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Here I am, bored as hell at work, not much going on, when it hit me.

The 40K fluff talks about Psykers scientifically proven to excist as a result of genetic mutation of the human species in time. At this point, Psykers began emerging all over the galaxy, some with mastery of their powers and others still quite green.

What if Psykers actually excist in this time and era? Or what if they have excisted in very small numbers since the dawn of man?

What if some of the people dubbed as witches and psychopaths are actually psykers emerging and evolving?

Maybe some of the unexplained phenomena like levitation of objects and spontanious combustion are caused by psykers unbeknownst of their ability.

And what if maybe certain historic individuals throughout religions and places of the world were actually psykers and believed miracle workers??? (Hint hint)

It would surely make us look at the future of our species very differently.

Thoughts???

Think you might need to take a step back and realise that 40K is just a game, dude...

That said, i'd not rule it out

There are more things in heaven and earth and all that...

Are you implying what I think you are implying? Heresy some may say.......

gonna have to go with him here, the Imperium is gonna need to be installed preetty soon now if psykers would start coming out of the woodwork.

There goes the neighbourhood ...

When was First Contact with the Orks again? I wanna switch species

*BLAM* DIE HERETIC!

I have begun the process. Now we just need to find the emperor.

I don't see how this is heretical talk, seeing how psykers are what keeps the Imperium going.

 BattleCapIronblood wrote:
Here I am, bored as hell at work, not much going on, when it hit me.

The 40K fluff talks about Psykers scientifically proven to excist as a result of genetic mutation of the human species in time. At this point, Psykers began emerging all over the galaxy, some with mastery of their powers and others still quite green.

What if Psykers actually excist in this time and era? Or what if they have excisted in very small numbers since the dawn of man?

What if some of the people dubbed as witches and psychopaths are actually psykers emerging and evolving?

Maybe some of the unexplained phenomena like levitation of objects and spontanious combustion are caused by psykers unbeknownst of their ability.

And what if maybe certain historic individuals throughout religions and places of the world were actually psykers and believed miracle workers??? (Hint hint)

It would surely make us look at the future of our species very differently.

Thoughts???

What, you mean the unexplained phenomena which have never been proven to exist scientifically? You mean the "certain historic individuals" who are very likely a storybook amalgamation of several individuals and/or a total fictionalisation of one person who may or may not have even existed?

Sorry pal, the reason people find fantastical fiction so appealing is because there's no such thing in reality; ESP doesn't exist, there are no telekines in the local mental ward, and while people are free to believe what they want to and in many cases those beliefs bring them personal comfort, there's no factual basis for religious beliefs(that's sort of the whole point).

Someone has been watching Ancient Aliens and misunderstood it for a documentary.

When seen through Western eyes, yes, there is no such thing as psychics. However, the Western world is not the whole of the Earth. Eastern cultures have practiced many different "psychic" arts since pre-history, from the soothsayers of Delphi to modern day Reiki. Westerners scoff at the concept because it hasn't been "scientifically proven", which translates to being taught in the Western educational system. Yet, the Western view is not exactly true, has there has been numerous studies into the fields of energy healing and extra-sensory perception, with verying results. Unfortunately, due to those fields being considered "fringe" science (ie, not main stream), there is no foundamental way to gain honest peer review on the subject in the Western world. And as such, Westerners will ignore centuries of Eastern documentation and practice.

Not to say that I feel 40k style psykers are present in today's world. Yet if the fluff behind 40k is to see is "truth", then psykers as we know them probably won't come into existence for a while yet, seeing as we do not quite have the ability to fabricate designer human being with tailored genetic codes. Maybe in the few more years.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
When seen through Western eyes, yes, there is no such thing as psychics. However, the Western world is not the whole of the Earth. Eastern cultures have practiced many different "psychic" arts since pre-history, from the soothsayers of Delphi to modern day Reiki. Westerners scoff at the concept because it hasn't been "scientifically proven", which translates to being taught in the Western educational system. Yet, the Western view is not exactly true, has there has been numerous studies into the fields of energy healing and extra-sensory perception, with verying results. Unfortunately, due to those fields being considered "fringe" science (ie, not main stream), there is no foundamental way to gain honest peer review on the subject in the Western world. And as such, Westerners will ignore centuries of Eastern documentation and practice.

Not to say that I feel 40k style psykers are present in today's world. Yet if the fluff behind 40k is to see is "truth", then psykers as we know them probably won't come into existence for a while yet, seeing as we do not quite have the ability to fabricate designer human being with tailored genetic codes. Maybe in the few more years.

SJ

'scientifically proven' doesn't mean taught in Western education systems. It means if something is empirically proven and peer reviewed. Penicillin is scientifically proven, Homeopathy is bs. Energy healing is bs. Most alternative medicines 'work' as placebo's. You know what alternative medicine that works is called? Medicine.

Tailored genetic codes won't create psykers. That's not how biology, chemistry or physics work. It is quite literally impossible to control objects with the pwoer of your mind, to read other people's mind etc. That's not how physics, atoms or electrons work. There's no gene for E.S.P.

Just saying, if you can prove you are a psyker you can win a million dollars. ( no joke, i dont remember who, but there is a "bounty" on psychic folks, if you can prove under real scientific circumstances that you are a psychic you win the prize )

But we already have psykers, Uri Gellar anyone?
Or to use his real name, Malcador...

I've always held the belief that Physics, Chemistry and Biology as we know them only work because enough smart people believe that they SHOULD.

Think about quantum wave/particle duality; the state of a quantum wave/particle is altered because it is being observed!

How crazy is that, honestly?!

Therefore, I think we, as a species generate a kind of gestalt control over the universe when our beliefs align!

Edit: We'z well orky!

Rustgob wrote:
I've always held the belief that Physics, Chemistry and Biology as we know them only work because enough smart people believe that they SHOULD.

Think about quantum wave/particle duality; the state of a quantum wave/particle is altered because it is being observed!

How crazy is that, honestly?!

Therefore, I think we, as a species generate a kind of gestalt control over the universe when our beliefs align!

Edit: We'z well orky!

They have been working like that a lot longer than we have been observing them. With the observations, you could have a cow, or a duck observing it, not saying understnading it, and you would get the same results.

This thread is really annoying to me personally. Its a GAME for petes sake!

 BattleCapIronblood wrote:
What if Psykers actually excist in this time and era? Or what if they have excisted in very small numbers since the dawn of man?

If they did they'd be scientifically studied by now, more likely than not.

All of those that have claimed supernatural abilities have been shown to be fakes; they use stage magician tricks to perform their "magic".

If a psyker gene was to mutate, naturally or artificially, and yet was completely unable to reproduce any level of psychic feats and thus required the psyker to resort to mundane trickery...

... well, that's not really much of a psyker gene is it?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
There was a story of a lady from India (I believe) who thought her brain was electromagnetic, that she had special powers that allowed her to pull things towards her with her mind.

She pushed quarters against the skin of her forehead and they stuck there for a while, LAHK MAHJICK. Gee, I must be fething magneto because I can do that, too!

(US quarters aren't even magnetic, btw)

FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote:

Rustgob wrote:
I've always held the belief that Physics, Chemistry and Biology as we know them only work because enough smart people believe that they SHOULD.

Think about quantum wave/particle duality; the state of a quantum wave/particle is altered because it is being observed!

How crazy is that, honestly?!

Therefore, I think we, as a species generate a kind of gestalt control over the universe when our beliefs align!

Edit: We'z well orky!

They have been working like that a lot longer than we have been observing them. With the observations, you could have a cow, or a duck observing it, not saying understnading it, and you would get the same results.

This thread is really annoying to me personally. Its a GAME for petes sake!

How do we know? We can't measure the result of a cow or duck observing without measuring it ourselves, thus twisting the outcome!

You would think, if psychic's really existed, they would prove it scientifically, rather than merely claiming it. Many people "claim" to have proved it, but when those same people have been tested in a non-biased, scientific enviroment, they have proven to not be so.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
When seen through Western eyes, yes, there is no such thing as psychics. However, the Western world is not the whole of the Earth. Eastern cultures have practiced many different "psychic" arts since pre-history, from the soothsayers of Delphi to modern day Reiki. Westerners scoff at the concept because it hasn't been "scientifically proven", which translates to being taught in the Western educational system. Yet, the Western view is not exactly true, has there has been numerous studies into the fields of energy healing and extra-sensory perception, with verying results. Unfortunately, due to those fields being considered "fringe" science (ie, not main stream), there is no foundamental way to gain honest peer review on the subject in the Western world. And as such, Westerners will ignore centuries of Eastern documentation and practice.

Are you serious?

Really?

REALLY?

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

There ya go. Nobody has claimed it yet and it's been around since 1964.

 Ascalam wrote:
Think you might need to take a step back and realise that 40K is just a game, dude...

^Thread complete

Correct, there are a lot of liars, quacks, charlatans, and cheats out there.

But no real psychics have ever come forth. No real psychics have ever managed to prove that their "tricks" are anything but that-- common tricks performed by stage magicians and conjurers.

There are many people who claim to be able to speak with the dead. They always have a specific style in how they go about doing so. Given that psykers are so widely varied and seemingly random in not only what powers they have but also how they actually use those powers (for example, a diviner might receive a message through a vision... or through receiving a slip of paper in their own handwriting warning them of something about to happen), one wonders why every single one of them makes use of the exact same techniques as stage magicians use to perform similar "feats".

Well, one wonders that if one isn't actually paying attention. If one IS paying attention, one realizes that they are charlatans. "The real thing" has never been discovered, and its existence never proven.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
When seen through Western eyes, yes, there is no such thing as psychics. However, the Western world is not the whole of the Earth. Eastern cultures have practiced many different "psychic" arts since pre-history, from the soothsayers of Delphi to modern day Reiki. Westerners scoff at the concept because it hasn't been "scientifically proven", which translates to being taught in the Western educational system. Yet, the Western view is not exactly true, has there has been numerous studies into the fields of energy healing and extra-sensory perception, with verying results. Unfortunately, due to those fields being considered "fringe" science (ie, not main stream), there is no foundamental way to gain honest peer review on the subject in the Western world. And as such, Westerners will ignore centuries of Eastern documentation and practice.

Not to say that I feel 40k style psykers are present in today's world. Yet if the fluff behind 40k is to see is "truth", then psykers as we know them probably won't come into existence for a while yet, seeing as we do not quite have the ability to fabricate designer human being with tailored genetic codes. Maybe in the few more years.

SJ

What utter nonsense. Lets start with the obvious; reality doesn't care where on Earth you were born, the laws of physics are not different in China than they are in the UK. Now the next most obvious; you don't get to define what "scientifically proven" means, because it's already been defined, and that definition is responsible for every modern technology you take for granted, including the technology you're using right now to post this woo-loving. The reason that Reiki, Crystal Healing, Voodoo, or whatever other new-age corruption of pre-medical sillyness you favour are not taught in "the Western educational system" is because A; it fails to meet even the most basic requirement of a scientific proposition, that it be falsifiable, and/or B; most of it is incompatible with and even directly contrary to other knowledge which we already have and which has survived every test that's been thrown at it, and/or C; its proponents managed to struggle their way out of the bong-haze for long enough to make a serious attempt to prove their ideas valid, but failed to do so.

We don't teach doctors to bleed patients with a fever or give people with STIs a Tincture of Mercury anymore either, but sadly for anyone out there who might want to be a Medieval sawbones, European woo didn't get the same boost from the hippie generation as the novelty-woo from other parts of the world.

Rustgob wrote:
I've always held the belief that Physics, Chemistry and Biology as we know them only work because enough smart people believe that they SHOULD.

Think about quantum wave/particle duality; the state of a quantum wave/particle is altered because it is being observed!

How crazy is that, honestly?!

Therefore, I think we, as a species generate a kind of gestalt control over the universe when our beliefs align!

Edit: We'z well orky!

*sigh* There are days I really wish the general public had never heard the word "quantum".

Observer Effect is not magic, it's simply the factual statement that the method of taking measurements can cause the thing being measured to change - when you wire a voltmeter into a circuit, you add additional load to the system and thus alter its behaviour; when you measure the air pressure in a tire you must by necessity allow some air to escape and so on. That this proposition does not change when we're measuring extremely small things like subatomic particles is not strange or mystical, indeed if it did change and measuring subatomic phenomena didn't change the system being measured in some way, we'd have to throw out our entire bloody model of reality! When you know that the "observer", ie whatever you're using to take measurements, will alter the system, you can account for that by considering the "observer" as part of the system being measured. With systems on the macro scale, we can do that very easily, but it's much harder to get the math to make sense when dealing with quantum scale because we don't properly understand the bloody quantum scale of reality yet.

Now, get your icky philosophy out of my physics, do you have any idea how hard it is to scrub that stuff out?

 BattleCapIronblood wrote:
I don't see how this is heretical talk, seeing how psykers are what keeps the Imperium going.

Sure, the psykers make the big old broken Model T that is the Imperium work (barely) but they're also subject to some sort of prejudice. (Would it be called rascism, elitism, or what? I have no idea.)

I said heresy due to talk of defecting to another race.

I don't think anything is impossible, just improbable.

That said, I highly doubt that 40k pyskers exist in our time. Especially since we have the Warhammer 40k fictional setting in our reality, which would mean that Games Workshop is actually prophetic of humanity's fate. If only the Emperor had bought a copy of the 6th edition rule book, all of this Horus Heresy nonsense could've been avoided.

 Yodhrin wrote:

Correct stuff

The internet isn't the place to expect to find enlightenment. It's generally better to ignore those people with baseless fantastical beliefs, rather than to engage with them. You'll just get angry, and you won't convince anyone of anything. If they cared about facts in the first place they wouldn't believe such things anyway!

Someone should close this thread.

I've got no problems with that, good sir.

QFT

Please don't spam the forum. Thanks! ~Manchu

Alright, everyone needs to calm down. I was just making an observation on the fluff and the explanation it gives.

Yes, I am quite aware this is just a game.

Yes, if there was a way to scientifically proof a psyker's existence, we would've done it by now.

No, I don't even know what Ancient Aliens is. I only know of that meme with the guy with the crazy hair.

If anyone thinks I'm taking this seriously and my OP was meant as a way to arouse things, you need to rethink your postings. I merely open this threat for the fun of the psyker discussion IN THE FLUFF.

C'mon guys, let's keep it together.

Well since Nurgle was born of black death and Khorne around the time the Ghenghis was out a butchering half the world.. Then yes I would assume that speaking strictly in 40k lore all of our religious figures, witches, vampires, etc were psykers. Hell you could make the case that the early Roman and Greek Pantheons were nothing more than mutations themselves, perhaps pyskers who took to ruling over the people as "gods".