Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Is there any reason to keep the 3 resources now? The majority of the units only upgrade from one of either gold or wood.

Exemplars, Siege Weapons, Fortifications, and Campaign options.

If an exemplar costs 35 or 35 or 35, can you buy it for 0/25/10 for example? I guess no, but the book does not mentions this.

 WhiteRoo wrote:
If an exemplar costs 35 or 35 or 35, can you buy it for 0/25/10 for example? I guess no, but the book does not mentions this.

No, you pay the cost listed.

Standard Bearer again.

What happens when you select the "Flag of Conquered Lands"? (Enemy Models within 10” have -3 HM) Looks like... nothing.

I think it would be better if the effects would be listed on the Standard Bearer's profile anyway, since the banner bonuses are worded as area effects and the Standard Bearer converts them into squad bonuses. It can be confusing.

Like with the Flag of Conquered Lands which actually does nothing when selected by the Standard Bearer. As far as I understand anyway.

Putting the effects directly on the card counteracts future-proofing. If we add additional banners in other books, the Standard Bearer wont be able to use them, as the banners he can use are listed right on the card.

You are correct in thinking that the 'offensive' banners do nothing when selected for the SB. It can only provide bonuses to the squad it is in.

How about the Flag of the Holy Rodentian Empire? It's a banner. Can you choose that?

 WhiteRoo wrote:
How about the Flag of the Holy Rodentian Empire? It's a banner. Can you choose that?

No, only the ones from the Banner section of the generic armory.

If the Hedge Knight gains the Flag of the Holy Rodentian Empire, can he still purchase a banner? It looks like, he can't.

 WhiteRoo wrote:
If the Hedge Knight gains the Flag of the Holy Rodentian Empire, can he still purchase a banner? It looks like, he can't.

How many flags can a hero or exemplar hold? That should answer your question.

The ones in the banner section are the only real banners. The faction specific flags are just a flavorful description for an expanded Influence Range.

Then notation is needed! *flies away*

Just a wild idea...

Whit a little thinkering it could be possible to rearrange the unit costs in a way that Gold is only reserved for upgrades while Lumber is for siege weapons, assault terrain and siege-type units. (units with mortars, flamethrowers, dinamites or general artillery stuff)

Units would cost Food as now do, basically upgrade from gold and cost gold if they are the better troops(as now, but many Lumber cost would become Gold cost). Only units that have template attacks or weapon upgrades that give the units template attacks would cost Lumber.

Then the requiment of Food Lumber and Gold have to be equal could be lifted. What this would do is the game to be able to scale the battles on number of basic units, amount of upgrades and amount of siege warfare.

If the game is set to Food only, then the players could only use non-upgraded basic units.
If it's gold only, then only exemplars, mercnaries and heroes can be enlisted.
If it's lots of Lumber and some Food, then it's siege all the way!
If it's small amount of Food and a lot of Gold, then it's small fully upgraded armies and mercenaries.
And so on...

Maybe there should be a unit introduced that can only be used to operate siege weapons but costs only Lumber, so there can be Lumber only siege games. (Battleship!)

Food would scale the size of the army, while gold the amount of mercenaries and upgrades. Lumber would scale the size of the siege aspect.

The only big difference would be that the equal Food-Lumber-Gold starting amount would be just one of the possible starting amounts. Maybe it would be possible to the players to make armies on equal total resources but on different distributions.

This also would help to clear out what one can do with it's resources. If you have some wood, you can buy units with template attack. If you have gold, you can buy better armor and weapons, or units with better equipment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On page 31, the Satchel Charge's text says 5" Template, I believe it should say Large Template.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Luca da Vacanti

Luca da Vacanti can be enlisted to the Vandalands Army if Gotz von Federwerk is enlisted.

I believe Gotz's page should also mention this.

I'm trying to read trough every unit description and I'll try to give feedback from it. I'll see how far I get.

These feedbacks only reflect my understanding of the game.

Aquitar - Tactician General - Sinkhole(Rank 1 and 2): Squads do not have next activations. Models in the squad have. I believe it should says "models in target squad..."
-Entrenched(Rank 1): I think under 50 resource limit you simply cannot have 10 model squads. This ability is quite useless on rank 1.
-Rapid Deployment(Rank 2): Models have full activations in the turn they ambush, no? Then what does this do? An additional full activation?
-Inspiring Presence: I believe it should be a ":" after "Heroic action" and not a ",".

-The Badger in the Iron Claws - Broken Chains: It is unclear if the rush-charge is followed up by a melee phase. It's also not clear if an attached grenadier or other ranged unit may make a ranged phase before the charge.

-Nicolas Songis des Hedge - Flying Cannon - Do you need a working deployed cannon to use this ability or Nicolas is simply equipped with one? Do you choose a cannon and shoot it as his ranged phase? Do you have to account that cannon's range? Somehow I don't think Nicolas has a pocket-cannon.

-Badger Grenadier - Well Supplied - I believe it would be more clear if the text would say "all models in the squad", instead of just "squad".

I'll see about getting the changes to Satchel Charge and Luca/Gotz in the book.

Sinkhole/Badger Grenadier: Whenever we refer to a squad, we're referring to 'all the models in a squad'.

Entrenched: You could still take this talent as just a single rank while taking higher ranks of other talents. Taking a second rank of it makes it viable in smaller games.

Rapid Deployment: Ambushing allows a single ranged phase or a single melee phase. Flanking allows a full activation.

Inspiring Presence: I think most of the Boons that were tactical/heroics had commas, but I'll go through and standardize it like Talents using colons.

Broken Chains: charging is now part of the melee phase, but I'll see about rephrasing it to indicate that you can make a Melee Phase. The Free Activation allows a Move Phase and a Melee Phase, the squad may not take a Ranged Phase.

Nicolas Songis: He works just like the Siege Tortoise, as his ranged phase, he can make a Cannon attack as if he was a fully operated cannon. He does indeed have a 'pocket-cannon' or rather, he is riding a kiwi pulling a flying cannon.

Historically, flying cannons were light cannons pulled by a single horse and setup quickly. In Brushfire its a more cartoonish cannon Songis can fire while moving.

Axony- Heavy Brigardier - Feline rage(rank 3-4): I believe those two +3 AR are stacking, but it's just looks like a wording error like this. I think on rank 4 it should say "additional" at least.
-Lead The Charge: I believe it would be more clear as "... The Devon Brigardiers have Reach while they are in the Heavy Brigardier's squad."

Thomas Brude - It is not clear if Thomas Brude do or do not has a pistol otherwise.

Imperial Duke - Exploit Weakness(Rank 1) - I believe it should be "models on the target squad"
-Just as Planned: I think it would be more clear with "...instead of 1D10" added.

The Experts - For me, the italic text on the top of the page looks like flavor text instead of the rule these units follow.

Doyle - Bartitsu Master - Is there any reason why the +2 MS is not part of his base stats? There is no test for MS or use of it outside melee phase, so this is mostly just a weird extra rule. In case some effect reduces it's MS, it could be "Doyle's MS cannot be lower than 2" and have 3 MS instead of 1.

Fiedler - Unsuspected - Since you can individually target all attacks in an attack set and as far as I know a model is not forced to use up all of it's attacks, Fielder can keep this ability up all match. He just have to stop before he kills a model(but burned all it's armor), then re-target and let an other expert to finish the kill every time. (like the Agent, who ignores all armor)

Sean - 87th Rifles - it is not clear that units have or not have rifles otherwise while Sean is in a squad with them. Also it would be more clear if it would say "all models considered to have rifles for this free attack" because a unit may have other ranged weapons and it is not clear if it gains a rifle if it has a crossbow already for example,

WATCHDOG - Orwellian Security - I believe this should be in two ability. One for the re-roll and one for the activation rule. Also while Sean has the rule that he can't activate with the experts and with a different squad, this is not clear with the Agent and the WATCHDOGs. it sounds like when the Agent activates with the Experts the WATCHDOGs may activate with him. Also being a non-unique exemplar and the experts do not have to keep cohesion, it might worth to mention if WATCHDOGs have to keep cohesion(or be close to it) to activate with the Agent or other WATCHDOGs.

Bearded Highlander - Rage - It might worth to mention he may only reroll missies once. It's just one word. Also, it's the melee phase after the charge, no? As the charge is just the part when the models move close.

Gallowglass - What Is Your Quest?: Do the number of the Gallowglasses and Knights have to be equal? Can I activate more Gallowglass than knight or more knight than gallowglass?

Milnean Knight - Questing Knight: I believe that sentence has a typo or two.

Axon Howitzer - Axon Cannons repeat step 1 instead of step 2 then? It's a little confusing. How many times they repeat step 1?


Mercenaries: I've just realized, there is nothing to stop me from hiring my own fraction's basic troops as mercs to round out my armies. If I enlist Kernish Terriers to my Axony Army then hire some more as mercs, there is no difference between them. One costs one more gold than the other costs food. But these Terriers can activate in one squad if they have the same equipment, no?





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 miskatonicalum wrote:

Nicolas Songis: He works just like the Siege Tortoise, as his ranged phase, he can make a Cannon attack as if he was a fully operated cannon. He does indeed have a 'pocket-cannon' or rather, he is riding a kiwi pulling a flying cannon.

Then I think it should be worth mentioning that he really do have a cannon. Maybe on it's equipment list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 miskatonicalum wrote:


Sinkhole/Badger Grenadier: Whenever we refer to a squad, we're referring to 'all the models in a squad'.

I don't find this anywhere in the book.

I'll let misk answer the rest of the questions, but in regards to the highlanders and their rage rerolls, reroll is a common wording we have already defined in the book.

Reroll (page 7): Reroll - Roll a die again under circumstances indictated in the special rule that contains the phrase ‘reroll’. Rerolls can never occur more than once per die. Regardless of the second result, the player must accept the reroll result.

So we already have that a reroll may only be done once, I do realize it's only one word, but adding it is making it redundant. And you technically would have to write it, "Rage - During a Charge, a Bearded Highlander may reroll misses. Rerolls are only on the first attack set roll" If we wrote it, "Rage - During a Charge, a Bearded Highlander may reroll misses once" does this mean that I can only reroll it once per turn? per activation? per game? So we've already added it in there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 WhiteRoo wrote:

 miskatonicalum wrote:


Sinkhole/Badger Grenadier: Whenever we refer to a squad, we're referring to 'all the models in a squad'.

I don't find this anywhere in the book.

Page 7 wrote:Squad - A group of Models that activated at the same time.

And since you have to deploy as a squad, you do have squads from the beginning of the game.

 WhiteRoo wrote:
Axony- Heavy Brigardier - Feline rage(rank 3-4): I believe those two +3 AR are stacking, but it's just looks like a wording error like this. I think on rank 4 it should say "additional" at least.

This was a typo, its been fixed.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

-Lead The Charge: I believe it would be more clear as "... The Devon Brigardiers have Reach while they are in the Heavy Brigardier's squad."

this will be clarified.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Thomas Brude - It is not clear if Thomas Brude do or do not has a pistol otherwise.

This will be reworded.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Doyle - Bartitsu Master - Is there any reason why the +2 MS is not part of his base stats? There is no test for MS or use of it outside melee phase, so this is mostly just a weird extra rule. In case some effect reduces it's MS, it could be "Doyle's MS cannot be lower than 2" and have 3 MS instead of 1.

If your Rats Charge Doyle, his charge reaction is part of your melee phase.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Fiedler - Unsuspected - Since you can individually target all attacks in an attack set and as far as I know a model is not forced to use up all of it's attacks, Fielder can keep this ability up all match. He just have to stop before he kills a model(but burned all it's armor), then re-target and let an other expert to finish the kill every time. (like the Agent, who ignores all armor)

Strategy.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Sean - 87th Rifles - it is not clear that units have or not have rifles otherwise while Sean is in a squad with them. Also it would be more clear if it would say "all models considered to have rifles for this free attack" because a unit may have other ranged weapons and it is not clear if it gains a rifle if it has a crossbow already for example,

We'll clarify this.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

WATCHDOG - Orwellian Security - I believe this should be in two ability. One for the re-roll and one for the activation rule. Also while Sean has the rule that he can't activate with the experts and with a different squad, this is not clear with the Agent and the WATCHDOGs. it sounds like when the Agent activates with the Experts the WATCHDOGs may activate with him. Also being a non-unique exemplar and the experts do not have to keep cohesion, it might worth to mention if WATCHDOGs have to keep cohesion(or be close to it) to activate with the Agent or other WATCHDOGs.

We'll clarify this.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Bearded Highlander - Rage - It might worth to mention he may only reroll missies once. It's just one word. Also, it's the melee phase after the charge, no? As the charge is just the part when the models move close.

Reworded:

Rage - During a Melee Phase that includes a Charge, a Bearded Highlander may reroll misses.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Gallowglass - What Is Your Quest?: Do the number of the Gallowglasses and Knights have to be equal? Can I activate more Gallowglass than knight or more knight than gallowglass?

They do not have to be equal, just 5 of each max in a single mixed squad.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Milnean Knight - Questing Knight: I believe that sentence has a typo or two.

Fixed

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Axon Howitzer - Axon Cannons repeat step 1 instead of step 2 then? It's a little confusing. How many times they repeat step 1?

Obviously you hammer your opponent into the ground with a single never ending cannon.

It'll be a repeat once thing.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Mercenaries: I've just realized, there is nothing to stop me from hiring my own fraction's basic troops as mercs to round out my armies. If I enlist Kernish Terriers to my Axony Army then hire some more as mercs, there is no difference between them. One costs one more gold than the other costs food. But these Terriers can activate in one squad if they have the same equipment, no?

Fill them resources.

Wait, the charge reaction is an "activate immediately", which means if Doyle counterattacks, it's the axony player's melee phase and Doyle's melee phase.

No?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the book should mention this "you can hire your own troops as mercs" thing. Normally why would you do that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Do you have to shoot at the same squad that you are going to charge?(I was starting with Chugoku and ran into this while reading the Dynastic King)

Yes, Doyle Counterattacks during 'his' melee phase.

The actual reason for that ability is because of how we design and stat up models in Brushfire. The FD cost of a model is directly related to the total amount of stat points put into its statline.

The +2 MS works in two ways, it makes his base MS 3, and when he rushes, he retains a MS of 2.



Mercs:
No where is it stated that you cannot hire mercs of your own faction. Why would you assume that you cannot? The Civitan Trade Alliance's fluff is completely based around the concept that they are a bunch of mercenary armies. Their army special rule is also based around that concept.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Do you have to shoot at the same squad that you are going to charge?(I was starting with Chugoku and ran into this while reading the Dynastic King)

Yes.

 Cyporiean wrote:

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Do you have to shoot at the same squad that you are going to charge?(I was starting with Chugoku and ran into this while reading the Dynastic King)

Yes.

Somehow I don't remember reading that. Where does it says that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But regardless of the stats and food costs, Doyle effectively has that bonus MS most of the time. Even if just for the rush, it is not the way the book handles these things with other units. It usually says a model retains some amount of MS/RS/ES instead like this.

I still believe it would be more clear if it would be on it's stat line, or at least that ability should have it's own name and line to stand out more. Maybe even that being it's first ability.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alfndrate wrote:

Page 7 wrote:Squad - A group of Models that activated at the same time.

And since you have to deploy as a squad, you do have squads from the beginning of the game.

It do not say that a squad is a group of models that will activate in a same time, or always activate in the same time.

These entries especially stat that a squad may only exist UNTIL the model's next activation and if two models activate twice in one squad that is a mere coincidence and you are not forced to do so.

Therefore wording an ability to trigger on a squad's next activation is confusing because logically a squad never has a next activation. A new squad is formed in the Squad Phase and even if it contains exactly the same models, it is a different squad.

am I wrong?

I'll see about shifting the special rule up so the +2 MS is up near the top of the model's card/profile.


Whenever we are referring to a 'target squad' it is always read as the 'models within the squad'. If you only activate some models of the squad, or activate them in a squad with other models, they still suffer from whatever the status effect is.

In this case we were discussing Sinkhole, the models of the squad cannot charge the next time they activate.

5 models are in a squad that gets hit with sinkhole. After being hit with the effect, 2 of them activate with another group of models, that squad cannot charge during that activation. The last 3 models activate together, they cannot charge either.

"target squad" is always referring to the models that make up the squad.

I think there should be a few lines in the book that describes how you exactly deal with the "target squad's next activation" effects. I get it, it's just has a logical hiccup as it is now.

For example...

As a math based point of view...

Let's say you have a squad of 10 models that are activated together, they are now Squad A.

Next activation you take five models from squad A and you activate those as squad B.

Now you activate squad B and this activation is squad A's next activation even so Squad A and Squad B are far from being the same thing.

The remaining five rats must be Squad A and if anything targets this squad after B's activation, now only effects this five models, since Squad B now a different squad than A, even if the activation of Squad B was Squad A's next activation.

Furthermore if you activate the five remaining rats, you now have squad C and this activation is also the next activation of squad A, even so we had that before with squad B.

The thing is, calling them squads or saying thing like "the target squads next activation" is a little bit confusing.

You and I might get it, but I'm now reading this book a year now and asked a lot of questions here. This part is a little bit dodgy at best.

Don't look at it as Squad A vs Squad B, but that effects that 'target squad' instead of 'target model' are Area of Effect/multi-target effects.

The phrase 'target squad' is short and simple, we need concise phrasing. Feel free to read it as "All the models in target squad".

 miskatonicalum wrote:


5 models are in a squad that gets hit with sinkhole. After being hit with the effect, 2 of them activate with another group of models, that squad cannot charge during that activation. The last 3 models activate together, they cannot charge either.

"target squad" is always referring to the models that make up the squad.

Moving is based on the individual stats of the models so I think if some models cannot charge in the squad that is their problems, the rest can still do it. I don't remember reading that if any model cannot charge in the squad the rest also can't. The book states the opposite, as on page 12 - Mixed Stats in a Squad - it says models use their own stats and therefore it is reasonable to think that status effects do not spread like a virus in a squad. Fire doesn't either so why other effects would?

Yes, sorry I misspoke. The REST of the models activating with those 2 Sinkholed models may still charge, the other two would get left behind. (Leading to cohesion issues later on.)

btw Whiteroo, just wanted to give a quick thanks for going through everything with a fine tooth comb.

 Cyporiean wrote:
btw Whiteroo, just wanted to give a quick thanks for going through everything with a fine tooth comb.

Agreed!

Thanks!

So I have bump into a wall a this point as the book really not says anything about translating the term "squad" to "models in the squad" and even if it is meant like that it changes the meaning of the term on usage.

Mostly a "squad" like "target squad" is "models that are deployed as a squad or models that are activated together last time they where activated" as this clearly means the group of the models.

While the "squad" in the "squad's next activation" refers to the models as individuals that are in the other kind of squad currently. And it means every single model's next activation separately in that other kind of squad.

It is supposed to refer to "models the in target squad", but you can't call this also "squad", you used that term already.

Again, I get it, it's just illogical. *insert stock image of Spock here*

Also, where the book says that if you shoot a squad at the ranged phase you can only charge that same squad after that? I can't find it.