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 Materia_Master wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:

 SabrX wrote:
@Kroothawk:

Sorry for repeatedly bringing up this issue, but any word on whether the Ethereal's "Stay Calm" rule affects all Kroots? The Spanish translation wasn't really clear. Confirmation from an english codex would be nice.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Also seems like Kroot are able to utilize markers as well. I wonder if ethereal buffs effect them too

SWEET!!! Markerlights increasing Kroot's ballistic skill??? Mass Kroots is the way to go.

All ethereal effects are valid for all friendly (for invocations add non-vehicle) units from this Codex within 12", so include Kroot.
Markerlight effects can be used by all units from this Codex, just not the unit that shot the markerlight.

That last sentance you said....

So squads can utilize their markerlights shot by someone in their own squad? So all markerlights are now "networked"?

I ask because that's really the reason I never gave my shas'ui FW leaders markerlights, their own squad could never benefit from it. So can their own squads benefit from it now?

I don't think Pathfinder Markerlights are networked but I would imagine all the ones you can stick on a team leader will be.

Anyone know what the bonding knife ritual does yet?

I take it Firewarriors still only have access to Pulse Rifles and Carbines? No special weapons or drones like the Pathfinders?

Also, what's looking better for this codex; rifles or carbines?

Firewarrior shas'ui can take missile drones, but i dont think the missile pod is twinlinked


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rifles combined with the fireblade are pretty sweet, carbines might make Fish of Fury a little more popular

 Medium of Death wrote:
I take it Firewarriors still only have access to Pulse Rifles and Carbines? No special weapons or drones like the Pathfinders?

Also, what's looking better for this codex; rifles or carbines?

Eh... hard to say, carbines have assault 2, 18". They also have Pinning.
on the other hand, rifles have rapid fire 30", 2 shots at 15".

As of now, I'd say Rifles have a slight advantage, but both are pretty damn good. If you play agressive and against teams that are vulnerable to leadership saves, carbines may be better. If you play defensively or against things that laugh at leadership values, rifles maybe?

mothman_451 wrote:
Thats a daemon rules leak :p


Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://forofreakfactory.mforos.com/1035375/11167664-rumores-tau/

I fixed it up lol.

Again - we have two versions of "Advanced Targeting Array" - one for the Battlesuits and one for the Vehicles.

We already have multi-trackers for the Battlesuits so could these be the Target Array we are missing?

As seeing that the drone controller is listed under support systems in the picture could some one with a book confirm exactly what it does? my craving for missile stealth cloud is insatiable.

 Desubot wrote:
As seeing that the drone controller is listed under support systems in the picture could some one with a book confirm exactly what it does? my craving for missile stealth cloud is insatiable.

It allows the drones purchased by the unit to fire at the controllers BS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gr1m_dan wrote:
Again - we have two versions of "Advanced Targeting Array" - one for the Battlesuits and one for the Vehicles.

We already have multi-trackers for the Battlesuits so could these be the Target Array we are missing?

Nope. Just gives precision shots. If the model is already a precision shooter (character) then it can precision shot on to hits of 5 and 6.

 gr1m_dan wrote:
Again - we have two versions of "Advanced Targeting Array" - one for the Battlesuits and one for the Vehicles.

We already have multi-trackers for the Battlesuits so could these be the Target Array we are missing?

No, apparently it gives Precision shot. Surely it would cost more if it was +1BS.

So Targeting Array really IS removed. This is really lame, perhaps biggest kick in the teeth for me. I'm not going to be very interested about vehicles if they are just BS3, and huge amount of fun from battlesuit equipping is removed. Meh.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

It allows the drones purchased by the unit to fire at the controllers BS.

AHHHH soo much lame.

Ok, well there goes that dream.

 Therion wrote:

 gr1m_dan wrote:

 Therion wrote:
Looks pretty clear from the pictures that a marker light hit (counter) can be used (expended / removed after use) by a Tau unit which is shooting at the said target to grant itself special abilities for example +1 BS, and doesn't give a flat +1 BS to every Tau unit firing at the lit target unit. A single Tau unit ignoring the cover saves of one enemy target unit seems to cost 2 marker light counters. Marker lights seem quite rubbishy.

Really?

I honestly disagree with you massively - 2 ML negate ALL cover. Not take it down by 1 Cover per hit. 2 MLS take away that 4+ ADL save completely or 3+ Fortification save. Gone to ground behind ADL??? I don't care - I only need to spend 2 ML instead of 5 (as per old Codex if I remember). This is immense IMO.

Sure. Then one of your Tau units ignores the target's cover saves entirely for one shooting phase. Unless marker lights are dirt cheap / near free I wouldn't really call that a force multiplier / a good synergy element at all. It's all in the points costs of course whether marker lights are a point sink or something really necessary.

Then I have to say sir, that your comment shows a consideralbe lack of experience in playing tau in the previous book.

Marker lights were very essential, and may be even more so in this book. Why? because railguns are based on quality rather than quantity.
A hammer head is not twin linked, and you don't have multi-meltas running around everywhere and missiles as an option for every unit.

A railgun round HAS to hit, and you don't want a cover save messing it up. Markerlights enabled this in the old book.
Now that we have fewer S10 shots - they are even more critical (note, the volume of S7 may or may not help this - ask me a year).
This became even MORE important in 6th...with jink saves, and vehicles getting cover easier.

I play tau - a lot. They have been my primary army all through 5th and 6th edition, at most tourney's I am "the tau guy" because I ran tau when everyone was "counts as" for space wolves and grey knights (I retired my GK when the book dropped - they were embarassing) - and I did very well with them (got 3rd place overall in one large event, and 3rd genearl in a league).

So, with all due resepct, I am just going to say that the new markers are far from rubbish - they are actually better (and perhaps more useful) than before.

Hmm...to be honest I only ever used the TA on very few units so it's not a great loss for me.

Twin Linked Plasma is now 20 points which is frankly madness. Amazed that TL Missile Pod is the same but given how many missiles we can put out I'm guessing Plasma/Fusion suits will be the way forward. TL Plasma and a Fusion? Ouch!

Is TL BS3 better then BS4?

Because now it costs 10 points cheaper for TL Plasma plus no TA.

no one? Bonding knife ritual; what does it do?

 gr1m_dan wrote:


Is TL BS3 better then BS4?

Because now it costs 10 points cheaper for TL Plasma plus no TA.

Yes, because TL BS3 will hit 75% of the time. Straight up BS4 only hits 66% of the time.

Which is why I think they more or less removed the traditional target lock. Now that you can get TL weapon + another weapon for about the same price as before (and still shoot both) it became a bit of a wash, but TL BS 4 would probably be a bit broken if taken in mass.

The loss of the TA really bothers me. Again we see the weird idea that Tau don't go above BS3 until we get to HQ levels. For a precision shooting army it's silly and will make pathfinders (or tetras in my case) more of a necessity if you're wanting multiple weapons in a squad.

It was mentioned earlier in the thread that it appears to allow a unit to regroup under 25% with no minuses to the roll

davou wrote:
no one? Bonding knife ritual; what does it do?

Same as heroic morale from the independent character special rule.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
The loss of the TA really bothers me. Again we see the weird idea that Tau don't go above BS3 until we get to HQ levels. For a precision shooting army it's silly and will make pathfinders (or tetras in my case) more of a necessity if you're wanting multiple weapons in a squad.

Granted but given that we have A LOT of places to get MLs from now and that Marker drones got significantly cheaper plus MLs for Team Leaders are 5pts (sure I read that right) we will have quite a good output without just having to relay on Pathfinders.

Now we have 10pt cheaper TL Plasma Rifles that frees up a slot for something nifty and new. If you want to really go to town on a squad of MEQ for example then get some ML in to them plus lots of TL Rapid fire plasma rifles at BS4/5 ?

 tetrisphreak wrote:

davou wrote:
no one? Bonding knife ritual; what does it do?

Same as heroic morale from the independent character special rule.

Much thanks, this thread has gotten hard to find info in

 Jayden63 wrote:

Yes, because TL BS3 will hit 75% of the time. Straight up BS4 only hits 66% of the time.

Which is why I think they more or less removed the traditional target lock. Now that you can get TL weapon + another weapon for about the same price as before (and still shoot both) it became a bit of a wash, but TL BS 4 would probably be a bit broken if taken in mass.

So maybe make it so it can't be taken - like in, oh, in the previous codex?

Really, Battlesuit armoury was one and only thing which was right in the old book. All they had to do was not touch it, but now, it's totally dumbed down. Not to mention that there is just one generic commander, no more Shas'El/Shas'O.

Oh, and what about all those who assured that losing Railguns is no big deal since new & improved Fusion Blaster will take care of your anti-armour needs? Sorry, they're all BS3. Piranha is even more worthless now - I can't figure why I could possibly want to field one. Devilfish's new & improved firepower is also wasted now.

Everything is base BS3.

Can you imagine if we had so much BS4 (as everyone seems to want) AND have the amount of Markerlights we have access to now!?!?

It would be borderline stupid.

For us Mech Tau lovers, the lack of a multitracker equivalent on our vehicles is going to hurt. A lot. Not being able to fire as a fast vehicle is really going to put a dent in our mobility. BSF are cheaper, but with DPods only getting a +1 cover save, that makes our survivability worse, and at a greater cost.

That said, getting a Point Defense System for DFish almost makes sense, as all their weapons are S5 or less. This would let them support their passengers close-in after they got dropped off, and would significantly increase the available Supporting Fire.

Weapon systems on Crisis look to be priced so that things even out to the old suit costs, more or less, for the common weapon loadouts. Some things got cheaper, but overall, roughly the same. The low price of twin-linked weapons definitely compensates for BS3 and lack of TAs. One thing I think a lot of folks may be overlooking is that since Flamers are only 5pts each, and you can take 3 weapons on a suit, it almost makes sense to throw a few in each unit of Crisis as charge deterrents. Not to mention their utility in clearing squishies off of objectives so that your troops can waltz in like they own the place... because they do.

double post

Backfire wrote:

 Jayden63 wrote:

Yes, because TL BS3 will hit 75% of the time. Straight up BS4 only hits 66% of the time.

Which is why I think they more or less removed the traditional target lock. Now that you can get TL weapon + another weapon for about the same price as before (and still shoot both) it became a bit of a wash, but TL BS 4 would probably be a bit broken if taken in mass.

So maybe make it so it can't be taken - like in, oh, in the previous codex?

Really, Battlesuit armoury was one and only thing which was right in the old book. All they had to do was not touch it, but now, it's totally dumbed down. Not to mention that there is just one generic commander, no more Shas'El/Shas'O.

Oh, and what about all those who assured that losing Railguns is no big deal since new & improved Fusion Blaster will take care of your anti-armour needs? Sorry, they're all BS3. Piranha is even more worthless now - I can't figure why I could possibly want to field one. Devilfish's new & improved firepower is also wasted now.

Another person that makes me lol's

Really? The book sucks guys, no one needs to buy it. Everyone knows this *rolls eyes* Come on now. You are telling me that they suck before the dex is even released offically. Are all of you naysayers forgetting that this is a game, on a table, with terrain, and you use dice, to you know, roll and stuff.

This is what I see. I see balanced point reductions, great improvements that were CRIED for with great gnashing of teeth in the last edition. I hear of GREAT fluff (which is usually so rare that I almost cried for joy). I see more options in an army that was loved for its great models and the amount of versatility that came with those models. I also see AMAZING Synergy.

As for your cry on the BS of the units. Boo Hoo! You have marker lights! You have access to a system that lets you BOOST your BS to amazing heights, or ignore cover COMPLETLY! 2 ML's and the Skimmer, or flyer no longer gets thier save. Seems big to me!

So please please PLEASE continue to naysay. I beg of you. Please continue so I can continue to laugh!

Nice thing about having a finesse army that requires skill? It usually helps keep the bandwagon kiddies away.

Not that I'm dissing easy-to-learn-and-easy-to-master armies, I love me a good space marine ally, but having an army that is great if you know what to do, and punishing if you screw up is just so satisfying to play.

 Jayden63 wrote:

 gr1m_dan wrote:


Is TL BS3 better then BS4?

Because now it costs 10 points cheaper for TL Plasma plus no TA.

Yes, because TL BS3 will hit 75% of the time. Straight up BS4 only hits 66% of the time.

Which is why I think they more or less removed the traditional target lock. Now that you can get TL weapon + another weapon for about the same price as before (and still shoot both) it became a bit of a wash, but TL BS 4 would probably be a bit broken if taken in mass.

This actually makes me feel a little better about the lack of targetting arrays.

How much are the new markerdrones supposed to be now?

 Lysenis wrote:

Really? The book sucks guys, no one needs to buy it. Everyone knows this *rolls eyes* Come on now. You are telling me that they suck before the dex is even released offically. Are all of you naysayers forgetting that this is a game, on a table, with terrain, and you use dice, to you know, roll and stuff.

This is what I see. I see balanced point reductions, great improvements that were CRIED for with great gnashing of teeth in the last edition. I hear of GREAT fluff (which is usually so rare that I almost cried for joy). I see more options in an army that was loved for its great models and the amount of versatility that came with those models. I also see AMAZING Synergy.

As for your cry on the BS of the units. Boo Hoo! You have marker lights! You have access to a system that lets you BOOST your BS to amazing heights, or ignore cover COMPLETLY! 2 ML's and the Skimmer, or flyer no longer gets thier save. Seems big to me!

I don't know if you realized, but we had markerlights in the old book too. They're not some magical new toy. By all accounts they work more or less like they did in the old book, and are slightly cheaper. They are not a revolution.

So you see, in the past we could increase BS by buying suitable wargear, or using Markerlights. Now, it's just using Markerlight. Sorry, but there is no way you will convince me that's progress.

I don't CARE how powerful the army is. I always spoke against those who demanded Tau to have BS4 base, because that would have just dumbed down the army. That's what I care for - I want army which is fun to customize & play. It doesn't look like the new book offers as much interesting options as the old one. Basically it seems like they gave it the Tyranid treatment.

At least gun, marker and missile drones appear to be 12

 Materia_Master wrote:

mothman_451 wrote:
Pathfinders are 11p each, and have Scouts, 3 can switch pulse carbine for ion rifle (10) or rail rifle (15)

I have nothing to say other than: Oh my, this is fantastic! a price reduction!
(some are going to voice opinions that the -1 armor means they should have been reduced even less... I disagree.)


Edit for brief question:

Markerlights are still heavy 1, arn't they?
If they are, my idea of outflanking and markerlighting unsuspecting enemies enemies in the same turn is gone... oh well.

Dont marker drones count as relentless? you could still use that

Also, dont know if i missed this, are broadsides also relentless? because some basic mobility without taking a hardpoint would be something to consider