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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/16 22:05:11
Subject: Article on why women don't play 40k
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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I found it funny that he argued that "Women like being treated with respect; they like being treated as equals" after using the argument about fawning over a woman. Obviously women who liked being fawned over aren't women following that logic. Edit: I'll also butt into this with some First Hand Experience (tm). I live in shared housing, I've had maybe 6 females living with me at some point. Whenever I suggest they give it a go the excuse is "I don't have the patience" or "it looks difficult". Isn't that the point of a hobby? Gaining patience and trying something hard? Oh well, horses for courses and it takes all kinds to make a world, what?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/16 22:25:16
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/16 22:37:54
Subject: Article on why women don't play 40k
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Beast Lord
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So is this article also implying that wargamers are socially awkward nerds who don't normally talk with women?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/16 22:39:25
Subject: Article on why women don't play 40k
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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I find myself having to ask this after spending the last couple minutes facepalming over the posts in this thread-- what the hell leads many of you guys to think that you know a single thing about why women do or don't play 40k, to the point where you think you know enough with such extreme surety that you are willing to say that your assumptions apply to ALL women?
Hell, I don't do that in this kind of discussion despite having the advantage of BEING a woman.
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/16 22:53:28
Subject: Article on why women don't play 40k
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Aspirant Tech-Adept
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Well the logical way to find out why women do not play 40k would be to conduct a survey and just ask them.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/16 23:05:33
Subject: Article on why women don't play 40k
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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Melissia wrote:I find myself having to ask this after spending the last couple minutes facepalming over the posts in this thread-- what the hell leads many of you guys to think that you know a single thing about why women do or don't play 40k, to the point where you think you know enough with such extreme surety that you are willing to say that your assumptions apply to ALL women?
Hell, I don't do that in this kind of discussion despite having the advantage of BEING a woman.
Most of the posts seem to be either joking, banging on about fluff, regaling tales of "women are just like blacks and hispanics, I don't care" or being insulted by grouping ("YOU ARE THE PROBLEM" out right slaps them).
Which posts you were facepalming about?
Another "first hand experience ( tm) story". After Christmas there was a kiddies group going on at GW before the games. Half the children there were female. None of the children turn up for games after that though, maybe children don't play because we're all smelly and not nice.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/16 23:06:48
Subject: Article on why women don't play 40k
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Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
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Well in our defense here...
In our country 80% of women are more interested in keeping the traditions, listening to country music, party, drink, sing, talk the entire day, doing hair, doing nails, working and having fun xxx time. 19% that actually read a book in their life are more concerned with politics and talking entire day about how desperate situation is in our country. And that 1% that actually read something other than love or politic book ( read: fantasy and sci-fi ) or go as far as play some video game either never hear of 40k or is not interested in that.
In my 9 years of wargaming I only meet one female who like fantasy and 40k - and she was only painting miniatures ( even for money to add ).
I can say the same thing for every other country in our area - we do not play because in our traditions sci-fi does not exist and females are those who keep our traditions alive. So Easter Europe can be excused from that theory, same goes for Islamic countries.
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The universe has many horrors yet to throw at us. This is not the end of our struggle. This is just the beginning of our crusade to save Humanity. Be faithful! Be strong! Be vigilant!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/16 23:33:19
Subject: Article on why women don't play 40k
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Douglas Bader
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Blaggard wrote:I found it funny that he argued that "Women like being treated with respect; they like being treated as equals" after using the argument about fawning over a woman. Obviously women who liked being fawned over aren't women following that logic.
There's a difference between expressing interest in someone and the kind of awkward obsession the article is talking about.
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/16 23:36:14
Subject: Article on why women don't play 40k
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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It may be that some people like the awkward obsession.
Some mothers do ave em, what?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/16 23:39:26
Subject: Article on why women don't play 40k
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Douglas Bader
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Blaggard wrote:It may be that some people like the awkward obsession.
Some mothers do ave em, what?
Yeah, I'm sure that the people who enjoy awkward obsession (especially when they're trying to play a game) are really more than a tiny minority...
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/16 23:48:52
Subject: Article on why women don't play 40k
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Hallowed Canoness
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I don't like having people fawning over me while I'm gaming. I'm trying to play a game, dammit.
>> Not that it ever really happens since everyone knows my girlfriend will run them over if they try anything, but...
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"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/16 23:50:03
Subject: Article on why women don't play 40k
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Terrifying Doombull
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Oh more of this! For the sake of the heavens above get over the fact that people have different tastes in hobbies.
I am less than surprised that the OP brings this up, and then by default mentions his Nazis in space. But then again this is Dakka
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/16 23:59:38
Subject: Re:Article on why women don't play 40k
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Fixture of Dakka
Kamloops, BC
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Not really a surprise to me, a lot of the gamers at my flgs don't look like the type of guys who know how to socialize well with women.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/17 00:01:35
Subject: Article on why women don't play 40k
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
Mesopotamia. The Kingdom Where we Secretly Reign.
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It's kind of a theme.
We had an interesting convergence here: the inevitable nazi reference from one poster, and the inevitable tantrum from another that occurs in any thread that discusses gender.
If someone would blame the victim we may have a trifecta.
On topic: people like different things. This can be generalized about along gender lines(along with many other other considerations) with the occasional exception. It's why we have marketing, for example.
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Drink deeply and lustily from the foamy draught of evil.
W: 1.756 Quadrillion L: 0 D: 2
Haters gon' hate. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/17 00:03:29
Subject: Article on why women don't play 40k
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Douglas Bader
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Trondheim wrote:Oh more of this! For the sake of the heavens above get over the fact that people have different tastes in hobbies.
The point is not that it's some kind of disaster that people have different tastes in hobbies, even different tastes that (on average) are divided along gender lines, it's that inappropriate behavior by certain elements of the community (unfortunately far too common elements) drives away people who otherwise would be interested in the hobby.
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/17 00:05:49
Subject: Article on why women don't play 40k
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Member of the Ethereal Council
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Monster Rain wrote:It's kind of a theme.
We had an interesting convergence here: the inevitable nazi reference from one poster, and the inevitable tantrum from another that occurs in any thread that discusses gender.
If someone would blame the victim we may have a trifecta.
On topic: people like different things. This can be generalized about along gender lines(along with many other other considerations) with the occasional exception. It's why we have marketing, for example.
Well if the women were not so sexy they wouldnt be getting harrassed.
End sarcasm.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/17 00:07:01
Subject: Article on why women don't play 40k
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Terrifying Doombull
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Peregrine wrote: Trondheim wrote:Oh more of this! For the sake of the heavens above get over the fact that people have different tastes in hobbies.
The point is not that it's some kind of disaster that people have different tastes in hobbies, even different tastes that (on average) are divided along gender lines, it's that inappropriate behavior by certain elements of the community (unfortunately far too common elements) drives away people who otherwise would be interested in the hobby.
I know but still, Sometimes I wish more gamers and male players in particular would take the time to learn social skills. Or spend time out of the hobby room, but one can dream eh?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/17 00:11:26
Subject: Article on why women don't play 40k
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
Mesopotamia. The Kingdom Where we Secretly Reign.
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hotsauceman1 wrote: Monster Rain wrote:It's kind of a theme.
We had an interesting convergence here: the inevitable nazi reference from one poster, and the inevitable tantrum from another that occurs in any thread that discusses gender.
If someone would blame the victim we may have a trifecta.
On topic: people like different things. This can be generalized about along gender lines(along with many other other considerations) with the occasional exception. It's why we have marketing, for example.
Well if the women were not so sexy they wouldnt be getting harrassed.
End sarcasm.
You have to mean it for it to count.
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Drink deeply and lustily from the foamy draught of evil.
W: 1.756 Quadrillion L: 0 D: 2
Haters gon' hate. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/17 00:41:01
Subject: Article on why women don't play 40k
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Aspirant Tech-Adept
Aschknas, Sturmkrieg Sektor
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JWhex wrote:Well the logical way to find out why women do not play 40k would be to conduct a survey and just ask them.
Yes, that would be a good idea. But who do you ask?
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As a discussion grows in length, the probability of a comparison to Matt Ward or Gray Knights approaches one.
Search engine for Warhammer 40,000 websites
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/17 01:08:00
Subject: Re:Article on why women don't play 40k
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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Meh, I find a lot of what the article said as wrong.
My wife does not play 40k because of the men. If it was the guys at the FLGS that grossed her out, I would make her armies so we could play at home.
She does not like the game for the same reason she does not like chess. Strategy games don't do it for her.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/17 01:08:02
Subject: Article on why women don't play 40k
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Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun
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personally i think women dont play 40k for the sheer fact theres always way less women in the nerdy scene than men. Its evening out these days, but in general gaming/computers are a guy's thing because its nerdy. 40k is something that if you arent into gaming/computers you'll probably never hear of it.
The one girl i know that even knows wtf 40k is plays necrons. Shes been a nerdy gamer about as long as me (20years, started playing the Atari when i was 4 lol yea we had that for eons before we got a NES or SNES) and found out about 40k because some of the people she plays online with mentioned it.
I dont know a single person that got into 40k or any other miniatures that isnt also into some form of video game. and thb, female gamers are still rare (i dont mean the cutsie-cute ones that go 'haha yea btw im a girl i play COD' and are more annoying than 5yearolds on xbox live)
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An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/17 01:12:34
Subject: Article on why women don't play 40k
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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I'd like to see actual evidence of this.
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/17 01:17:11
Subject: Article on why women don't play 40k
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Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun
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Evidence? Go play some online game and just keep track how many girls you come across. Goto a LAN party and see how many girls there are. Probably the only one you would find a fair amount of girls on average is a board-game group ( 40k technically is a boardgame i guess but its kind of an oddball) Dont need to study it to realize theres easily 10men for every 1 woman (probably worse than that) in the gaming scene. Thats why guys gawk over a girl gamer especially if shes attractive, theyre so damn rare to find unless theyre a gamer because of their husband lol. Even then theyre kinda rare. Gaming and being nerdy go hand in hand. When you think nerd you think the skinny dweeby boy with BCGs and a pocket protector, not a girl. Like i said its been evening out lately but its still mainly a guy's thing. Im not trying to denounce girl gamers either, just saying its usually men playing. I wish more girls DID play so it wasnt so damn hard to find one that had the same interests i do lol.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/17 01:18:25
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/17 01:27:42
Subject: Article on why women don't play 40k
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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So all you have is anecdotal evidence, right. Video game industry research states that women in their twenties are more likely to buy and play games than men in their teens. As for the rest-- I was in a clan in TF2 that was about half female players. Most players didn't speak at all, so making an assumption on their gender would have been ignorant (I don't speak much in games myself), but of those that did speak, I honestly didn't notice the huge discrepancy that you mentioned. Does that count as evidence in your book?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/17 01:29:40
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/17 01:30:34
Subject: Article on why women don't play 40k
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Douglas Bader
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Vineheart01 wrote:Evidence? Go play some online game and just keep track how many girls you come across.
That doesn't mean it's inherently a "guy thing", especially since this discussion is happening in a thread about how inappropriate behavior drives away women who would otherwise be interested. If every time you play a game online you get the horrible combination of abuse and awkward obsession you're pretty quickly going to either stop playing the game or pretend to be a man.
Dont need to study it to realize theres easily 10men for every 1 woman (probably worse than that) in the gaming scene.
Depends on the game. For example, rpgs are much more evenly balanced.
Thats why guys gawk over a girl gamer especially if shes attractive, theyre so damn rare to find unless theyre a gamer because of their husband lol.
No, they gawk because they don't understand (or don't care about) boundaries. We're not talking about thinking to yourself "hey, she's cute" and getting back to your game, we're talking about the kind of creepy obsession and/or desperation that makes people uncomfortable.
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/17 01:31:44
Subject: Article on why women don't play 40k
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Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel
Norway (Oslo)
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@Vineheart the majority are males but that doesnt mean females can't or shouldnt. know some female wargamers myself tough they are more into the painting part.
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Waagh like a bawz
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Kaptin Goldteef's waagh! 16250 points 45/18/3 (W/L/D) 7th Ed
6250 points 9/3/1 (W/L/D) sixth-ed
Dark elves: 2350points 3/0/0 (W/L/D)
3400 points 19/6/0 (W/L/D) 8' armybook
Wood Elves 2600 points, 6/4/0 (W/L/D)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/17 01:34:56
Subject: Article on why women don't play 40k
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Hallowed Canoness
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Vineheart01 wrote:
Evidence? Go play some online game and just keep track how many girls you come across. Goto a LAN party and see how many girls there are. Probably the only one you would find a fair amount of girls on average is a board-game group ( 40k technically is a boardgame i guess but its kind of an oddball)
Dont need to study it to realize theres easily 10men for every 1 woman (probably worse than that) in the gaming scene. Thats why guys gawk over a girl gamer especially if shes attractive, theyre so damn rare to find unless theyre a gamer because of their husband lol. Even then theyre kinda rare.
Gaming and being nerdy go hand in hand. When you think nerd you think the skinny dweeby boy with BCGs and a pocket protector, not a girl. Like i said its been evening out lately but its still mainly a guy's thing. Im not trying to denounce girl gamers either, just saying its usually men playing. I wish more girls DID play so it wasnt so damn hard to find one that had the same interests i do lol.
You're wrong on pretty much every level here. While it's true that when I go to my main gaming club, there are usually only three girls in the 40k rooms including me, that's because most of the female members of the club are in the RPG, Board Game or TCG rooms.
When I went to the other club, it was pretty much a 50/50 split. As for video gaming, since guys often refuse to believe a girl is a girl or make fun of them if they do reveal themselves as such, it's generally easier to pretend to be a guy. I did it for years.
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"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/17 01:35:26
Subject: Article on why women don't play 40k
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The manager of my local GW is a woman, just thought I'd put that out there.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/17 01:40:18
Subject: Re:Article on why women don't play 40k
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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The vocal and obnoxious players in MMORPGs tend to be male, but the players I know who play the most on WoW are actually women. Women make up at least 40% of gamers. They just don't go around proclaiming it because of the backlash.
However, I don't see wargames of any variety particularly appealing to women even the ones that are gamers. Women are more detail oriented, men tend to look at the big picture. The grandiose aspect of 40k and WHFB appeals to the male desire to command armies or witness battles unfold. Women will be more attracted to the hobby aspect of it or tabletop RPGs. There are plenty of disgusting males into tabletop RPGs, cosplay, MtG and other card games, video gaming, LARPing, etc and you find lots of women in all of those...
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Read my story at:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/515293.page#5420356
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/17 01:49:10
Subject: Article on why women don't play 40k
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Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun
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Yea im one of those guys that never believed someone was a chick on WoW till i heard their voice on TS/Vent or something because of people like my brother that actually posed as a chick for years for whatever reason, even had a few guys gawking over "her"
It is probably just my experience that says there arent many girls, but i still stand saying theyre rare.
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An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/17 01:57:22
Subject: Re:Article on why women don't play 40k
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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It's my opinion that a lot of "nerdy" culture is perceived as pretty male dominated and off-putting to women (even if the figures don't bear that out, I'd say that society as whole perceives it as such) and I find that unfortunate, and you may ask why I care. Well, from a purely self-centred point of view getting stuff like wargaming introduced to more people is something I like the idea of just because I think it's a cool hobby, not that I ever think it'll really make steps into the "mainstream" the way video games have done a bit in recent years (but at least you'd find it easier to get a game  ). For an example of how nerdy stuff can be off-putting for women, just look at things like online writers fulminating over "fake geek girls" - what woman would want to get into a hobby where she's having to prove herself according to some unwritten set of arbitrary credentials? It's not GI Jane with Land Raiders.
Note: I'm not saying the above is or is not representative of 40K players as a whole. I was simply using it as a hypothetical example of how a female who was interested in joining a particular group of like-minded people might be turned away by certain attitudes within the group. For "being called a fake geek girl" you could substitute "being fawned over by creepy guys," "having people automatically assume she isn't competitive and is only in it for the painting," etc.
Overall I think women will only be able to participate truly equally in the hobby when people stop regarding female wargamers as a mysterious separate species and instead, when seeing someone at the other side of the gaming table, whether they're man, woman or squig, simply sees another person with the same hobby. It sounds like there might be a few places where that's the case, and I reckon that one way to get a male group to accept more women is for some to get their foot in the door. But I also think that kind of thing can really only be done among gaming groups on a group-by-group basis and a lot of it is dependent on the women being accepted. Considering the time and effort that takes, it's no surprise some women don't even bother.
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Driven away from WH40K by rules bloat and the expense of keeping up, now interested in smaller model count games and anything with nifty mechanics. |
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