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 Melissia wrote:

 Amaya wrote:
Doesn't seem like this stopped you from doing video games, wargames, or RPGs...

I don't know if you noticed, but I'm not, personally, a very timid person online.

Understatement of the day here.

Jekyll and Hyde syndrome.

And...

My social experiment to prove how quickly the different subsets of nerds can turn on each other is a success.

No one bring up Goku vs Superman, though. I'll lose my damn mind.

 Monster Rain wrote:
And...

My social experiment to prove how quickly the different subsets of nerds can turn on each other is a success.

No one bring up Goku vs Superman, though. I'll lose my damn mind.

I'm happy to oblige.

That depends on which goku we're talking about.

And which Superman. The Golden Age planet juggling Superman with his superpower of "shear outright awesomeness" would be a bit of a challenge to Goku.

The modern Superman, not so much.

 TheCaptain wrote:

 Amaya wrote:
You do know that using sales as a measuring stick of something's quality or lack thereof is illogical and meaningless right?

Actually, sales are a good indicator of quality when there lacks much substantial, quantitative means of assessing quality.

Put simply: sales are really the only way to tell if a movie is good.

...So, what are you implying about Serenity?


Also, it's pretty easy to love Firefly but hate its fans.

A few days ago I brought a couple of friends who were girls to my local shop, nobody hit on them. I actually saw a couple of women playing while there as well.

i know of at least 2 girls who play 40k

to be honest it should just be accepted, they are either interested or not, if they do play just accept them and give them a game like you would anyone else, it would be interesting for sure

secondly any gaming community can be intimidating to anyone new regardles of gender, with women its probably even worse. Though some women don't do themseleves any favours when they dress in certian ways that gets them noticed, i'm not really taken by this to be honest, but for some having clevage on display creates a distraction when they are playing a game etc. However I respect that people can dress any way they want, but they should realise what some male creatures are like, and at a gaming club it can verge on the disrespectful sometimes. I just cannot understand it sometimes, as personally if a woman wants to play 40k she should be respected for it, and treated equally not as something exotic

Well keep in mind, society has trained women to subconsciously take appearance extremely seriously-- appearance matters EVERYWHERE we go, especially when it shouldn't, and we're constantly judged by our appearance instead of by what we do.

So please, don't look down on a woman for dressing nicely, or dressing in a way that's obvious it's intended to attract men. If they act superior and snooty, yeah, that's probably a reason to ignore them, but that's more on an individual basis than on a group basis. And don't think that they're being snooty and superior because they dress attractively.

Same reason they don't really play video games or other "nerd" activities.

 Melissia wrote:
Well keep in mind, society has trained women to subconsciously take appearance extremely seriously.

Just women huh?

More than men.

 Melissia wrote:
More than men.

Closer to the truth. Unfortunately I don't care enough about the subject to bother reading about it. Sociology - the Dane Cook of sciences.

Harriticus wrote:Same reason they don't really play video games or other "nerd" activities.

Even those this is false as has been mentioned multiple times. Read the thread much?

Griddlelol wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
More than men.

Closer to the truth. Unfortunately I don't care enough about the subject to bother reading about it. Sociology - the Dane Cook of sciences.

I think the appearance bit with women is grossly exaggerated. I see tons of college girls walking around in oversized t-shirts, yoga pants, hair uncombed in a ponytail...you know generally unkempt. They always find time for some makeup though...

Amaya, that's because "thrown together at the last minute" is a fashion style. Rah rah rah.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Amaya, that's because "thrown together at the last minute" is a fashion style. Rah rah rah.

This.

The whole "trying to look like I'm not trying"-look is what is deemed "cute" these days.

Meh. I still think half the pressure of appearance on women is placed by themselves or other women. Its like guys obsessing over getting bigger muscles. Most women don't care or think something like 170 lbs is big. Meanwhile everbody is trying to be 200+ with 16" arms.

 Amaya wrote:
Meh. I still think half the pressure of appearance on women is placed by themselves or other women. Its like guys obsessing over getting bigger muscles. Most women don't care or think something like 170 lbs is big. Meanwhile everbody is trying to be 200+ with 16" arms.

Most guys these days prefer muscle definition. At least, I've noticed in the North East, mass-building isn't that popular.

And a lot of aesthetic pressures ARE placed by other women, but men aren't innocent in it. I know I, and many I know, prefer a well-dressed woman with a certain personal flair, and whom is in good fitness. Whereas it seems most girls just want guys to be clean, well groomed, and have good personalities.

I like how when women become involved everyone is suddenly talking about the "attractiveness" of 40k. I've never heard that brought up in any other discussion. I think women don't get involved as often because when they're children/teenagers they tend not to be into war, violence, and competition like boys/ male teens. Later in life women may be introduced to these things through people they date/marry. The only exception to this i've scene was a dad at my FLGS whose teenage daughter played 40k. This was of course an activity they had shared since childhood and in some ways goes along with my point that women get introduced to gaming by men in their lives.

Unless you're fairly short, you're going to struggle to look very defined at 170 lbs. You'll just come off as being skinny and weak.

 Amaya wrote:
Unless you're fairly short, you're going to struggle to look very defined at 170 lbs. You'll just come off as being skinny and weak.

Not quite true.

Best friend is a Track Runner. He is 6ft, with a Body Mass % I could count on 1 hand. Absolutely shredded, and only 165.

Definition is all about muscle-tone. It doesn't really much to do with size.

You just described Brad Pitt in Fight Club. He was small and had abs. /golfclap

You need mass for muscles to pop.



This is way off topic though. Haven't we settled on the reason women don't play 40k is primarily because they're not interested in wargames? For the 50th time, there are lots of women doing other "nerdy" activities. Wargaming appears to be the sole activity where their numbers are significantly smaller.

 Amaya wrote:
Haven't we settled on the reason women don't play 40k is primarily because they're not interested in wargames? For the 50th time, there are lots of women doing other "nerdy" activities. Wargaming appears to be the sole activity where their numbers are significantly smaller.

Do you actually believe there's going to be a consensus? I mean, I assumed this was about discussion not solution.

All the facts I see point to that.

No one has addressed them.

 Amaya wrote:
All the facts I see point to that.

No one has addressed them.

There's not many facts here, just a whole bunch of opinion and conjecture.

It's a fact that women participate at significant numbers in various other activities considered to be nerdy.

It's a fact there are some women participating in wargaming and working at FLGS, so the argument that various stores are boy's only clubs is only true for select stores.

The two biggest arguments have been that women don't participate because of the men in it (same type of men in said other activities) and/or because they feel like outsiders in all male stores.

Since both of those assumptions are false that leaves us looking for another explanation.

 Amaya wrote:

Since both of those assumptions are false that leaves us looking for another explanation.

The thing is you can't reach any meaningful conclusions without data. There are no data on the participation of females in the 40k hobby that I'm aware of.

Also classifying things as "nerdy" doesn't help. Many things you are putting under that are incredibly distinct. I'd be surprised for find wargaming as the only "nerdy" thing that has a significantly smaller subset of female to male.

Stating that those "assumptions" are false is a huge step in something that's entirely subjective. Just because someone on this forum says that they ignore those reasons not to participate doesn't mean that all girls do.

You're trying to deal in absolutes, which in my (limited) experience in sociology is rarely an answer.

Video gaming, cosplay, LARPing, and tabletop RPGs are not considered nerdy by nearly everyone?

 Amaya wrote:
Video gaming, cosplay, LARPing, and tabletop RPGs are not considered nerdy by nearly everyone?

Well again you've lumped things into huge piles without considering the implications of that.

My ex loved JRPGs. However, she wouldn't touch the Survival Horror or Stealth genres.
Cosplay is in my experience female dominated. Although that's mainly due to males in most anime being rather generic in appearance unless you're fit and muscular.
LARPing - no idea.
Table top RPGs come in all shapes an sizes. From Dungeons and Dragons to Star Wars. Since the main reason to play is the role play itself, these differences are huge.

I'm just trying to point out that it's not as cut-and-dry as it seems. I don't claim to know why, but I think you should slow down with your assumptions and approach it with a little rationality.

Are you seriously trying to argue that some cosplay, larping, or tabletop RPGs are not nerdy?

edit: You're accusing me of lumping things and you just lumped all of cosplay into anime.

lmao