Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

overtyrant wrote:
Your always going to have this problem with stats when using a D6 system, it simply just does not let you have much variation in stats. It's fine for a mass battle system like 40k as using D8, D10 and different stateline would take far to long.

Just like the combat system in 2nd ed. It was great but would take too long for today's games.

I am in a love hate relationship with bs3. On the one hand I love the idea of poor shooting skill being overcome with markerlights and low bs makes markerlights worth taking. I also like that it makes tau feel more like a focused army compared to others. I hate that in a practical sense it sucks having bs3. Missing half your shots suck and you feel super gimped without marker lights. So I am glad they kept bs at 3 (for firewarriors at least) and i really hope that pathfinders will be cheaper. I am worried that with a FA flyer pathfinders won't have a slot.

As for mobility of firewarriors I personally play them two ways. If they are in a fish, I zoom up, unload in rapid fire range and mow down the unit I am targeting, then I get back in the fish. If I am on foot, I move up to a point where I can fire and sit there until something starts coming my way and then I fall back. The double shot for the fw in a fish is not great but the ones on foot it is a nice bonus.

BS3 doesn't bother me.

There are ways to make it better that are unique to tau and make them entertaining to play.

Puscifer wrote:
BS3 doesn't bother me.

There are ways to make it better that are unique to tau and make them entertaining to play.

Agreed. I actually think BS3 base is a good design decision for Tau because it means that Targeting Arrays, Markerlights, etc. have an interesting place in the army as a whole-- even if, as some pointed out earlier, it doesn't really make all that much sense.

Indeed.....a bit of resource management never hurt anyone lol

The Dude wrote:Im told Enforcer Armour is nothing special rules-wise, but that's not 100%.

Also, Ethereals buff units within 12" with one of 4 effects, one for each caste/element:

Fire= extra shot with pulse weapons (This looks to stack with Fireblade's Volley Fire for 4 shots per Fire Warrior)

Earth= 6+ Feel No Pain

Air= unit may run then snapshot with their weapons.

Water= source couldn't remember.

Aun 'Va may apparently issue two of these buffs per turn.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Do Tau still have the very poor depth perception that their tech helps compensate for?

AFAIK this was dropped in the current Codex, as it was a cheap joke using Anti-Japanese propaganda.

Some things that I noticed from the battle report in WD:
Stealth Suits (and possibly others) get Homing Beacons
Pathfinders no longer require a Devilfish
Nothing hinted at range changes for Pulse Rifles or Hammerheads.

Also: Commander Battlesuit only comes with CIB, AFP and Plasma Rifle, no other weapons.

Fire= extra shot with pulse weapons (This looks to stack with Fireblade's Volley Fire for 4 shots per Fire Warrior)

Oh hell yes. If FW squads stay at a max of 12 guys then ....ouch. 48 shots per squad is gonna sting.

"What's that horde armies? I couldn't hear you over the sound massed pulse fire"

I refuse to believe that the commander is stuck in one loadout. The whole point of the suits was the modular loadouts.

Am I the only one here hoping for Hammerhead squads? Tank spam with proper looking tanks would be fun as heck. And yes, I know it isn't likely to happen. Just let me dream.

Gifblaur wrote:
I refuse to believe that the commander is stuck in one loadout. The whole point of the suits was the modular loadouts.

Don't worry, Commanders are still modular. Trasvi was referring to the new Finecast Commander kit, not to the Commander rules in game.

In fact, the WD battle report features a Command Suit with a large array of wargear: twin-linked fusion blasters, a shield generator, "Iridium Battlesuit" (probably the old Iridium Plating upgrade with a new name), a bonding knife, the still-mysterious Puretide engram neurochip (I've heard this lets you pick your Warlord trait but cannot confirm this), a Drone Controller, and a Marker and Shield Drone (phew!).

GAH! if the ethereals have that ability im stuck!.. I love having a battlesuit commander and I think the model is awesome. I managed to get hold of one of those super rare fire warriors from 2001/02 for use as a fireblade... and now I want an ethereal as well? damn youse GW!! too many HQ choices!!

 Kingsley wrote:
In fact, the WD battle report features a Command Suit with a large array of wargear: twin-linked fusion blasters, a shield generator, "Iridium Battlesuit" (probably the old Iridium Plating upgrade with a new name), a bonding knife, the still-mysterious Puretide engram neurochip (I've heard this lets you pick your Warlord trait but cannot confirm this), a Drone Controller, and a Marker and Shield Drone (phew!).

That's a fair whack of kit the commander has. I wonder if things have gotten cheaper points wise?

 Snrub wrote:

 Kingsley wrote:
In fact, the WD battle report features a Command Suit with a large array of wargear: twin-linked fusion blasters, a shield generator, "Iridium Battlesuit" (probably the old Iridium Plating upgrade with a new name), a bonding knife, the still-mysterious Puretide engram neurochip (I've heard this lets you pick your Warlord trait but cannot confirm this), a Drone Controller, and a Marker and Shield Drone (phew!).

That's a fair whack of kit the commander has. I wonder if things have gotten cheaper points wise?

I don't know why, but I find the Farsight model to be far, far better than the generic XV8 commander. The XV8 has everything that we've been asking for - more realistic joints, longer limbs, hands that work, more detail on all panels... yet it somehow just looks 'stretched' - I think the post also doesn't help with this. Farsight on the other hand has a much more dynamic pose, and looks a bit more solid than the other commander.

Also: dId anyone with the 'Nids codex add up the cost of their army? That would give us estimates within a couple dozen points on the cost of new stuff.

the battle report didn't even use the FOC and had all kinds of odd rules... im certain that points values weren't equal although you can prob get a rough idea. I put that nid army at around 2500

The white dwarf tyranid force added up to 2498 points, with options as listed.

The tau army comes to roughly 1900 points from the current book, excluding new units.

I have no idea how many points of deathwatch were used, or if they factored the DW points cost into the tau roster somehow.

and that factors NO points changes. I think armys were chosen just for the scenario and points limits were flexible.

hotsauceman1 wrote:If the vespid rumor of having a 4+ save si true im going to have to find a way get around the hideous wings.

Try Scourge Bat Wings. I think they'd fit nicely.

Captain Avatar wrote:

Spoiler:

Puscifer wrote:
Is mobility for FW a big thing?

We know they are basically IG vets with a nice gun and worse combat skills. So would it help if they were played like they were marching up next to a vehicle and gaining cover saves like some Guard players? I used the tactic and it worked well to a point, but Guard have Leman Russ variants for every job and Vets can pack lots of special weapons.

I never noticed the Alien Guard similarities. Good call there. I fully expect squadrons of Hammerheads.

Yes, mobility for Fire Warriors is a very big thing. Tau don't have the numbers to set a cheap gun-line blob and fire until they get assaulted. The Tau fluff reflects this in stating that the Tau eschew attrition warfare and that they do not fight to hold positions but will withdraw rather than to be caught in hth. The Tau are supposed to represent Manouever Warfare. Admittedly, GW has done a poor job representing this on the game board, but there was hope that the Tau would get a version of the very Tau-ish combat tactics voluntary fallback rule. This static nonsense just doesn't fit.

BTW, just a nit pick, but Tau FWs are regular guard equivalent not vets. This is what annoys many Tau players. You have an entire caste of a race that focuses solely on ranged warfare, they start with BS3 and never get better. This is how the Tau ability/rank track goes::
Shas'la are BS3
Shas'ui are BS3 and get ld8
Shas'ui Battlesuit is still BS3 ldrshp 8
Shas'vre Battlesuits are BS3 ldshp 8 and get WS3???
Shas 'el Battlesuits finally get BS4 and ldshp 9
Shas'o battlesuits get BS5 and ldshp 10

Spoiler:

Though rumours suggest that the last 2 may be changing in some way. Thing is that each of these ranks take about 4 years(equates to about 8 years for a human). There is just no measurable improvement in basic ability until you get to what would be considered notable heros. Compound this fact with Shas'ui battlesuit and up are wearing "Hi Tech" battlesuits with built in targeting systems and the Tau BS 3 just becomes a bad joke.
Don't get me wrong, I don't feel that BS FW's are bad. I think that they are right on the mark. The BS3 battlesuits on the other hand are highly counter-intuitive and just seem like a lazy choice that justifies upping unit size instead.

Now, I do not expect for the hammerheads to come in squadrons,...Would be nice to have teams of 2 but is the kind of goodness that GW reserves for Imperium factions.


edit to add:
'd
Or you can ignore my long winded post and just use what Killkrazy so eloquently and efficiently wrote.

Ay, when the Tau promotion structure is basically 'be good enough or die', combined with bionic upgrades, superb targetting arrays and increasingly better equipment that it's a pretty static line through Shas'la, ui, vre, el, o is maddening to me.
I feel if should be along the lines of Shas'la, WS2, BS3, Ld7, that's fine. Then a 'ui is 2/4/8, 'vre 3/5/9, 'el 3/6/10 and 'o being 4/7/10.
But hey, that's me.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Do Tau still have the very poor depth perception that their tech helps compensate for?

No, it is supposedly rapid focussing rather than depth perception.

Though from the viewpoint of optical physics that is a stupid idea anyway.

Still, fluff is supposed to make for an exciting background rather than control game rules.

I agree with above view points about BS 3 being fine

I hope that fireblades can take a pulse carbine so I have a good use for this guy.....

MajorWesJanson wrote:

They aren't going to take away an option that is in the box set.

The carnifex kit would like a word with you. It contains plenty of options no longer found in the codex: acid maw, implant attack, thornback, mace tail, scythe tail, spore cysts, tusked, and enhanced senses.

 boy wonder wrote:
I hope that fireblades can take a pulse carbine so I have a good use for this guy.....

> Put a blade on it

> Say that its a gun that fires swords. Because he's a fire blade

Give me a moment to find my jaw, just saw the new riptide... God Emperor be Damned, its beautiful

 Arschbombe wrote:

MajorWesJanson wrote:

They aren't going to take away an option that is in the box set.

The carnifex kit would like a word with you. It contains plenty of options no longer found in the codex: acid maw, implant attack, thornback, mace tail, scythe tail, spore cysts, tusked, and enhanced senses.

Oh great, cause I needed existential dread over what other horrors they could inflict upon tau. Well I'm just happy we got an author who isn't the unnameable one or crudace. Would've prefered Kelly but hey, you can only get so much right?

I remember a rumor from a while back that I don't think I've heard trashed on, that firewarriors would have a paid upgrade to boost their BS that wasn't a markerlight. Still hoping it's true, just like I'm still hoping that targeting arrays are cheap and don't take up a system slot just like multitrackers.

Oh and Arshbombe, you one of the hobbit or guild crew? Or is your location an artefact?

 carabine wrote:

Oh and Arshbombe, you one of the hobbit or guild crew? Or is your location an artefact?

I'm actually a Hit Point guy.

I was thinking the same thing. Not a big fan of the Fireblade model but I think he will be a great character for the Tau. That limited edition pathfinder model should do the trick.

As far as the BS3 thing, that's fine with me. With a good amount of markerlights you should be hitting on 2's or 3's anyway and stripping cover if you have enough tokens. That's what make Tau great. You need a unit or two to disappear, drop 16 markerlights at it and watch all your units hit on 2's or 3's for an entire turn. Bye Bye said enemy.

These characters that add a +1 to the amount of shots for shooting to a unit and the other that strips a point of Toughness will help out a lot. You have 5 terminators in front of you and you have 1/3 more shoots and they have T3now, throw in a few markerlights. It's night night time from simply 2 firewarrior teams, maybe even one if you're lucky. 60 shots all hitting on 2's and half of those wounding on 2's.

 Kingsley wrote:

-The fluff is overall still considered optimistic, with sinister or dark elements present only as undertones.

Perfect. Keep it subtle and suspicious, but don't overexplain it.

I am very confident Firewarriors will keep both options. All those carnifex things for example can still be used just to add 'character' to the model.

(and no one uses carnifexes anyway! har har)

in the WD there are codex pages showing fire wrriors with carbines. calm down people

I can confirm that there is a photo floating around from either the codex or WD that shows 2 hammerheads, 1 skyray and some broadsides on the same table.

Take from this whatever you will.