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The same target every phase rule got lost somewhere, it's getting put in.

Something I kinda felt like pointing out. I love how the Cult of Exomorphism are all bugs, but their named after different mythical creatures and monsters of our world. Here was just two idea I felt like shareing. You might of already thought of them, but I wanted to share anyway. XD


The 1st is the most obvious to me. A giant mosquito Vampire, who drains animals dry of their blood. When I had to explain the cult during game demos to people who wanted to know all the factions, this was the example I used to show the monster/bug connection because some of the existing examples didn't show it clearly enough for some people.



Another Monster bug connection is Glyptapanteles and Zombies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyptapanteles

It's a species of wasp that puts it's larva inside a host, and the larva take over the host for their own needs. I could see alot of interesting ideas with that one.

We've got something similar to your second suggestion in plans currently..

A Mosquito could be interesting, hadn't thought of that previously...

 Cyporiean wrote:
We've got something similar to your second suggestion in plans currently..

A Mosquito could be interesting, hadn't thought of that previously...

I sort of have this image in my head of a giant misquito that can just pick up a rat raider in one hand, impaling the rat, then tossing aside a withered and bloodless corpse. Not to mention it would be able to fly to top it all off.

O___O

It would be like mansquito, except actually scary.

Two of the exemplars for the faction,who got a short story about them, are spoofs of Predator/Yautja and Alien/Xenomorph.

Additionally, the entire faction works like botflies, even though the actual species they are based on do not. (DO NOT look up botflies. Just accept that they work sort of like Xenomorphs or Glyptapanteles). Lends itself well to the Lovecraftian horror aspect.

I also like the idea of a "Vampyr" mosquito. Perhaps as an Adjutant, the Exomorph version of a 'medic'?

 miskatonicalum wrote:
(DO NOT look up botflies)

Too late...

Yeah, while the faction is 99% bugs.. its called 'The Cult of Exomorphism' for a reason.. those Cultists will want to 'gift' your troops with the seed of their gods.

 miskatonicalum wrote:
Two of the exemplars for the faction,who got a short story about them, are spoofs of Predator/Yautja and Alien/Xenomorph.

Additionally, the entire faction works like botflies, even though the actual species they are based on do not. (DO NOT look up botflies. Just accept that they work sort of like Xenomorphs or Glyptapanteles). Lends itself well to the Lovecraftian horror aspect.

I also like the idea of a "Vampyr" mosquito. Perhaps as an Adjutant, the Exomorph version of a 'medic'?

How would a Vampyr Mosquito heal people thow? I'm just not sure I follow.

I was thinking more like, having some sort of mechanic involving it draining enemy models dry of their blood.

Other factions have a "medic" as part of the support infantry (or w/e we're calling them). An adjuant is roughly an NCO, or someone that assists other higher ranking officers... Not sure if that's what misk is talking about. The Vampyr Mosquito would be support infantry, rather than like a medic that you might see (say in Aquitar)

I was thinking more that he just heals himself. Perhaps also infecting at the same time. Which i suppose makes him more like the Witch Doctors, or other 'magic' users.

He'll "Hold you in his arms and You can feel his disease"

 miskatonicalum wrote:
I was thinking more that he just heals himself. Perhaps also infecting at the same time. Which i suppose makes him more like the Witch Doctors, or other 'magic' users.

aaahhhhh! Now I follow. Alot of cool idea being brain stormed for this idea. XD

I think they definitely should be some type of Non-unique exemplar you can attach to other units.

 Cyporiean wrote:
He'll "Hold you in his arms and You can feel his disease"

In all honesty I just got a shiver reading that.
XD

Byakees and Mi-Goes we need Byakees and Mi-Goes.

One thing we're doing with the bugs is that they'll have several names in the fluff, but just one for the unit entry for simplicity.

So while Hamsters might know something as Trolls or Jotnar, the Ribens would call them Oni.

This should give you a good variety in army fluff to build things around your choice of mythos.


Also: Playtesting for CoE will begin in August most likely, we want to get the first 8 settled first.

 Cyporiean wrote:
One thing we're doing with the bugs is that they'll have several names in the fluff, but just one for the unit entry for simplicity.

So while Hamsters might know something as Trolls or Jotnar, the Ribens would call them Oni.

This should give you a good variety in army fluff to build things around your choice of mythos.


Also: Playtesting for CoE will begin in August most likely, we want to get the first 8 settled first.

So Vampyr, and Jiangshi would be the most ovioues choices of name. XD

Maby Penanggalan, one of my favorit verations of the vampire myth?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penanggalan

Sounds like a love bug that has lost its mate.

Let's continue then. I will call out "squad's next activation" effects just in case.

Chugoku

Dynastic King - Path of Emperors - (All ranks) - squads, models in squad confusion.
- The Jade Seal - This is also squad confusion, but worse. You obviously have to use it on a friendly squad before those models next activation. But then you can regroup those models even to one model per squad and all will cause shock with their charge/ranged attack. If you do it with rank 4 and ranged units you can paralyze the whole enemy army in every second turn.

Wu Xian of the Red Claw - It is painful to see such beautiful art crammed there like that. Also, if it has to be like this, at least move the picture's background under the text's level and a little left.

Celestial Tactician - Water Margin (Rank 1)- Squad confusion. It is not clear if "Heavy/Light Cavalry" looses their special rules or which part of those rules/bonuses, as Cavalry as it's own is rare, but I think there are a few models that are just Cavalry. And it's only grants increased charge range and retained ES. (Rank 2) - I Thought models can only flee when being charged anyway. I think I get it, but I guess a re-wording would make this more clear as "Target squad cannot make charge reaction except Flee."
-Lay of the Land(Rank 3) - When you can make that ambush? Ambush happens before your first activation in the turn, but even if you activate the Tactician first, that's too late to make an ambush as it was supposed to happen before any of your activation. So, some extra rules are missing here. Also, Can this cause any model to activate twice? Like you activate a squad then use Lay of the Land on them, ambush them again and make a melee/ranged phase. Also, squad confusion as this does not states if every model in the target squad has to ambush as a single squad or not. In theory you can remove the squad, regroup them to two or more squads and ambush them separately.
- Weapon Scrolls - I have no clue what this means. You take model upgrades in normal costs anyway. I guess it supposed to be "All models in the army may take one of their upgrade equipments free."
- Tactical Supervision - Then enemy models in this area can't be hit with lucky hits?

Kong Ming of the Green Eye - Song of my People - What happens if they fail this test?

Hua Poi Kay - Taijijian - Can she move into close combat to attack? Is that counts as a charge? Can she have a ranged phase in this free activation?

Lao Yi - Loyal Friend - I think this should be two ability. One for the no attack part the other for the free counterattack and extra attacks during that counterattack.

Pan Yu - What does this model do with it's influence range? Only heroes TS/HM can be used instead of the unit's own.

Chugokuan Color Guard - Tengpai - What kind of Hero? Is this limited to Chugoku heroes only or mercenary heroes also count?

Flying Boxer - Fighters of Heaven - Tactical actions target squads. This ability only targets single models then? Even if the target model is activated with a squad? Do the model that uses the Tactical actions get auto-hit by it or is it allowed to have a TS roll? this TS roll uses the original TS roll of the user or the Flying Boxer's TS?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lem Han - Steeds of Wuhuan - Anti-Charge is a weapon property, no? Isn't it should be "Lem Han has anti-charge on it's melee weapons."




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Civitan

Captain - Broadside(All ranks) - Template attacks do not target squads. Even a small template can be placed to hit two models that are in different squads.

Conquistador - Glory - squad confusion
-God(Rank 4)- it is not clear if they have to move immediately, or they gain this free activation and use it anytime, even carrying it over to the next turn.
-First Mate - What can this unit do with Influence range?
-Cannoneer - Is that supposed to be 2 additional attack sets?

Ral da Diabolito - Overrun(Also, M.A.V. - Overrun) - It is not clear if this 2 DE is an auto-hit, or a weapon hit. Maybe it should be "As it would attack with a sword" or "As it would attack a 2 DE weapon"

Luca da Vacanti - Read Your Contract - This is really Gotz von Federwerk's ability.
- Lucky Star - is he should be considered slain when he looses his Valkyr or if he looses it's Valkyr and not attack afterwards? This does not really do much since pilots have no resource value so when the Valkyr falls, it's goes to the lost resources heap and the pilot is worth nothing.

Maybe this should be changed as in a campaign it would be add some extra fluff if you could repair your mechs and siege stuff, so if you can save your pilots you get rewarded. In normal games the Pilots should have the food cost of the Valkyr units, so after the mechs get destroyed, the pilots would not be just meat-shields. Maybe you could save MK2 Valkyr pilots for extra points or something. Or you could capture them!

Civitan Marine - Partizan - The Civitan marine has no Squad description so it is hard to tell if they can be in a squad with Conscripts.
-Pistolero - It's 3 attacks per Pistol, or +1 attack to it's ranged attack set?

Mouse Lancer - Striking Leap - Can the Lancer move before it executes Striking leap? If so, maybe a rewording to something like "Lancers have 25" charge range for this special charge" or "A Lancer may use this ability to increase it's charge range to 25" but uses RS instead of MS on the following melee phase" as this is an activation ability and not a passive one.

Armory:
Iron Skin - 4 AR Shield, Shield - ???

Light Panzardi-guns - so if the enemy squad has 5 members, this thing fires 10 times? This description is a little bit head scratching because it doesn't follows the terminology of the book. I'd suggest to reword it as "2 attacks after every model in the target squad" as "X attacks" is used if a weapon has multiple attacks even if the weapon is ranged, so using "fires" can be confusing. Also, it should be worded in the same way as the Panzardi Speciale is, as these two are very similar.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

-Lay of the Land(Rank 3) - When you can make that ambush?

We'll clarify this, you do it at some point during your turn at your choice.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Also, Can this cause any model to activate twice?

Yes.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Also, squad confusion as this does not states if every model in the target squad has to ambush as a single squad or not. In theory you can remove the squad, regroup them to two or more squads and ambush them separately.

Ambushing models cannot 'regroup', Lay of the Land squads work the same way normal Ambushing Squads work.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

- Weapon Scrolls - I have no clue what this means. You take model upgrades in normal costs anyway. I guess it supposed to be "All models in the army may take one of their upgrade equipments free."

'Items' are a thing. Satchel Charges, Climbing Claws, Jars of Hyperian Fire, etc.

 WhiteRoo wrote:
Tactical Supervision - Then enemy models in this area can't be hit with lucky hits?

Right, if you roll a 9+ you get a Critical Hit instead.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Kong Ming of the Green Eye - Song of my People - What happens if they fail this test?

Then they can't do what it says.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Hua Poi Kay - Taijijian - Can she move into close combat to attack? Is that counts as a charge? Can she have a ranged phase in this free activation?

That should be 'Take a Melee Phase'.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Pan Yu - What does this model do with it's influence range? Only heroes TS/HM can be used instead of the unit's own.

Models with an Influence Range give out their TS/HM to friendly models, generally this is only Heroes.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Chugokuan Color Guard - Tengpai - What kind of Hero? Is this limited to Chugoku heroes only or mercenary heroes also count?

Any Friendly Hero.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Flying Boxer - Fighters of Heaven - Tactical actions target squads. This ability only targets single models then? Even if the target model is activated with a squad? Do the model that uses the Tactical actions get auto-hit by it or is it allowed to have a TS roll? this TS roll uses the original TS roll of the user or the Flying Boxer's TS?

Yes, it only goes against the model that caused the Tactical Action. Its automatic if the Flying Boxer is affected by a Tactical Action.

Ex. A Warlord uses Sabotage on a Flying Boxer, the Flying Boxer fails the TS Test and is hit by the Tactical Action. Because the Flying Boxer is affected by the TA, the Warlord is now also on fire.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Lem Han - Steeds of Wuhuan - Anti-Charge is a weapon property, no? Isn't it should be "Lem Han has anti-charge on it's melee weapons."

With the 2.0 Changes this ability should probably become something else.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Captain - Broadside(All ranks) - Template attacks do not target squads. Even a small template can be placed to hit two models that are in different squads.

We'll see about rewording this.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Conquistador - Glory - squad confusion
-God(Rank 4)- it is not clear if they have to move immediately, or they gain this free activation and use it anytime, even carrying it over to the next turn.

When the Heroic Action occurs.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

-First Mate - What can this unit do with Influence range?

Give his TS/HM to friendly models within 5".

 WhiteRoo wrote:

-Cannoneer - Is that supposed to be 2 additional attack sets?

No, its meant to be two additional shots with the Panzardi.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Ral da Diabolito - Overrun(Also, M.A.V. - Overrun) - It is not clear if this 2 DE is an auto-hit, or a weapon hit. Maybe it should be "As it would attack with a sword" or "As it would attack a 2 DE weapon"

Weapon Attack, as it doesn't have a Melee Weapon otherwise.

 WhiteRoo wrote:
- Lucky Star - is he should be considered slain when he looses his Valkyr or if he looses it's Valkyr and not attack afterwards? This does not really do much since pilots have no resource value so when the Valkyr falls, it's goes to the lost resources heap and the pilot is worth nothing.

Luca has two profiles (as do several other models like her), they are seperate entries.. When she is in her Valkyr she does not have Lucky Star.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Civitan Marine - Partizan - The Civitan marine has no Squad description so it is hard to tell if they can be in a squad with Conscripts.

Its a Conscript ability to activate with Marines.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

-Pistolero - It's 3 attacks per Pistol, or +1 attack to it's ranged attack set?

We'll clarify this.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Mouse Lancer - Striking Leap - Can the Lancer move before it executes Striking leap?

Yes.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Armory:
Iron Skin - 4 AR Shield, Shield - ???

Typo.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Light Panzardi-guns - so if the enemy squad has 5 members, this thing fires 10 times? This description is a little bit head scratching because it doesn't follows the terminology of the book. I'd suggest to reword it as "2 attacks after every model in the target squad" as "X attacks" is used if a weapon has multiple attacks even if the weapon is ranged, so using "fires" can be confusing. Also, it should be worded in the same way as the Panzardi Speciale is, as these two are very similar.

there was a bit of copy-pasta error here, its getting fixed.

A note about the Steeds of Wuhuan, the only melee equipment the Lem Han have access to is a Poleax and the Chicken Steed. Neither of those have Anti-Charge as a weapon property. So in theory Steeds of Wuhuan could remain as it is.

Also Cyp, Chicken on page 140 should be changed to Chicken Steed so that it matches the Lem Han entry on page 139

 Cyporiean wrote:

Luca has two profiles (as do several other models like her), they are seperate entries.. When she is in her Valkyr she does not have Lucky Star.

I get that. What I referring to as she will never count toward the slain units as the plain number of the slain units is not counted as far as I know. Their resource amount is counted. And so when her Valkyr falls it's cost will be added to your slain model resource total. She may die or live once she is in foot, it will not change the total. Nor any Valkyr Pilot.

So the part that says "If this effect is still in play at the end of game, Luca da Vacanti (on Foot) is considered slain." really not change anything, no?

It only implies that if the match is part of a campaign game, after she lost her Valkyr, she cannot been saved unless she attacks at least once.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:

Luca has two profiles (as do several other models like her), they are seperate entries.. When she is in her Valkyr she does not have Lucky Star.

I get that. What I referring to as she will never count toward the slain units as the plain number of the slain units is not counted as far as I know. Their resource amount is counted. And so when her Valkyr falls it's cost will be added to your slain model resource total. She may die or live once she is in foot, it will not change the total. Nor any Valkyr Pilot.

So the part that says "If this effect is still in play at the end of game, Luca da Vacanti (on Foot) is considered slain." really not change anything, no?

It only implies that if the match is part of a campaign game, after she lost her Valkyr, she cannot been saved unless she attacks at least once.

Its to prevent a player from putting an untargetable model on an objective in the intent to claim it without worry.

How phases structure then?

- Squad Phase
- Movement Phase --> before and/or after this, you can use your tactical and heroic actions
- Now you Choose a target squad or end your activation. In the rest of the turn you can only attack the target squad you choose now.
- Ranged Phase
- Now if your squad is not in charge range with your target squad, you have to end your activation. If it is, you can still end your activation.
- Charge!
- Charge Reaction
- Melee Phase
- End of activation

Is this right?

 WhiteRoo wrote:
How phases structure then?

- Squad Phase
- Movement Phase --> before and/or after this, you can use your tactical and heroic actions
- Now you Choose a target squad or end your activation. In the rest of the turn you can only attack the target squad you choose now.
- Ranged Phase
- Now if your squad is not in charge range with your target squad, you have to end your activation. If it is, you can still end your activation.
- Charge!
- Charge Reaction
- Melee Phase
- End of activation

Is this right?

Pretty much, but Charging is part of the Melee Phase and Tactical Actions also have to be against the same target of your ranged/melee attacks.

 Cyporiean wrote:

 WhiteRoo wrote:


Its to prevent a player from putting an untargetable model on an objective in the intent to claim it without worry.

But you can still move her to the objective. You can hold it with her or at least stop the opponent to get it since she is there. And at the end of the game the other player still wasn't able to get that objective since she was there, and you neither because she is not there. No?

I think you can only move movable objectives if no enemy model is B2B with it. So she can use her lucky star to stop an objective like that, no? She may bi slain at the end of the match but the objective will not move until then.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:

Its to prevent a player from putting an untargetable model on an objective in the intent to claim it without worry.

But you can still move her to the objective. You can hold it with her or at least stop the opponent to get it since she is there. And at the end of the game the other player still wasn't able to get that objective since she was there, and you neither because she is not there. No?

I think you can only move movable objectives if no enemy model is B2B with it. So she can use her lucky star to stop an objective like that, no? She may bi slain at the end of the match but the objective will not move until then.

Luca is sitting on an Objective, and still has Lucky Star
You move a Rat Raider to the Objective.
If Luca still has Lucky Star by the end of the game, she doesn't get credit for the Objective but your Rat Raider does.

 Cyporiean wrote:


Pretty much, but Charging is part of the Melee Phase and Tactical Actions also have to be against the same target of your ranged/melee attacks.

I see... but then... there is two kinds of melee phase. One that has Charge and Counterattack in it and one that doesn't. I don't think that will turn out right. I suggest to keep the term "melee phase" for the part when melee weapons swing, and name the maneuver <charge, charge reaction, melee phase> something else. As the melee phase is the last step of this event chain but also used outside of it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cyporiean wrote:

 WhiteRoo wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:

Its to prevent a player from putting an untargetable model on an objective in the intent to claim it without worry.

But you can still move her to the objective. You can hold it with her or at least stop the opponent to get it since she is there. And at the end of the game the other player still wasn't able to get that objective since she was there, and you neither because she is not there. No?

I think you can only move movable objectives if no enemy model is B2B with it. So she can use her lucky star to stop an objective like that, no? She may bi slain at the end of the match but the objective will not move until then.

Luca is sitting on an Objective, and still has Lucky Star
You move a Rat Raider to the Objective.
If Luca still has Lucky Star by the end of the game, she doesn't get credit for the Objective but your Rat Raider does.

Unless you are supposed to move the objective, which you can't since there is an enemy model b2b with it. It might not score for Luca's controller, but not for me either, at least not that much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I just realized, the Aquatar Gopher Engineer's "This is how we say goodbye in Aquataar" is also targeting a squad with template attacks.

Furthermore this will come up more often since now you can only attack one targetted squad in your activation. What if your squad's ranged attack is a template attack?

Models do not count as being dead when they move to their second profile. Only after being slain in their second profile, or in Luca's case if Lucky Star is still in effect, do they give their kill points to the opponent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
We'll add a notation that templates do not have to target the same thing as the rest of your attacks.

So my biggest gripe from the game the other day was how shut down my army felt because I had NOTHING to counter the TS of the vizier. Everything he hit with mirage had, at best, about a 1/5 chance of resisting, some lower. You guys made good points about why that is okay; Vizier has exceptional TS, still need LOS. Those are good points, but I think it's worth noting that I was being hit with Lvl 1 mirage. At higher levels the vizier can use my own models to attack allies, and then lose their activation. It'd be a big deal if I was fighting, essentially, one full unit down every turn.

So, what's the most balanced way to help players mitigate this kind of thing? I was was imagining a banner or instrument, since some of them already give HM or ES.

Also DAT TORTOISE.

 Zygrot24 wrote:
So my biggest gripe from the game the other day was how shut down my army felt because I had NOTHING to counter the TS of the vizier. Everything he hit with mirage had, at best, about a 1/5 chance of resisting, some lower. You guys made good points about why that is okay; Vizier has exceptional TS, still need LOS. Those are good points, but I think it's worth noting that I was being hit with Lvl 1 mirage. At higher levels the vizier can use my own models to attack allies, and then lose their activation. It'd be a big deal if I was fighting, essentially, one full unit down every turn.

Mirage is going to be hit with the nerf bat slightly, it'll no longer allow you to Rush the target at Rank 1.

While the Vizier is a beast at TS, his VY is only 4 with 3 AR.. so he'll go down pretty easily.

We all know that misk and em made Scyzantium OP to sell models to Gavin