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Puscifer wrote:

I got Daemons tomorrow night with my DW.

Not looking forward to it as I'm outnumbered at least 4-1 and that is 4-1 of effective troops, not 4-1 of just anything.

Enjoy!

If you face alot of Slaanesh, you're going to cry.

Anything not heavy/mono Slaanesh should prove a good slug-match unless your dice betray you on your armour saves...
Against my buddy yesterday, I wiped out a full DW command squad with a Herald w/Locus of Conjuration (for S6 shots), 4D6/BS3 shots, 3D6/BS4 shots and finally the auto-2D6/S4 hits from the unit's Blasted Standard...
And that was without Prescience since my Herald decided to brainfart and rolled an 11 for his psychic test!

On the other hand, my buddy's dice caught absolute fire from turn 3 onwards and he failed only 2 or 3 saves for the rest of the game and thus tabled me.

Also be sure to watch-out for every unit champ in a Daemon army now - for only 15pts total we can get Sergeant-equivalents with initiative order ap2 ccw's! (now if only my Herald of Khorne could learn to hit the @$$-end of a Termie Librarian instead of rolling 1's for three rounds and getting fried by the pointy stick! )

Samurai_Eduh wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:

BRB, pg 18:

If a target is partially hidden from the firer's view by models from a third unit... It receives a 5+ cover save in the same way ask if it was behind terrain. Similarly, if a model fires through the gaps between models in an intervening unit, the target is in cover, even if it is completely visible to the firer.

That's the way I've always played it and the way I'm sure the writers intended for it to be played.

However if you fire OVER the model, you are not firing THROUGH the gaps between the models any longer. You dont have an infinitely tall invisible cylinder from each base.

Dito people not understanding the 25% rule for vehicles. It is NOT 25% of the height, but the facing. The vehicle is NOT a solid rectangle, the lower legs are not 25% of the models facing, so the aegis does NOT give cover.

 agnosto wrote:
Are the swords that heralds and other get Gifts? If so, Dark Excommunication (I think that's what the GK power is called) will suck.

They're called Rewards.

Experiment 626 wrote:

Puscifer wrote:

I got Daemons tomorrow night with my DW.

Not looking forward to it as I'm outnumbered at least 4-1 and that is 4-1 of effective troops, not 4-1 of just anything.

Enjoy!

If you face alot of Slaanesh, you're going to cry.

Anything not heavy/mono Slaanesh should prove a good slug-match unless your dice betray you on your armour saves...
Against my buddy yesterday, I wiped out a full DW command squad with a Herald w/Locus of Conjuration (for S6 shots), 4D6/BS3 shots, 3D6/BS4 shots and finally the auto-2D6/S4 hits from the unit's Blasted Standard...
And that was without Prescience since my Herald decided to brainfart and rolled an 11 for his psychic test!

On the other hand, my buddy's dice caught absolute fire from turn 3 onwards and he failed only 2 or 3 saves for the rest of the game and thus tabled me.

Also be sure to watch-out for every unit champ in a Daemon army now - for only 15pts total we can get Sergeant-equivalents with initiative order ap2 ccw's! (now if only my Herald of Khorne could learn to hit the @$$-end of a Termie Librarian instead of rolling 1's for three rounds and getting fried by the pointy stick! )

It's a mix of Slaanesh and Nurgle, 60/40 in favour of Slaanesh.

I'm curious to see what seasoned daemon players think of running a mono khorne. I know that the skull catapult is good, and a lot of people are jumping on board with Flesh hounds with karanak, but what else?

I also notice people complaining that slannesh got hurt, but I really don't see this. To me it looks like Tzeentch and Slannesh got the best of the new book, Nurgle being a very close second.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
people not understanding the 25% rule for vehicles. It is NOT 25% of the height, but the facing. The vehicle is NOT a solid rectangle, the lower legs are not 25% of the models facing, so the aegis does NOT give cover.

From where I'm looking, if one were to take a photograph of a SG from a trooper horizontal POV at any given distance, the legs - even just the foreground pair to satisfy a common sense interpretation of the 'facings' rule - make up a significant part of the vehicle, discounting weapon barrels and decoration per BRBpg73; enough so I can see the taller sections of an Aegis line contributing to the magic 25%.

I'm not keen on SGs and don't have an interest in making them near unkillable, it just seems to me that this trick is legit.

I'm hesitant to say that Tzeentch got the best of it.

I had a really solid Tzeentch list until Saturday morning. Now, with the new Codex, all my shooting can be denied on a 6+, or 5+ against GK, or 4+ against any decent Psyker. Oh, and the shooting that can't be denied? That's on Flamers, who now have AP 4 instead of AP Awesome.

And the Screamers? Instead of 4 S5 AP2 attacks on the charge, I get one??? AUGH! That nerf changed them from vehicle-hunters to light vehicle hunters. There's no way I'm gonna get enough hits against a LR or Monolith to take all 4HP. I MIGHT against AV10. I only have six of them, and now I'm prolly gonna drop that fun unit.

I think one big problem with the Codex is that it has to be so tailored. Depending on what you take, it can kill anything very effectively. But what's an all-comers list going to look like?

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Hey I just realized something, Daemons of Tzeentch get +3 to their Ld when casting powers, LoCs have a base Ld of 9. Obviously they still peril if they roll 2 or 12, but does this mean the powers still go off if they roll an 11?

That's being debated here.

Mr. Degarczynski wrote:

 Generalian wrote:
So we are working on trying to break the codex and all we can see right now are a view obvious ones...

If you combine the psyker battle squad with slannesh pavane... you can one shot entire squads of everything.

Could you explain this in a little more detail please? I'm not quite sure I follow. Whose psyker battle squad, and how is this made possible?

Thanks...

IG's Pysker Battle Squad. 10 of them will reduce everythings leadership to 1 if their spell is cast. The Pavane (essentially) causes a mass leadership test.

You're relying on rolling the Pavane, casting the reduce leadership, DTW on a level 1 pysker, another cast, another DTW and then after that if they don't roll snake-eyes that unit is dead.

This book has to be one of the fastest armies out there. You could easily build an army that gets off 4-5 2nd turn charges. Couple this with very precise DSing and i reckon DoC will be very high in the tier system.

Some units:
Furies with a HoT on disc
pretty much anything with DoS
Bloodcrushers with HoK
Flying MCs
Scouting Hounds (flanking if desired)
throw in some Icons along with the ability to pull in 2 units
I cant remember it but I believe there is a +1/-1 of the reserves roll (this could be the enemy forgive me if i don't have this one correct)

Anyway with this kind of build you will be all over the enemies deployment in the 2nd turn. I reckon the Furies units will be doing some tying up before your heavy hitters clean up on turn 3.

 lindsay40k wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
people not understanding the 25% rule for vehicles. It is NOT 25% of the height, but the facing. The vehicle is NOT a solid rectangle, the lower legs are not 25% of the models facing, so the aegis does NOT give cover.

From where I'm looking, if one were to take a photograph of a SG from a trooper horizontal POV at any given distance, the legs - even just the foreground pair to satisfy a common sense interpretation of the 'facings' rule - make up a significant part of the vehicle, discounting weapon barrels and decoration per BRBpg73; enough so I can see the taller sections of an Aegis line contributing to the magic 25%.

I'm not keen on SGs and don't have an interest in making them near unkillable, it just seems to me that this trick is legit.

Again, because of the rules involving facing... the soul grinder will only get the +2 cover against units on the GROUND! If anything is above the ground, it will not receive the cover save.

 l0k1 wrote:
I'm curious to see what seasoned daemon players think of running a mono khorne. I know that the skull catapult is good, and a lot of people are jumping on board with Flesh hounds with karanak, but what else?

I also notice people complaining that slannesh got hurt, but I really don't see this. To me it looks like Tzeentch and Slannesh got the best of the new book, Nurgle being a very close second.

One thing I like is that you can start Karanak with a squad of 'letters. You then scout the khorne dogs and 'letters up 12" closer to the enemies face. On turn two you can move karanak back to the khorne dogs or let him hang out with the 'letters.
Add in 1-2 khorne heralds on juggs with axes to carve up some MEQ. That's one hard hitting death star thats getting a 2 turn assault.
The other 'letters are there to provide extra threat. Your major threat are the heralds, so both delivery mechanisms must be destroyed for the heralds to not get up close and personal.

Oh, and that's not counting all the other turn two assults you can do at the same time -- seekers, etc...

This is what I plan on fielding:

2000

HQ:
Lv.1 Telepathy Keeper of Secrets = 220
2 Greater Gifts, 1 Lesser Gift

Lv.3 Divination Herald of Tzeentch = 120
Disc

Herald of Slaanesh = 85
1 Lesser Gift, Exalted Locus

Herald of Slaanesh = 85
1 Lesser Gift, Exalted Locus

Herald of Slaanesh = 100
1 Lesser Gift, Exalted Locus, Seeker

TROOP:
20x Daemonettes (Champ, Icon) = 195
20x Daemonettes (Champ, Icon) = 195
10x Daemonettes (Champ) = 95
10x Daemonettes (Champ) = 95

FAST ATTACK:
20x Seekers (Champ, Banner) = 255
9x Screamers = 225

HEAVY:
Tz Chariot (Blue Horror) = 110
Tz Chariot (Blue Horror) = 110
Tz Chariot (Blue Horror) = 110

Keeper stays with Lv.1 and either rolls on Telepathy or Slaanesh. Being Lv.1 on the Slaanesh table, if he gets 5-6, he simply re-rolls and hopefully gets 1-2. However, I'll be willing to just settle with Psychic Shriek every time from Telepathy.

Divination Herald hopefully rolls Misfortune. Prescience is a no brainer.

The rest of the Heralds party with the Exalted Locus of Beguilement, which gives her and the entire unit re-rolls to hit, her challenge can't be refused and she chooses who accepts.

The idea is:
Hug cover with 10x Daemonettes and get some points close to your table edge.
The rest rush up:
KoS, Running
Divination Herald + Screamers, TB
Seekers rush up with Herald, Running
All 3 Chariots, TB

Next turn, hopefully roll a 3 on your 20 unit block of Daemonettes.
Have it and the other unit of 20 Daemonttes come down right on top of the Seeker's Banner.

Your entire army is in his face by T2, with tons and tons of target saturation flooding the field.

Why buy the unit Champions? So in the event you roll a 3, you have 13 Champions to randomize on, preventing your precious Greater Daemon or other important Heralds from eating it.

Do infiltrator's let you take a non-infiltrating character with them? If so, I am going to have so much fun using nurgling's to drop off annoying sneaky herald payloads xD

But yes, played my first game today. I ran a monster mash, with no scoring on my daemon's chart (Nurgling's), but some allied typhus+plaguezombies for cheap scoring with a good bodyguard.

GUO, KOS, 2 nurgle flying princes with a nurgle psychic flamer/blast each, and a nurgle soulgrinder.

Greater daemons...are utter monster's. Especially with greater gift's making them super resilient. Not a single monstrous creature died, despite weathering some heavy fire.

I'm starting to think that greater gift's, are far better than psychic powers. Daemon princes of slaanesh can forfeit a greater power for the whip weapon, 2d6 strength 6 shot's with rending, with no perils, leadership check, or deny the witch to worry about. So they can fly about, vector striking and whipping people all day

Might make converting one of my daemon princes into slaanesh, just to try it out. Used to love nurgle princes, but since they are no longer tougness 6, it doesn't feel worth it.

Not that they were bad xD

Also, advice to players. Yes, it's cool to imagine greater daemons with iron arm and such, but really...they really don't need it. It's not worth the points, because odd's are, they are not gonna kill your big creatures. Not if you have a few.

Is there any word of the Daemon flyer??? Looking at either SW or DoC for 40k, which is easier to paint? and which easier to collect on a small income (I'm a student).

Plus, what weapons do Blood Letters have, are they still only AP3 swords? Haven't been in my LGS for a while.

Thx

 rednecroncryptek wrote:
Is there any word of the Daemon flyer??? Looking at either SW or DoC for 40k, which is easier to paint? and which easier to collect on a small income (I'm a student).

Plus, what weapons do Blood Letters have, are they still only AP3 swords? Haven't been in my LGS for a while.

Thx

No daemon flyer other than the monstrous flying creatures.

Bloodletter's have AP3 swords, but are only 10 points. Most people pay 10 points to get a power sword on someone, we get it allready on a tough model for 10 points

 labmouse42 wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
I'm curious to see what seasoned daemon players think of running a mono khorne. I know that the skull catapult is good, and a lot of people are jumping on board with Flesh hounds with karanak, but what else?

I also notice people complaining that slannesh got hurt, but I really don't see this. To me it looks like Tzeentch and Slannesh got the best of the new book, Nurgle being a very close second.

One thing I like is that you can start Karanak with a squad of 'letters. You then scout the khorne dogs and 'letters up 12" closer to the enemies face. On turn two you can move karanak back to the khorne dogs or let him hang out with the 'letters.
Add in 1-2 khorne heralds on juggs with axes to carve up some MEQ. That's one hard hitting death star thats getting a 2 turn assault.
The other 'letters are there to provide extra threat. Your major threat are the heralds, so both delivery mechanisms must be destroyed for the heralds to not get up close and personal.

Oh, and that's not counting all the other turn two assults you can do at the same time -- seekers, etc...

That is a neat little trick. I'm concerned about running Heralds on Juggs. If you plan on using them with Bloodcrushers they will suffer from majority toughness. I'm also starting to realize that the heavy support slots across most builds is pretty much going to be a mixture of Soul Grinders and Skull Catapults, unless someone is trying to run a flying circus build or uses an ADL.

I'm having a bit of trouble with my Nurgle list.

It's Epidemius. Is he any good? He's cheap, but aside from yhe tally, I don't know if he brings enough to games.

Also, what sort of size are we liking Plague Bearer squads now and are we using Nurgling as cover or Beasts?

Puscifer wrote:
I'm having a bit of trouble with my Nurgle list.

It's Epidemius. Is he any good? He's cheap, but aside from yhe tally, I don't know if he brings enough to games.

Also, what sort of size are we liking Plague Bearer squads now and are we using Nurgling as cover or Beasts?

I would drop Epi. I don't think he brings enough to the table anymore. The 6' bubble just kills his usefulness.

Are you taking a GUO? Taking a level 3 GUO with Biomancy, and 2 greater gifts, is fantastic, and very very good.

This is my list here...

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/511845.page

I took GUO first as I knew he was very good, but the rest of the list seems to fall apart afterwards.

Puscifer wrote:
I'm having a bit of trouble with my Nurgle list.

It's Epidemius. Is he any good? He's cheap, but aside from yhe tally, I don't know if he brings enough to games.

Also, what sort of size are we liking Plague Bearer squads now and are we using Nurgling as cover or Beasts?[/quote

Epidemius is still good, but only good as a herald, not as an armywide strategy. He is only a few points more than a normal nurgle herald, and could make a big PB horde killy. HE has a locus giving the squad poison anyway, which is good, and his stat's are really really good now for a 110 point model. No more hiding him though, yoiu have to get him into the thick of it, and most times his tally won't do much, but he is still a good herald nontheless.

Bring him in an army with 80 plaguebearers, and 3 other heralds.

It's Epidemius. Is he any good? He's cheap, but aside from yhe tally, I don't know if he brings enough to games.

Also, what sort of size are we liking Plague Bearer squads now and are we using Nurgling as cover or Beasts?[/quote

Epidemius is still good, but only good as a herald, not as an armywide strategy. He is only a few points more than a normal nurgle herald, and could make a big PB horde killy. HE has a locus giving the squad poison anyway, which is good, and his stat's are really really good now for a 110 point model. No more hiding him though, yoiu have to get him into the thick of it, and most times his tally won't do much, but he is still a good herald nontheless.

Bring him in an army with 80 plaguebearers, and 3 other heralds.

EDIT: Fixed quote bubble.

The Poison loci isn't very good, as it only takes effect on to hit rolls of 6's. Remember, the stronger Locus override the weaker ones, so if you throw a FNP Herald loci in there, it will override the weaker one. I think you're better off taking a Herald with FNP, and an Etherblade, over Epi.

 Sasori wrote:

 Evileyes wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
I'm having a bit of trouble with my Nurgle list.

It's Epidemius. Is he any good? He's cheap, but aside from yhe tally, I don't know if he brings enough to games.

Also, what sort of size are we liking Plague Bearer squads now and are we using Nurgling as cover or Beasts?[/quote

Epidemius is still good, but only good as a herald, not as an armywide strategy. He is only a few points more than a normal nurgle herald, and could make a big PB horde killy. HE has a locus giving the squad poison anyway, which is good, and his stat's are really really good now for a 110 point model. No more hiding him though, yoiu have to get him into the thick of it, and most times his tally won't do much, but he is still a good herald nontheless.

Bring him in an army with 80 plaguebearers, and 3 other heralds.

The Poison loci isn't very good, as it only takes effect on to hit rolls of 6's. Remember, the stronger Locus override the weaker ones, so if you throw a FNP Herald loci in there, it will override the weaker one. I think you're better off taking a Herald with FNP, and an Etherblade, over Epi.

Damn, I diddn't realise that...Ok, changed my mind, not worth it unless you want a strength 5 toughness 5 wounds 4 beatstick to soak up assault's for you.

 Evileyes wrote:
Daemon princes of slaanesh can forfeit a greater power for the whip weapon, 2d6 strength 6 shot's with rending, with no perils, leadership check, or deny the witch to worry about. So they can fly about, vector striking and whipping people all day

Note that the rending does not apply to the ranged weapon, only the hand to hand attacks.

Killjoy00 wrote:

 Evileyes wrote:
Daemon princes of slaanesh can forfeit a greater power for the whip weapon, 2d6 strength 6 shot's with rending, with no perils, leadership check, or deny the witch to worry about. So they can fly about, vector striking and whipping people all day

Note that the rending does not apply to the ranged weapon, only the hand to hand attacks.

Aah, that's a shame. It's still damn good though.

I've just been using Epi as a normal herald on a palanquin w/biomancy. GUO with biomancy 3 as well. Sometimes I won't have to iron arm my GUO, but there are lots of good spells in BM to help my guys out, especially adding FNP to my large squad of drones and a malediction to units already being tied down by large squads of PBs. Only big issue I've had so far is dealing with flyers.

 Swara wrote:
I've just been using Epi as a normal herald on a palanquin w/biomancy. GUO with biomancy 3 as well. Sometimes I won't have to iron arm my GUO, but there are lots of good spells in BM to help my guys out, especially adding FNP to my large squad of drones and a malediction to units already being tied down by large squads of PBs. Only big issue I've had so far is dealing with flyers.

Are the fliers particularly destructive - if not, then you can probably just ignore them, and focus on grabbing objectives + taking out enemy troopers
EDIT: Also just realised that you can have up to 6 MC's on the table at once if you ally with chaos, and have a DP lead them

 Gargantuan wrote:

Lovepug13 wrote:
I can see the random element causing some upset amongst players, I cannot believe that GW keep thinking that the randomness is actually fun.......I dislike they 40k system the more random elements are introduced.

I'm one of those players that enjoy random events and effects

Nothing screams old school warhammer chaos than random table rolls before a game. This used to be a constant part of playing chaos in the early days. In one battle a unit could be uber strong thanks to decent rolls on the mutations table, and the next it could be stupid, slow one-legged pointy headed morons. You just never knew what you were going to get. The only issue I have with it is that it does increase book keeping for each game, but I don't see that ruining it.

As a long time chaos player I am also quite happy to see some of the more offending units and builds toned down significantly in the new codex. No more abusing the Tally of Nurgle to provide for a nurgle marked FnP plague marine/cultist/daemon horde on the table, or over using flamers and screamers which had just been made too good in the White Dwarf update.

Skriker

Selym wrote:

 Swara wrote:
I've just been using Epi as a normal herald on a palanquin w/biomancy. GUO with biomancy 3 as well. Sometimes I won't have to iron arm my GUO, but there are lots of good spells in BM to help my guys out, especially adding FNP to my large squad of drones and a malediction to units already being tied down by large squads of PBs. Only big issue I've had so far is dealing with flyers.

Are the fliers particularly destructive - if not, then you can probably just ignore them, and focus on grabbing objectives + taking out enemy troopers
EDIT: Also just realised that you can have up to 6 MC's on the table at once if you ally with chaos, and have a DP lead them

They aren't too horrible. I was just ignoring them the past few games, only big harassment is the heldrake. Also, you can have all those and a heldrake. If you like nurgle you can have 12 (TWELVE) blight drones on top of that...

 Skriker wrote:

Nothing screams old school warhammer chaos than random table rolls before a game. This used to be a constant part of playing chaos in the early days. In one battle a unit could be uber strong thanks to decent rolls on the mutations table, and the next it could be stupid, slow one-legged pointy headed morons. You just never knew what you were going to get. The only issue I have with it is that it does increase book keeping for each game, but I don't see that ruining it.

The problem I have with it is that is throws the whole idea of playing a fair game out the window. Seriously, if we're playing a 1000 point game and my 300 point HQ just obliterates himself before turn one because of warp storms, now it's 700 to 1000. How is this fun for me or my opponent?

I have no problem with randomness being a large part of games, IF those games are short. MtG can use crazy wacky randomness because a game might last 15 minutes at most. However, If I'm dedicating two or more hours to playing a game with someone, I want to actually enjoy that time, not be hamstrung from turn one because of some random event. The longer a game lasts, the less impact isolated random events should have (And yes, 40k is a game based on dice, but there's a huge difference between the managable probabilities involved in shooting (for example) and the game changing single-die events that this codex is in love with.)