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We'll get it clarified, You'll have to actually hit something like a normal charge, and you'll get the MS bonus.

And you can't stop short on that charge. Right?

Unless you run into blocking terrain or you'd land on a model.(this will get noted in a future update)

What if the charging model ends up on other models? Does it pushes those models and make room or stops short?

 WhiteRoo wrote:
What if the charging model ends up on other models? Does it pushes those models and make room or stops short?

Stops short.

Stops Short, pretty sure that is in the movement rules.


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Pg. 13

Obstructions
Models cannot end their movement on other Models or certain terrain types. If their maximum movement would result in a Model’s base landing on another Model, Impassible Terrain, or Unstable Terrain, the Model must end their movement short.

Interesting... I mean Heavy Cavalry models are usually on bigger bases. If there is no room to place the models to the end of the range, they fall back on the charge line until there is a place to put them. Which means models that these models can't been put behind will not receive any attacks either, no? Even if they are technically in range.

Let's go for the extreme here: Loxadon probably will only going to Cavalry charge until he reaches the first model. Beyond that, most likely there will be no room to place down a 120mm base.

 WhiteRoo wrote:
Interesting... I mean Heavy Cavalry models are usually on bigger bases. If there is no room to place the models to the end of the range, they fall back on the charge line until there is a place to put them. Which means models that these models can't been put behind will not receive any attacks either, no? Even if they are technically in range.

Let's go for the extreme here: Loxadon probably will only going to Cavalry charge until he reaches the first model. Beyond that, most likely there will be no room to place down a 120mm base.

That's why you have premeasuring... you can ensure you can do what you want before you declare you can do it. And you're overestimating how much space a 120mm base takes up. I regularly play with one in my Trollbloods army, and I've only had to worry once about the size of my base, and unlike Brushfire, there isn't pre-measuring in Warmachine, so I had to commit to my Trample before checking to see if I could fit into the 4.75" space that was there. If I could premeasure, I would have seen my trample wouldn't have worked and I wouldn't have wasted the action.

It would been cool to bodyslam enemy units into walls with charging Valkyrs. Also, a giant elefant stopping it's charge because it bumps into a mouse is just wierd.

But okay, if that's how it works. I guess elephants reall fear mice.

 WhiteRoo wrote:
I guess elephants reall fear mice.

I didn't seen that one coming...


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But I think there will be some timing conflict then.

You have to move the charging models first to see how far they get and what models they will attack exactly, so what models are allowed to counterstrike or fire back.

But Charge Reactions should happen before the chargers move to see how far the chargers go.

Figure out how far they cav charge, then determine charge reactions. Resolve the Attacks/Reactions of the nearest enemy squad, then the next and so on. If a model is dead before it reaches the distance that would stop it/the squad from continuing the charge further, oh well, they still stop short.

That reminds me. How do you perform anti-charge on a Cavalry Charging squad? The most common anti-charge weapon is the Pike, a melee weapon. But during this anti-charge the opposing models are not in b2b. Melee targeting will not work, not to mention the extended reach thing.

All charge reactions work differently against a Cavalry Charge, the targeting works like ranged attacks, just as the Cavalry Charge works (or Counterfire). Anti-Charge/Counterattack just stack against any model in the squad until it's dead. (Again this will be clarified in the book)

It is not clear how a cannon interacts with units hiding behind low walls. Cannons ignore line of sight, but the range is cut short on blocking terrain. It is not clear if the Low Wall is a blocking terrain for the cannon.

Also it looks like Light Cavalry can hide behind low walls, in the next activation rush out, fire then rush back and hide behind the wall again. Is that intended?

The Low Wall is blocking Terrain if a model is hiding behind it.

 Cyporiean wrote:
The Low Wall is blocking Terrain if a model is hiding behind it.

Which is something that Misk said pages ago that was something that cavalry could do.

You'll just have to go around light cav behind low walls, or drop something like a trebuchet's attacks on them.

I bring cannons.

I think it would be much clearer if the Low Wall would not change it's blocking/obscuring state, instead it would say that models that are hiding behind low wall cannot been targeted with ranged attacks -except template attacks- as long as the low wall would obscure that ranged attack.

Currently, it says that the wall somehow grows to block LoS, so obviously a cannon cannot deal damage models behind it. In the same time, if those models are not hiding, it can. Also, models further behind that wall are legit targets and the wall does not block, even if models hiding behind it.

In the same time, the cannon is a template attack, so you can legibly shoot at hiding models behind it with template attacks as long as the middle of the template is behind the wall. The wall only blocks to the hiding models but a cannon doesn't aim at models. I'm actually not sure about this last one.


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Also, ES bonus is granted for the defender if a template attack comes beyond an obscuring terrain piece?

The concept is that models are ducking below the low wall to hide from incoming fire. The wall doesnt 'grow'.

Yes you could drop a template at the edge of a low wall, and still hit some models hiding behind it. They would get the +2 ES bonus treating their blocking terrain as cover.

 miskatonicalum wrote:
The concept is that models are ducking below the low wall to hide from incoming fire. The wall doesnt 'grow'.

That's why I think the mechanic shouldn't change the block/obscure state of the low wall. Saying istead that hiding models are cannot been directly targeted from the other side of the wall with ranged attacks accomplishes the same, but the Low Wall doesn't have to have two types. I believe it would make the rules easier to follow. I don't think the blocking mechanic has to be involved here.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

 miskatonicalum wrote:
The concept is that models are ducking below the low wall to hide from incoming fire. The wall doesnt 'grow'.

That's why I think the mechanic shouldn't change the block/obscure state of the low wall. Saying istead that hiding models are cannot been directly targeted from the other side of the wall with ranged attacks accomplishes the same, but the Low Wall doesn't have to have two types. I believe it would make the rules easier to follow. I don't think the blocking mechanic has to be involved here.

The offset for the majority of models on the board is that they cannot shoot from behind a wall if they are hiding behind it. Cavalry is just an oddity to the rule.

If Light Cavalry can do that, the book really should mention it. I can see that oddity to generate a lot of "WTF" moments from the players this tactic is being used against.

I'm probably going to use this on my next game, I'll tell you how it goes.

Lots of abilities can give 'WTF Moments' the first the you see them.

 Cyporiean wrote:
Lots of abilities can give 'WTF Moments' the first the you see them.

We like to call those tactics

Edit: Wtf is journey to the east?

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:
Lots of abilities can give 'WTF Moments' the first the you see them.

We like to call those tactics

Edit: Wtf is journey to the east?

They are cheating and you should feel bad.

But seriously, walls are not a big deal. If you're ducking you're not doing much else, and that's almost as good as killing the unit. Also, cannons.

A play on the title of a classic Chinese story.

Saying things like Low Wall blocks LoS and cannons blocked by LoS, then that a Low Wall doesn't blocks a cannon is a little bit twisted. (to be clear, the book doesn't say that, just it is easy to assume from that what it says)

Same thing with walls and light cavalry. You can hide or shoot, except if the model is light cavalry. which case you can do both, not because of hiding, but because of rushing fire. Knowing that is a little bit of a hidden knowledge. If a beginner looses because he doesn't know that, it can loose enthusiasm for the game easily.

If you are showing some brand new to the game, and pulling out your most hardcore play style to crush them into the ground, then yes... They will have a bad time, and probably not want to play anymore.

If you show someone how to play without being TFG, and show the new player the ins and outs it will be a much more enjoyable experience. You could even choose to NOT use the Rushing Fire/Hide tactic in your initial games and just mention it as being a thing after you show them the ropes.