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davethepak wrote:


Question: any one have a information on what the range is for a burst cannon in the new dex from a SOLID SOURCE?

thanks,

I can't give my source on this one, but I've been told that the Burst Cannon is 18" and the Heavy Burst Cannon is 36".

Suits and Piranha get the Burst Cannon whereas everything else is the Heavy Burst Cannon.

My source was a credible supplier of info for the Dark Angel Codex just before 6th came out, so I am ready to believe them.

Makes sense really.

I wonder if they have changed the ROF?

 megatrons2nd wrote:

 SabrX wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Im seeing a lot of angst here, having played Tau since they first came out I only see positives here. Anyone thats butthurt about something like a 6" loss in range of a pulse rifle doesnt really know how to play Tau IMO. Is it unfortunate? Yes. Are Firewarriors still one of the best troops choices in game? Yes.

If the rumors that they are 9 points a pop is true while retaining BS3 24" Str5 AP5 with 4+ save, then yes. They definitely are still one of the best troop choices in the game.

Sure they are, as soon as marines cost 20 points per model, orcs cost 8 points, and Dire Avengers cost 15 points. The Only thing Fire warriors have going for them is the better gun, and the barely understood supporting fire rule(which I don't think will allow them to fire more than 1 overwatch usage in an assault phase).

A good comparison at 9 points is the Kabalite Warriors. Who hit more often, have a comparable weapon(it is better in some areas and worse in others), better LD, worse armor, faster, better WS, fleet, PFP, and Night vision for free. With the attainable Fearless, and FNP the Kabalites are better than a FW hands down.

If everything in the Tau army operated in a vacuum, I think they would be a good comparison.

Unfortunately we do not have all the information in hand yet. But considering that the Tau have always been presented as a synergy infused army I do not think it would be too far of a stretch to think such a thing is going to happen again.

 Minx wrote:

I guess it will only affect the accompanying pathfinders; no bubble, no FWs.

Assuming that with the proliferation of new drones, Fire warriors cannot take any of them. Just because the models are in the pathfinder kit does not mean that those drones are limited to pathfinders- look at Marker Drones and Shield drones in the previous book.

I bet Grav-inhibitors half charge ranges.

Or they might do something to initiative.

Who knows!

Puscifer wrote:

davethepak wrote:


Question: any one have a information on what the range is for a burst cannon in the new dex from a SOLID SOURCE?
thanks,

I can't give my source on this one, but I've been told that the Burst Cannon is 18" and the Heavy Burst Cannon is 36".
Suits and Piranha get the Burst Cannon whereas everything else is the Heavy Burst Cannon.
My source was a credible supplier of info for the Dark Angel Codex just before 6th came out, so I am ready to believe them.

If this is true, than its very sad indeed. Now, I know others may disagree, and perhaps there are some play styles for others that work for them, but in my experience as successful tau player (played them consistently throughout 5th - never shelved them, even at tournaments) I have found the burst cannon to be of very low value. 18" range, especially now with increased charge distances is ..um..not very useful. Even a storm bolter is 24".

I will try and wait and see how the stealth suits work out, but unless there are some other VERY significant changes to them, my xv15 and xv25's may not see a lot of play.

thanks for the update.

As far as the firewarrior rumors....well, I hope they don't come with photon grenades and have only 24" pulse rifles ....thats ...ugly.
The option for either photon or emp, now that, that would be good...but again, we should know in a week.

 SonicPara wrote:

If it is a bubble then that is a significant step in the right direction.

I really hope they are not bubble effect, in fact I hope there are no bubble effect rules or wargear in the codex at all. I think they are annoying to play and poor, unimaginative game design.

 Kanluwen wrote:

If everything in the Tau army operated in a vacuum, I think they would be a good comparison.

Unfortunately we do not have all the information in hand yet. But considering that the Tau have always been presented as a synergy infused army I do not think it would be too far of a stretch to think such a thing is going to happen again.

If everything in any army operated in a vacuum. Add in other units with those Kabalites, and the Fire Warriors look even worse. There is always the waiting, but The rumor of 9 points, with no change(or reducing the range by 6", and adding photon grenades) and a rule that lets them use up their overwatch to help another unit, does not bode well for the cost. Fire Warriors are currently outclassed in everything except their weapon, and that is rumored to get worse. Synergy is meant to make things better, not to bring it to the standard. There is the rumor of a drone that increases the range by 6", we don't know the cost but I can almost guarantee that is will be more than 12 points(which would bring them to the same range/cost as now).

If the vespid rumor of having a 4+ save si true im going to have to find a way get around the hideous wings.

Puscifer wrote:

davethepak wrote:


Question: any one have a information on what the range is for a burst cannon in the new dex from a SOLID SOURCE?

thanks,

I can't give my source on this one, but I've been told that the Burst Cannon is 18" and the Heavy Burst Cannon is 36".

Suits and Piranha get the Burst Cannon whereas everything else is the Heavy Burst Cannon.

My source was a credible supplier of info for the Dark Angel Codex just before 6th came out, so I am ready to believe them.

Why he doesnt get the pulse rifle range that WAAAAAAY more people care about we'll never know lol

What im kinda sad is that the Tracker rumor isnt anywhere :(
There goes my kroot calvary on wolfs.

I'm really hoping to see a change in the burst cannon. It's supposed to be our version of the heavy bolter, but its almost worse than the standard weapons in just about every way and is almost a waste on crisis suits.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
If the vespid rumor of having a 4+ save si true im going to have to find a way get around the hideous wings.

I too could not stand the stock wings on those things - I replaced mine with some insect wings (dragonfly I think) that i found online, and have seen a few other conversions out there as well.

I like the models overall, and hope that the new vespid are decent.

I like the current burst cannon, but it would be nice if it gained one shot or 6" range, either one would be okay by me. As is, it is a tad bit underwhelming. Differentiating between suit and vehicle variants would also be great.

Anyone else notice the massive amount of big brass balls on all the new models?

 Desubot wrote:
Anyone else notice the massive amount of big brass balls on all the new models?

it's their new dig like skulls or eagles on imperial vehicles

 Desubot wrote:
Anyone else notice the massive amount of big brass balls on all the new models?

Nope, this is Pg-13 game remember?

Hans_Einberg wrote:
Kroothawk i need to thank you for that.

as i was watching that video my wife walked in the room and saw the riptide standing beside a pathfinder or FW
just said; your going to buy that right? , i replied with a nervous yes as she is usually hesitant to let me buy toys. or at least gives me a hard time over it.
she replies : good, it looks like it can kick some ass.

she can get very competitive when watching me play warhammer...

Gotta love it when the Wifey gives you permission to kick ass!

I just hope i figured out the tax right in cali so i have enough money.

 SonicPara wrote:

 boy wonder wrote:
I care not for points!!

yeah im one of those players im afraid... I simply make a list that resonates with me.. and the idea (although not the models) of the fireblades appeal to me.

That is truly a great way to play 40K (not sarcastic) but in all seriousness if you aren't adhering to 100% of the rules that the codex is balanced to then you don't have a good perspective to discuss proper costing and balancing changes.

New Firewarriors have gotten weaker and in order to retain their current offensive firepower you must pay MORE points than their current costs. Pulse Rifles in general sound like a waste of time now and it seems that carbines will be the way to go. Also, it may be back to skeleton units of FW hiding in Devilfish again as the army will not have that strong troops backbone that it so sorely requires.

Making it possible to invest in Firewarriors to make them serviceable is not an acceptable alternative to having them not be garbage to start.

You guys are assuming that FWs will still be allowed to take Pulse Carbines.
Amusing...

davethepak wrote:
As far as the firewarrior rumors....well, I hope they don't come with photon grenades and have only 24" pulse rifles ....thats ...ugly.

On page 25 of the White Dwarf, if you squint just right, you'll see on the Firewarrior page from the codex that they have Combat Armor, Pulse Rifle, and Photon Grenades.

I don't see why people are so interested in them getting grenades. With their statline they are so terrible in combat that they will still end up losing combat by enough to fail morale checks.

And realistically overwatch is the only chance FW will get to wound in the assault phase. Which makes sense I guess. Gives them the ability to do some damage while still making them terrible in close combat.

davethepak wrote:
As far as the firewarrior rumors....well, I hope they don't come with photon grenades and have only 24" pulse rifles ....thats ...ugly.

On page 25 of the White Dwarf, if you squint just right, you'll see on the Firewarrior page from the codex that they have Combat Armor, Pulse Rifle, and Photon Grenades.

If emp gets Haywire, we will get some pretty cool toys to destroy tanks and stuff.
I really hope there is something in the codex with Haywire.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I don't see why people are so interested in them getting grenades. With their statline they are so terrible in combat that they will still end up losing combat by enough to fail morale checks.

And realistically overwatch is the only chance FW will get to wound in the assault phase. Which makes sense I guess. Gives them the ability to do some damage while still making them terrible in close combat.

Exactly - you DON"T want defensive grenades with their statline - because they might survive the first assault only to die in your turn.

Which, is bad..

davethepak wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I don't see why people are so interested in them getting grenades. With their statline they are so terrible in combat that they will still end up losing combat by enough to fail morale checks.

And realistically overwatch is the only chance FW will get to wound in the assault phase. Which makes sense I guess. Gives them the ability to do some damage while still making them terrible in close combat.

Exactly - you DON"T want defensive grenades with their statline - because they might survive the first assault only to die in your turn.

Which, is bad..

When a unit Goes to Ground, it can still fire Overwatch, but can't use defensive grenades. So if you're certain a charge will succeed, go to ground right after the enemy fires their pistols.

 Archonate wrote:
You guys are assuming that FWs will still be allowed to take Pulse Carbines.
Amusing...

How soul crushingly astute.

I have the new White Dwarf and can confirm the following:

Rules:
-"Recon Armor" is a 5+ save.
- Kroot and Vespid are still in the game-- there is also an entry for "Kroot Armor," providing a 6+. From the description it sounds like all Kroot likely have it, but this is not clear.
-Stealth Suits are still Elites and Shadowsun does not make them Troops as rumored earlier
-Pathfinders are Fast Attack.
-Submunition rounds are listed in the army list entry for the Hammerhead and may be an upgrade.
-Units appear to be able to take drones without a Drone Controller-- each of the four Fire Warrior squads in the battle report is listed as having a Gun Drone despite no controller, while one Pathfinder squad has a Recon Drone and one has a Grav-Inhibitor Drone without a controller. Both Broadside teams also have Marker Drones without a Drone Controller for them.
-The failsafe detonator option is still in the game and is seen on a Bodyguard suit in the battle report, though it is not used.
-The Hive Tyrant is mentioned as "failing to glance" the Sun Shark when it Vector Strikes it, implying the Sun Shark has AV12 side armor. However, its two sets of twin-linked devourers inflict a Crew Stunned result on the Sun Shark later in the battle report, indicating that the Sun Shark's rear armor is weaker. The Interceptor Drones from the Sun Shark look to be mounted on very very high flying stands once detached, so it is not clear what exactly they count as.
-Shadowsun can fire at two separate targets in the Shooting phase-- on one turn she shoots a Tervigon with one shot and a Carnifex with another.
-Gun Drone units are still in the game, as are Sniper Drones.
-The overall theme for the army is that they are supposed to be focused entirely on the use of ranged weapons, but still have enough mobility to move to better positions or avoid risks.

Fluff
-Farsight is still a rebel, the Dawn Blade is still an alien artifact, and Farsight has still lived for a mysteriously long time.
-Commander Shadowsun is now supposed to be the "focal character of the Tau Empire," with Aun'Va leading the Empire spiritually and Shadowsun leading it on the battlefield.
-The fluff is overall still considered optimistic, with sinister or dark elements present only as undertones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Archonate wrote:
You guys are assuming that FWs will still be allowed to take Pulse Carbines.
Amusing...

The bestiary entry for Fire Warriors shown in White Dwarf says that Fire Warriors can be equipped with either Pulse Rifles or Pulse Carbines, so it looks like no worries there. Besides, I doubt GW would take an option like that away from the army, especially since the pulse carbines are physically present on Fire Warrior sprues...

I love these people posting every page now with the 'stuff they can confirm from the WD" that like, 50 people before them have already confirmed from the WD

 Roleplayer wrote:
I love these people posting every page now with the 'stuff they can confirm from the WD" that like, 50 people before them have already confirmed from the WD

how many people are going to read through all of the pages? Also if you look at eash post, not everyone hasposted the same level of depth of information. They usually post what they think was important to them. Kingsley has (imho) out done himself once again.