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 Lockark wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:
Whose to say the Pirates didn't end up somewhere else?

They gotta make port somewhere afterall

As snap. They got hired by AL! Curse you AL!
=O

Nah, Not AL...

Just a few other random ideas for mec units my brain was able to stew up. Just throwing them out their to see what sticks.

-The "dovahkiin" or "Beowulf" hamster. The battle weary viklander hamster who wonders the world in search of the "dragon" that destroyed his home village. At some point he has come into conflict with the "trolls", "Frost Giants", and "jotnar" that his honoured ancestors once fought. Narratively I think it works best if this happens well he is looking for the dragon. Way to much potential for how this guy could be designed.

(The idea was touched upon before, so just throwing it out their agien.)

-A solo Exemplar voodoo witch doctor in a top hat. For species I'm thinking Hyena of course. Never could think of much beyond that. Realy I think it's just because I feel Brushfire could use more top hats. He also needs to be a heavy smoker and a heavy drinker. (Bassicly a reference to Baron Samedi)

-Cossack Wolves rideing... um... Ostriches? Emus? Bigger Wolves?

-Jaguar Mercs? Hunter and the Theif describes roaming bands of them comeing into conflict with the Civitans.

-Maby a Witch/healer women who is a practicer of the "old faith". Sort of like a marmot medic anyone can take. Bassicly a way to get some Non-unique Merc exemplars into the list.

I was flipping trough the new book.

I haven't came across the single target rule. It is possible that I just haven't found it. What is the situation with that?

What part of the book shoud I concentrate on?

Single target rule?

The one about you are supposed to target only one squad during an activation, and you can't shoot at a squad and charge a different one.

Page 16, Chaining Attacks.

Fount it! Thanks!

I think this should be at the begining of the activation phases chapter at page 12. It should be marked with an orange title as the phases, because it's kinda important and affects the whole activation. At least I think.

Also, then what happens if you eliminate a squad before your melee phase? Can you charge a different one in that case?

I agree, We'll move it to a more prominent location.


On the second point, We're not wholly sure. I can see it from both perspectives (It makes it a tactical decision to nuke a weak unit vs do we really want to punish you for doing your job?)

Does anyone care to chime in with an opinion?

If you eliminate your target squad in a previous phase, should you be able to change targets in a successive phase?

In one way it penalizes underdog units that get lucky, in another it slows down 'death stars' like character squads, preventing them from nuking too much in a single activation.

To me it feels most games don't let you do that for the reason cyporiean mentioned. It lets "Deathstars" do to much in a single phase.

In my limited experience I haven't seen any problems with death stars since most units seem to excell in shooting or Melee. But not both.

The only experience I have is with Warmachine/Hordes, Malifaux, and 40k.

In the first two games, you're not limited by phases and in the first game, you can't even charge and shoot in the same turn without a specific ability. In 40k, you cannot charge a unit you did not shoot at, but if that unit no longer exists, then you're fine to do with them as you please. So it's not uncommon to try and blow up a transport to get at the juicy infantry inside. I did it last night while playing. Shot at a couple of Dark Eldar Venoms to try and pop them so I could charge the guys inside. I failed to destroy them, so I had to charge the vehicle, and not the guys inside.

It would certainly have to be tested, but I don't think it's too big of a jump to say, you must charge/melee the squad you shot at, unless of course that squad is gone.

Heavy and Light cavarly units are pretty much deathstars and could gain a lot from the retarget option. As they can shoot and meele well, always keep ther MS and RS and they have a lot of options during their activations. You can move(rush) into max range, shoot, charge or run if it didn't slain it, move towards a different target and charge that if it did. Or go and hide.

On a side note, I have searched the books for Heavy & Light Cavalry units, and this keyword is used differently in unit basis. Sometimes it's "Heavy & Light Cavalry" other times it's "Light & Heavy Cavalry", and it's also sometimes "Heavy Cavalry, Light Cavalry" or the other way.

If you cannot retarget, then you still can activate just enough units to kill that squad and activate the rest later to charge a different one.

I've 2 Troops, 3 Exemplars, and 1 Hero in the planning stages for Mercs Only Additions... gotta do some internal checks/balances on them before we throw them at you, but they should prove to be useful for some folks. Though I think the hero I wrote up might wait until the Book 3 Playtest.

2 of them are based on Lockark's suggestions.

 Cyporiean wrote:
I've 2 Troops, 3 Exemplars, and 1 Hero in the planning stages for Mercs Only Additions... gotta do some internal checks/balances on them before we throw them at you, but they should prove to be useful for some folks. Though I think the hero I wrote up might wait until the Book 3 Playtest.

2 of them are based on Lockark's suggestions.

But no beaver lumberjacks? D:

I'm getting a deeper look into cavalry charging because as far as I have seen it, it is a pretty weird maneuver.

So the squad is foregoing it's movement and ranged phases and move in any direction in a straight line as long as two times their movement plus their total charge range, attacking every squad in this line, or rather in a rectangle area.

Since this is a charge, it ignores obstacles, so you can charge trough solid walls. If a model is in the top of an assault terrain, it still has line of sight with models under it, so the game rules allow a Heavy cavalry unit to bypass the assault by cavalry charging the units on the assault terrain

I assume this rectangle is as wide as the squad is and as long as the charge+rush distance. I believe spreading your models out to make the area wider is allowed, but you have to do it in the squad's previous activation, since you have to forgo this movement phase for the charge.

The rectangle can be as wide as the base of the models plus 3 inch between every two models in the squad. I guess... It might be working on a model basis so you have as many rectangles as models as wide as their bases, but the text doesn't indicate that.

Every squad(friend or foe) that falls under this rectangle at least with one model receives one melee attack set from every model in the charging squad as ranged attack. So if a squad is only being charged over by one model of the chargers, they still receive all attack sets. (If cavalry Charge is model based, then only from models that actually pass that squad).

They may counterattack and even slain models of the charging squad indicating that you have to resolve the attacks and counterattacks starting with the closest squad.

After that, the squad will most likely also forgo it's Melee Phase since squads can't stop short of this charge and therefore the squad is not likely to end up in base to base with any model.

Am I interpreting it right?


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This maneuver works really really badly for most single model squads, since even the mightiest melee weapon is only deals 4 damage and the rectangle will only ever be as wide as the base of the model, making it unlikely to hit more squad than one, especially if the enemy sees it coming. Regardless it is the only way to attack units hiding behind a low wall.

This charge will also not trigger abilities like Feline Rage.

On top of that the cavalry charging single model squad will end up behind enemy squads, activated and not in melee with them.

Having a squad cavalry charge however can be devastating as tree model can make a rectangle 10-11 inch wide, and tree attack stets can deal a lot of damage. (A five model cavalry charge can be 20 inch wide)

But only a handful of squads can perform Cavalry Charge in a squad. The Badger in the Iron Claw and it's squad, the Civitan Marine if it's equipped with axes, the Gecko Rider, the Faravahar, the Gallowglass with at least one Milean Knight, the Shaka War-Hog(which is a horde unit on top of that) and Oruç & Hızır's squad and the Heavy Brigadier with the Lead the Charge boon, or it can give it to any squad with the Fatal Charge ability.

(Side note, the Gallowglasses What Is Your Quest? ability, gains the mixed squad of knights and gallowglasses Elite Heavy Cavalry type. This squad - based on the ability - can be 10 model top, but the Elite type only allows a squad to have 5 models in it. I believe it would be more clear if they would gain Heavy Cavalry type and immune to Shock)

See Matt's post below.

So it's model based. Okay.


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Wait, hang on, charge targeting is squad based. "E" may be hit if it's in a squad with "C". Depends on damage distribution.

And if "A" and "B" is in a squad, then their squad only receives two attacks instead of tree.

You are correct 'Roo, you treat them like ranged attacks, not Melee attacks.

Targeting is 'squad based', but as no model passes through model E, attacks are not allocated to it.

If A & B are a squad, they suffer 3 Attacks. If D, C & E are a squad, C and D suffer 3 attacks (altogether, not each)

The ignoring terrain mechanic will be adjusted so that these models stop short of Assault Terrain and other Blocking Terrain. They shouldn't be moving through walls. Leave that for Assaults, or destroying fortifications with siege.

So you cannot allocate damage on a model that is not in the area a charger passes trough.

But a charger attacks every model that is in it's target charge rectangle with one melee attack set each. Damage can only be allocated to the models that are passed trough. And on the case of the "1" charger, the defender may not allocate the the damage "A" received on "B", not even if those are in one squad?

Right?

(Em retracted her statement, she was just waking up)

a single squad would receive all the attacks of the charging squad. If A and B are not in the same squad, A's squad would receive 3 attack sets, and B's squad would receive 3 attack sets. Model E would never be able to have attacks allocated to it as no model passes through it.

Individual models are not attacked, entire squads are attacked.

So, if A, B, C, D and E is one squad as well 1, 2 and 3, if this charge is happens, then Squad A-E receives 3 or 5 attack sets?

As a squad they only getting passed by 3 chargers, so 3 attack sets.

As models, 1 and 3 hits two models and 2 hits one that totals to 5.

Either way the defender may not allocate damage on E, since that model is not in the way.

3 Attack sets. Its not about how many times any models get run over, just which ones get run over. I'll see about clarifying this.

So even if A, B, C and D all gets to run over, I can allocate all damage on D? (then C and so on and maybe A will not receive any damage)

Sorry haven't been on much the last little while. Thanks for answering my questions Em. Pwetty pwease put the mercs in the big book of Brushfire! I'll be very happy to see such a product!

Yes, you'd stack all damage on a single model in a squad, until its dead just like ranged attacks.

If a squad performs a cavalry charge, can that squad perform a melee phase in that activation?

Cavalry Charge is your Melee Phase.

 Cyporiean wrote:
Cavalry Charge is your Melee Phase.

For WhiteRoo's reference where can he find this rule?

Page 22, 'Cavalry Charge'

Models that have this ability may forgo moving during their Movement Phase to add their Rush Speed to their Charge Range.

If they are charging, its the Melee Phase.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:
Cavalry Charge is your Melee Phase.

For WhiteRoo's reference where can he find this rule?

You know me




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cyporiean wrote:
Page 22, 'Cavalry Charge'

Models that have this ability may forgo moving during their Movement Phase to add their Rush Speed to their Charge Range.

If they are charging, its the Melee Phase.

That is a little bit vague...

I'd suggest to reword it like this:
Models with this ability may forgo thier Movement, Ranged and Melee phases (but may use tactical and heroic actions before(or after?) doing so) and execute a Cavarly Charge...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How about charging MS bonus? Do models get that for Cavarly Charge?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Looks like it is not necessary for a Cavalry Charge to hit something, so it can be used to move double speed plus five inches in a straight line ignoring many movement restrictions while also keeping MS, RS and ES.