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 judgedoug wrote:

 praetor24 wrote:

Another thing that I would be curious to know is what kind of plastic do you intend to use, if you reach the 70k, e.g. I have seen Mantic's plastic models and I am appalled by their quality.

Mantic's plastic sprues are done by Renedra (undead/elves/dwarves/orcs/etc). Do you mean their restic/sprueless plastic? (gore riders/undead cavalry/etc)

Originally they were done by Renedra until the goblins (which actually backfired with a crappy chinese company)

They dumped them though because as I said, Renedra is notorious for being very lax/slow (almost as if they have a monopoly on uk hard plastic....)

Not saying Renedra is terrible as they have quality, but I kind of doubt if Warzone went with Renedra that you'll see these products by June 2013.

Heck even Warlord I hear is thinking of doing their own in house plastics to speed up production (and maybe cut costs)

Unless of course Renedra is getting the message with these new plastic makers (such as the ones being used by wgf)


Though ultimately imo plastic makers DO NOT MATTER MOST OF THE TIME on the quality of plastics, sculptors do. The very same company that has done WGF early stuff (terrible terrible stuff) is also the people doing Dreamforge


Sorry for seemingly drifting off topicness with the talk of plastics. It is a hairball of an issue with what kind of plastics to run for, especially for a completely new line. With metal/resin its a lot less headache!

There's also the company that does Victrix, which isn't Renedra or WGF...

sometimes the plastic does matter, or you'll get that soft shiny plastic; sometimes the sprues need to be acid-washed; etc.

 judgedoug wrote:
There's also the company that does Victrix, which isn't Renedra or WGF...

Oh well of course theres others.

Were Defiance Marines done in house? I think they were

Eccentric and Proxie are in house, though far from mass market consumption in my mind

Unsure who HaT uses, though their quality is borderline soft plastic (which they usually make outside their small 28mm line)


So theres lots of routes with plastics. Though as I mentioned with a proposed deadline of June 2013 they better get cracking on choosing if they want to do hard plastic, especially if it is done overseas (the shipping delays on dream forge come to mind)

Well, 40k stretch goal is now past us. 45k has kind of a lame reward (dice, who needs dice ?), but 50k is the real deal.

 kenshin620 wrote:

Though ultimately imo plastic makers DO NOT MATTER MOST OF THE TIME on the quality of plastics, sculptors do. The very same company that has done WGF early stuff (terrible terrible stuff) is also the people doing Dreamforge

I think that line their is what sums up all this talk of companies and the outsource of plastics.

XD

 praetor24 wrote:
Well, 40k stretch goal is now past us. 45k has kind of a lame reward (dice, who needs dice ?), but 50k is the real deal.

Yes! Big Thanks! and we have something special at 50k! Not only Old/New Heroes!

The plastic manufacturer does make a difference too (tho I agree the sculptor is the main key),

I build 1/35 scale kits and one of the major problem of a lot of them that came out of eastern europe in the mid to late 90's was not only the design but the casting

short shooting the moulds (not enough plastic used to save cash) meant parts not forming correctly, or bits of the sprue just going missing

Opening the moulds too soon to speed production led to exagerated push out marks

Using too high pressures to compensate for poorly designed moulds (in terms of plastic flow) leads to masses of flash or vents right over detail that you can't clean up

Horrible mould release agent that you have to spend hours scrubbing off in washing powder (as dish soap is not enough) means they are a struggle to assemble let alone paint

 kenshin620 wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
There's also the company that does Victrix, which isn't Renedra or WGF...

Oh well of course theres others.
Were Defiance Marines done in house? I think they were
Eccentric and Proxie are in house, though far from mass market consumption in my mind
Unsure who HaT uses, though their quality is borderline soft plastic (which they usually make outside their small 28mm line)

So theres lots of routes with plastics. Though as I mentioned with a proposed deadline of June 2013 they better get cracking on choosing if they want to do hard plastic, especially if it is done overseas (the shipping delays on dream forge come to mind)

Defiance UAMC were done by a plastics manufacturer in Boston who hadn't done anything with that much detail before. It was like the only delay from them that made sense (especially as they posted continual updates showing the sprues being cut etc, and finally the manufacturer even wrote a letter saying, sorry it took so long)

Alot of the smaller 1/72 plastics companies are actually spuncast (hence no outside sprue)

but back on topic slightly,
Warzone could be done with 3d printed abs plastic?

Wouldn't that be prohibitively expensive and take a really long time to produce?

Small update for you !

Hopefully it won't be so "small" once it's in our hands!

Looks quite good.

Can you answer a question a moment, I am toying with pledging no starters (have a raside pledge atm) and instead go for a chasseur and just add whatever add ons I would like to paint, is this possible, will there be extra postage charge and will everything (miniature-wise) be available as add ons?

Thanks for your time.

 judgedoug wrote:

Yeah, those are definitely Renedra; basically the same company that did GW's plastics until GW bought their own equipment several years back.

Hahahah!!!

No! Absolutely no! Renedra is run by ex-GW employees, Renedra has never produced anything for GW, and GW has had their plastic manufacturing in house for a long, long time. Far, far longer then a couple of years. Renedra would simply never had the capacity to produce the number of sprues/molds GW required, even in the early days of GW. I would estimate that GW has done their plastics in house for two decades, maybe even longer.

Not sure if it's the angle or what, but the front part of the torso looks too small. It would be hard to fit the pilot's legs there right now. Perhaps an orthographic shot would make this clearer.

Edit: Just saw the other shot on facebook. The lower part looks too short and too narrow as it is. I'm guessing widening it by about 40% and extending it downwards by about 30% would do the tick. It also looks like you've chosen to narrow down the leg structure the further down you go. It kinda removes some weight from the model.

Looks fine, no one wants to cast a fatty.

Double post

I collect dice as much as miniatures so I'm happy to see that offered. Even if the Brotherhood conga line is growing.

I'm liking the Vulcan.

Cergorach wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

Yeah, those are definitely Renedra; basically the same company that did GW's plastics until GW bought their own equipment several years back.

Hahahah!!!

No! Absolutely no! Renedra is run by ex-GW employees, Renedra has never produced anything for GW, and GW has had their plastic manufacturing in house for a long, long time. Far, far longer then a couple of years. Renedra would simply never had the capacity to produce the number of sprues/molds GW required, even in the early days of GW. I would estimate that GW has done their plastics in house for two decades, maybe even longer.

Less than that. There's an article in a an old WD where GW discusses how they've moved plastics production in-house and plan on producing more kits. I'm wondering if it's worth the trouble trying to locate it.

Hmm, about ten seconds later I've found the answer:
http://www.renedra.co.uk/history.html
Terry Ardener - "10 years later in 1985 I started my own Toolmaking business in Wisbech and one of my first customers was Games Workshop who were in their early stages of Plastic miniatures. In 1998 GW bought out my business and I continued working for them until I took retirement in February 2007."

So Terry Ardener did GW's plastics as another company until they bought it out in 1998. So 15 years ago. Then him/his sons started Renedra, their first wargames kit was Perry ACW.

But wayyyy off-topic now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kenshin620 wrote:
Originally they were done by Renedra until the goblins (which actually backfired with a crappy chinese company)

Actually I think the deal is that Mantic supplied the company with metal figures as they lacked 3-ups, and the pantograph therefore had much less detail to work with vs a normal 3-up and wayy too many undercuts. Result = soft figs. Regardless I just painted 200 of 'em and they were okay. Not terrible, but nowhere near good. Quality reminded me of the old GW Fantasy Regiments box set.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:

Plastic is not a panacea and it has its limitations as all mediums have, is it worth the transition from a 3 parts model to a lets say 10 parts model just to be in plastic?

Absolutely! Plastic is just that much easier and more fun to work with.

Of course, I LIKE multipart models because I like the modelling process and I enjoy making conversions. 3 parts or less? Too much like a board game piece.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:

Plastic is not a panacea and it has its limitations as all mediums have, is it worth the transition from a 3 parts model to a lets say 10 parts model just to be in plastic?

Of course, I LIKE multipart models because I like the modelling process and I enjoy making conversions. 3 parts or less? Too much like a board game piece.

I have to absolutely agree with you here. Conversion for me is 70% of the joy of the hobby!

Yeah, I kinda agree with Bob on this one. Three parts or less is okay for low-count units, like Chosen, but get dull really fast for a big batch of troops. Which this game won't be, hopefully.

HMV: I see what you mean. Maybe the driver of the Vulkan has lost a leg and his foot is all the way at the front bottom in the "gut" armour plating? Or he's sitting with his legs crossed, one foot on top of the other?

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Yeah, I kinda agree with Bob on this one. Three parts or less is okay for low-count units, like Chosen, but get dull really fast for a big batch of troops. Which this game won't be, hopefully.

But isnt this game going to be a small skirmish anyways? Unless big batch means 10 guys in which case forgive me

Although no matter the material it looks like this will be multipart anyways from the ks page

 praetor24 wrote:
Well, 40k stretch goal is now past us.

Congratulations to the Warzone team to have surpassed 40k

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:
Regarding plastic, we are collecting quotes atm, one of them is ex-GW Renedra Limited.

Have you tried talking to Reaper about Bones material?

 praetor24 wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:

Plastic is not a panacea and it has its limitations as all mediums have, is it worth the transition from a 3 parts model to a lets say 10 parts model just to be in plastic?

Of course, I LIKE multipart models because I like the modelling process and I enjoy making conversions. 3 parts or less? Too much like a board game piece.

I have to absolutely agree with you here. Conversion for me is 70% of the joy of the hobby!

That's why that Dreamforge kickstarter got me so hooked. When I saw all the options. Now that I have them, they really have set the bar for me as far as miniatures. Some of the basic infantry have 15 pieces! I have 60 of them and not one of them will be the same when I am done.

IS the Vulkan going to get bigger arms? Right now it looks cool, but it is suffering from T Rex Syndrome.

 kenshin620 wrote:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Yeah, I kinda agree with Bob on this one. Three parts or less is okay for low-count units, like Chosen, but get dull really fast for a big batch of troops. Which this game won't be, hopefully.

But isnt this game going to be a small skirmish anyways? Unless big batch means 10 guys in which case forgive me

Although no matter the material it looks like this will be multipart anyways from the ks page

10 does not mean a big batch in my book either, hence the second sentence on that first line.

However, I was once inclined to field minimal heroes and 30 hussars (1st Ed.) and swamping elite armies was a viable tactic, so I could see myself wanting to do it again.

 Andrew1975 wrote:
IS the Vulkan going to get bigger arms? Right now it looks cool, but it is suffering from T Rex Syndrome.

Looks like the arms are big enough to me. Don't think it needs to be able to scratch its back after all.

 Ronin_eX wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:
IS the Vulkan going to get bigger arms? Right now it looks cool, but it is suffering from T Rex Syndrome.

Looks like the arms are big enough to me. Don't think it needs to be able to scratch its back after all.

I think you realize he's not talking about that pic but rather the one that has been floating around this thread and the kickstarter over the weekend that had the mailbox shaped weapon stubs... the one still pictured on the actual kickstarter.

Warzone Resurrection wrote:

 praetor24 wrote:
Well, 40k stretch goal is now past us. 45k has kind of a lame reward (dice, who needs dice ?), but 50k is the real deal.

Yes! Big Thanks! and we have something special at 50k! Not only Old/New Heroes!

I'd recommend showing whatever the something special is at 50K at 45K as a preview of what happens when the project hits 50k. Give people a reason to want to get there, not a surprise after the fact. You want them to tell all the people they know, post about it at various places and generally do what they can to help the project get to the next stretch goal. So show what it will be before the goal is hit, not after.

And then when 50k is hit, show the extra thing for 55K that you haven't shown yet. Then when that is hit, show the surprise thing if 60k is hit and so on.

Build momentum, don't surprise after the fact.

 warboss wrote:

 Ronin_eX wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:
IS the Vulkan going to get bigger arms? Right now it looks cool, but it is suffering from T Rex Syndrome.

Looks like the arms are big enough to me. Don't think it needs to be able to scratch its back after all.

I think you realize he's not talking about that pic but rather the one that has been floating around this thread and the kickstarter over the weekend that had the mailbox shaped weapon stubs... the one still pictured on the actual kickstarter.

And? Honestly, the "arms" are stubby because they are weapon hardpoints. I chop the gatling gun off of my Vulcans at home and their mounting point would look stubby as well. The concepts are showing the Vulcan before attaching gear and several people seem to be under the assumption that those mounting points denote the finalized arms rather than displaying them prior to having weapons mounted. The one on the KS page is actually quite nice because it pictures the concept of the base mini and all of its attachements.

Just saying, the arms aren't too small, because that isn't the entire arm. This seemed obvious to me, but several people commenting on it seem to have misunderstood the purpose of the concept being shown without weapons attached to the hardpoints. So I figured that I may as well show a version in the "finished state" (relatively speaking... what with it being a concept).