room for teachers pro-homosexuality to encourage it, which would lead to baskets upon baskets of issues and trouble for the schools as well as the teachers in question.
I think Racism, Religion, Sexual Orientation, and Political Party should be kept out of the mouths of those Authority figures affecting our youth.
Is that so bad?
Which means that teachers who are pro-heterosexuality shouldn't be allowed to encourage that either.
I'm ok with that. Teach math, writing, logic,and the scientific method. Keep the PC nonsense somewhere else.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/02/04 22:17:23
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/05 00:59:06
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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Member of the Ethereal Council
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But Frazzled, Then we teach kids to shy away from topics that might offend someone or that their opinions must be kept to themselves. We need to teach kids that controversial topics can be civil.
We had anti-gay vs. Pro-gay in my class all the time. I ended up being totally opposite of this one girl. Do you know what happened, We stayed friends because she respected my view-point.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/05 02:09:36
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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hotsauceman1 wrote:But Frazzled, Then we teach kids to shy away from topics that might offend someone or that their opinions must be kept to themselves. We need to teach kids that controversial topics can be civil.
We had anti-gay vs. Pro-gay in my class all the time. I ended up being totally opposite of this one girl. Do you know what happened, We stayed friends because she respected my view-point.
DId everyone in the class make it to calculus? if not you wasted your time.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/05 02:39:43
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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CaptainGrey wrote:This logic only goes so far. If I were to admit to being a Nazi Sexist Pedophile, I am sure I'd be condemned and diminished, even if I never lifted a finger or spoke a word to hurt anyone.
You would be, because being a Nazi Sexist you'd be preaching hatred and the diminishment of other people, who hadn't done anything wrong.
Which would be the same reason that homophobes are condemned. Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not particularly, but I also don't really want posters to contrive worldviews and moral teachings out of very peculiar biblical readings. So I'm in a bit of a bind.
You know full well that I have explained why it was possible for the early descendants of Adam and Eve to procreate, and that it took 100's of years for genetic defects to start as humanity lived further and further beyond the fall in the garden.
I haven't heard you tell me the story, though I am familiar with it from an explanation given to me by a relative one time.
I also find it ironic that someone who isn't even a Christian has the cheek to call someone a Biblical illiterate.
Illiteracy is the inability to read. When a person reads a story like the Garden of Eden, sees there is a Tree of Life and a Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, that the man is called Adam, which literally means 'man', and figures it is a literal story in which the inevitable incest could be explained away with some fanwank about how incest was only a problem later on a genetic defects, and then going on to note that it was a man and woman and therefore there's an implicit acceptance of heterosexuality only, then he's missed the point of the story entirely.
As Origen said;
"Who would be so childish as to think that God was like a human gardener and planted a paradise in Eden facing the east, and in it made a real visible tree, so that one could acquire life by eating its fruit with real teeth or, again, could participate in good and evil by eating what he took from the other tree? And if the text says that God walked in the garden in the evening, or Adam hid himself under the tree, I cannot think that anyone would dispute that these things are said in the figurative sense, in an effort to reveal certain mysteries by means of an apparent historical tale and not by something that actually took place. . . . . "
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/05 03:03:31
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/05 03:18:34
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Frazzled wrote:
I'm ok with that. Teach math, writing, logic,and the scientific method. Keep the PC nonsense somewhere else.
So, give children all the tools necessary for noticing sexuality (or race, religion, and politics), but don't ever explain it to them?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/05 03:19:03
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/05 03:21:42
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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generalgrog wrote:My point is that sebster probably has never tried to exegete a Bible passage in his life. Based on our past discussions he gets most of his info from Athiest authors. So yeah it is a form of irony that someone like him, who is in fact "Biblically illiterate", calls someone who disagrees with his uneducated opinion, "Biblically illiterate".
GG
Where did you get that from? I don't even read atheist authors. Well, none that I know of, I'm reading Why Nations Fail right now, and the authors might be atheists for all I know, but it doesn't really come up in their writing.
I don't read anything specifically on atheism. I don't really see the point. It'd be like reading a book on why the author doesn't like hot dogs. When I want to learn about hot dogs, I ask a fan of hot dogs.
When it comes to Christianity, I read Christian authors. I follow a few blogs on the subject, the best of them and a site I'd really recommend is the slacktivist. He is a committed Christian, but he just isn't your brand of Christian.
He's the guy who made me realise that trying to make one kind of story into a form it is not is a kind of illiteracy. If you were to read 1984 as an instructive on proper farming techniques, you'd be functionally illiterate in regards to allegory, and your illiteracy would result in you learning nothing about 20th century Russian politics, and probably give you some really dumb ideas about how to run your farm. In the same way, trying to read the Garden of Eden as a story of events that really happened is an illiterate take on an origin myth, that causes the reader to learn nothing of the metaphysical ideas in the story, and at the same time giving him some really strange ideas about the origin of man.
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“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/05 03:23:20
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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sebster wrote:
As Origen said;
"Who would be so childish as to think that God was like a human gardener and planted a paradise in Eden facing the east, and in it made a real visible tree, so that one could acquire life by eating its fruit with real teeth or, again, could participate in good and evil by eating what he took from the other tree? And if the text says that God walked in the garden in the evening, or Adam hid himself under the tree, I cannot think that anyone would dispute that these things are said in the figurative sense, in an effort to reveal certain mysteries by means of an apparent historical tale and not by something that actually took place. . . . . "
Sebster you do realize hat Origen was a heretic right? He was excommunicated for heresy in the 5th century. and from what I gather he was excommunicated justly. He taught a version of the gospel of inclusion, called apokatastasis in his day, and he may have believed in form of reincarnation similar to Hinduism.
So the fact that you would quote a known heretic shows how much you don't know. You may as well have quoted David Koresh as some biblical authority.
GG
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/05 03:28:33
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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generalgrog wrote:
So the fact that you would quote a known heretic shows how much you don't know. You may as well have quoted David Koresh as some biblical authority.
Are you claiming to be a biblical scholar, such that you can talk down to others on that basis?
I mean, I actually am a political scholar and, while I do talk down to people in my weaker moments, I know its wrong of me to do so.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/05 03:29:49
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/05 03:29:38
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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sebster wrote:
Illiteracy is the inability to read. When a person reads a story like the Garden of Eden, sees there is a Tree of Life and a Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, that the man is called Adam, which literally means 'man', and figures it is a literal story in which the inevitable incest could be explained away with some fanwank about how incest was only a problem later on a genetic defects, and then going on to note that it was a man and woman and therefore there's an implicit acceptance of heterosexuality only, then he's missed the point of the story entirely.
By the way you forgot to to include..."In my opinion" at the start of your exposition there. Because in the end that's all you are doing is expressing your opinion.
And that's cool and all, but don't act like it's some deep truth you are presenting.
GG Automatically Appended Next Post: dogma wrote: generalgrog wrote:
So the fact that you would quote a known heretic shows how much you don't know. You may as well have quoted David Koresh as some biblical authority.
Are you claiming to be a biblical scholar, such that you can talk down to others on that basis?
I mean, I actually am a political scholar and, while I do talk down to people in my weaker moments, I know its wrong of me to do so.
Dogma why must you continually try and bait me?
You are better than that.
GG
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/05 03:30:55
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/05 03:35:06
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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I am no conjurer of cheap tricks. I'm not baiting you, I'm trying to help you.
We don't agree on anything, but it does neither yourself, nor anyone else, any good when you use authority and opinion as a shield.
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/05 04:53:52
Subject: TN legislator might force straight camp on school kids
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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generalgrog wrote:Sebster you do realize hat Origen was a heretic right? He was excommunicated for heresy in the 5th century. and from what I gather he was excommunicated justly. He taught a version of the gospel of inclusion, called apokatastasis in his day, and he may have believed in form of reincarnation similar to Hinduism.
Wow. I mean holy crap on a cracker wow.
You actually think his excommunication is grounds for rejection of all statements made? fething seriously, you're going to sit there and claim that the biblical literalism Origen was mocking in the quote I gave had anything to do with his excommunication (which was more the product of his falling afoul of the politics of the church of his day, and the church doing some metaphyisical housecleaning 300 years later).
I mean, you're going to dismiss one of the most important voices in the development of early Christianity because of the wikipedia summary you read?
You also gonna dismiss a guy like Philip Schaff, an important figure in 19th C American religion, who commented on Origen with the following;
"It is impossible to deny a respectful sympathy to this extraordinary man, who, with all his brilliant talents, and a host of enthusiastic friends and admirers, was driven from his country, stripped of his sacred office, excommunicated from a part of the church, then thrown into a dungeon, loaded with chains, racked by torture, doomed to drag his aged frame and dislocated limbs in pain and poverty, and long after his death to have his memory branded, his name anathematized, and his salvation denied; but who, nevertheless, did more than all his enemies combined to advance the cause of sacred learning, to refute and convert heathens and heretics, and to make the church respected in the eyes of the world. Origen was the greatest scholar of his age, and the most learned and gracious of all the ante-Nicene fathers."
Oh, and the idea is not 'reincarnation similar to Hinduism'. That's some nonsense dreamed up in the 70s by some new age hippies. The idea is universal reconciliation - the idea that all souls were once part of God, and would one day return to it, even perhaps Satan himself. Which we can see why other elements of the faith would reject it and consider it heresy... but at least they understood the term, which you, biblical scholar, did not. Automatically Appended Next Post: generalgrog wrote:By the way you forgot to to include..."In my opinion" at the start of your exposition there. Because in the end that's all you are doing is expressing your opinion.
And that's cool and all, but don't act like it's some deep truth you are presenting.
GG
No, it isn't my opinion, and it isn't some deep truth. It's the plain fething text of the story. There is no opinion to be had that 1984 is about farm management, and no opinion to be had that the Garden of Eden is a journalistic account of events that really actually happened. That's absurd nonsense, that produces crazy beliefs and stops people learning things of meaning from the story.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/02/05 04:59:19
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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