Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 wowsmash wrote:
I think what makes you appear like their greatest fan is more the fact of your selective reading. You see what you want to see and nothing more. You then blam others for not wanting to willing blinding themselves.

I guess you selectively read only the parts of my post that didn't talk about how I have many critiques of GW, huh? No hard feelings, just joking you.

 Kingsley wrote:

 wowsmash wrote:
I think what makes you appear like their greatest fan is more the fact of your selective reading. You see what you want to see and nothing more. You then blam others for not wanting to willing blinding themselves.

I guess you selectively read only the parts of my post that didn't talk about how I have many critiques of GW, huh? No hard feelings, just joking you.

You say that, but only in what appears to be a bid to save yourself from public ridicule - that and the "many critiques" weren't that many and frankly quite vague compared to your methodical cherry picking comments.

 Morachi wrote:
You say that, but only in what appears to be a bid to save yourself from public ridicule - that and the "many critiques" weren't that many and frankly quite vague compared to your methodical cherry picking comments.

If I loved GW, I wouldn't post on these forums. The main reason that I post here ("here" being in Dakka Discussions) is that I neither love nor hate GW and I can see myself potentially switching away from their games in the future. If so, I want Dakka to be a good place for me to find information on other games, and when Dakka or at least a substantial part of Dakka maintains this anti-GW bias, it's no longer a trustworthy source of information on other games.

Also, "cherry picking" seems to be the new no-content insult of the week. Get it while it's hot!

Well i'm open to other synonyms for "Cherry Picking", evidently if enough people are saying it then the context holds weight, or are you going to attempt brushing that aside too? Wait, don't answer that, I fear I know the answer and it would only cause more face palming.

The fact is, you very selectively go on tangents to the main issue, picking specific fact whilst disregarding the whole picture to favour your viewpoint. That is in essence, cherry picking. Nothing will change that i'm affraid.

It's not an insult if it is the truth. Funny thing about the truth is that it does not become false even if you don't believe in it.

 Morachi wrote:
Well i'm open to other synonyms for "Cherry Picking", evidently if enough people are saying it then the context holds weight, or are you going to attempt brushing that aside too? Wait, don't answer that, I fear I know the answer and it would only cause more face palming.

This sounds an awful lot like you're saying that if enough people say something, it becomes true.

 Morachi wrote:
The fact is, you very selectively go on tangents to the main issue, picking specific fact whilst disregarding the whole picture to favour your viewpoint. That is in essence, cherry picking. Nothing will change that i'm affraid.

Name three examples or go away. I'm getting increasingly bored with seeing criticisms without justification or reasoning behind them.

I'm saying if enough people make an observation on your conduct, then it holds weight. Your attempts at dismissing your peers isn't working, and only bolstering the views they hold against you, confirming their original agreed upon observation.

As for your examples, even if I pointed them out, you would refute each the very same way you have the entire thread - that and the thought of going back over 11 pages tedious at best. I'll get back to this when I have motivation to do so, i'm presently attempting to enjoy my Friday night here.

1. Ignoring to factor in the metal to plastic change with regards to price "reductions". It is in fact, different products replacing each other so they are not the "same" products. Factoring this in will not support your argument that prices are in fact dropping.

2. Saying that RTS is dead while ignoring the fact that an RTS, Starcraft 2, is one of the most popular videogames right now.

3. Saying that TSR and GW has no parallels except for the C&D thing (and saying that GW is in fact doing the opposite of what TSR is doing), even though posters already pointed out all of the parallels.

4. Saying that skirmish wargames and 40k/WHFB games are vastly too different to be considered as GW's direct competition. On this one you just consider your anecdotal evidence and ignore everyone else's anecdotal evidence.

5. Saying that KoW rules sucked and internet reviews agree (or at least call it "meh"), while a simple google search will reveal that it is full of good and positive feedback.


That's 5.

 Morachi wrote:
I'm saying if enough people make an observation on your conduct, then it holds weight.

Not when there are obvious perverse incentives at play.

 Morachi wrote:
As for your examples, even if I pointed them out, you would refute each the very same way you have the entire thread - that and the thought of going back over 11 pages tedious at best. I'll get back to this when I have motivation to do so, i'm presently attempting to enjoy my Friday night here.

Somehow I'm not surprised...

I love you heartserenade - I owe you a beer. I raise my bourbon to you as I one handedly type this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kingsley wrote:

 Morachi wrote:
I'm saying if enough people make an observation on your conduct, then it holds weight.

Not when there are obvious perverse incentives at play.

 Morachi wrote:
As for your examples, even if I pointed them out, you would refute each the very same way you have the entire thread - that and the thought of going back over 11 pages tedious at best. I'll get back to this when I have motivation to do so, i'm presently attempting to enjoy my Friday night here.

Somehow I'm not surprised...

Nor am I at your attempts at dismissal.

GW's actions are perverse, not the observations this community hold with good reason. Please see below, take your pick, hell mix and match perversions until your heart's content;

The Decade of Dickishness

Note: The following does not include the regular price increments, frankly there are too many to list. I'm sure there are many more addages to this, but these are the standout cliff notes.

2003 -

Online Sales in North America blocked, restricted only to GW Online Sales via their webstore. Distribution of goods outside US prohibited.

2009 -

Games Workshop send correspondence to eBay, requesting restrictions be imposed on the resale of any GW produced merchandise. eBay effectively flip them off.

2011 -

UK Embargo, blocking sales of GW product to anywhere outside of the UK.

Finecast (Failcast) is introduced as a cost cutting measure to the company, albeit at a much higher price to the consumer. Due to the high amount of defects in Finecast product casting some major retailers temporarily stop stocking it (Wayland Games in particular).

Further to the price hike on resin models an additional price rise is brought in shortly after in line with their 6 month/yearly "inflation" costs.

2012-

GW stores introduce single staffer model. Stores now close during lunchtimes. Provision of paints/materials that were previously a hobby starter "value add" are now revoked.

Mark Wells departs as CEO under speculative circumstances, his position being absorbed into the existing Director role (Tom "BIG CASH!" Kirby).

2013 -

Space Marine trademark. An Independent author a book removed from Amazon due to a claim by GW that they own the term "Space Marine". Games Workshop cops a bashing and it is cited that there are no grounds for such a long standing term to be considered "owned".

Social Media withdrawal. Games Workshop in the wake of the trademark backlash remove their HQ England and North American Facebook pages in a bid to silence the anger from fans and authors alike. GW cite that pushing customers to "local" pages is their reasoning for this - really this is a means to decentralising the backlash so customers have no central point of information on the subject. Comments are (and have been) disabled on YouTube to cripple any further negative response from being seen publicly.

Direct only rulebook announced which annoys many retailers. Not being able to sell the rulebook to the miniatures they stock is the reasoning behind this.

New trade guidelines for distributors and retailers. Canada now unable to partake in online sales at a retail level. Stores close as a result. Direct only ordering limits (reduced to 10% in some cases) imposed on distributors and retailers, reducing profit and forcing sales towards GW Online. Distribution and retail of goods outside North America & Canada now prohibited.

Bitz sales are also prohibited at risk of the affiliated account being cut off from supply.

Digital book price rise. Books on iTunes are raised to that of hardback prices.

GAMA and other Retailer events. GW basically flip everyone the bird, bringing in a single blank demo table. Their "paint workshop" was nothing more than a "Here's a space marine and five paints - have at it"... and a single rep repeating the same line in response to angered retailers "There's nothing I can do, but i'll pass on your concerns". No comments, no feedback, just stone walling.

Stock delayed to retailers, whilst plenty is available online via GW Direct. This is seen as a means to boost online sales through GW direct web/mail order channels, whilst reducing profit loss normally occurring by sales through retail/distribution channels.

 Morachi wrote:
I love you heartserenade - I owe you a beer. I raise my bourbon to you as I one handedly type this.

Too bad he can't see the things I typed. I guess he's also ignoring the fact that other people are making sense.

Oh really? Well I better quote it then for visibility sake.

 heartserenade wrote:
1. Ignoring to factor in the metal to plastic change with regards to price "reductions". It is in fact, different products replacing each other so they are not the "same" products. Factoring this in will not support your argument that prices are in fact dropping.

2. Saying that RTS is dead while ignoring the fact that an RTS, Starcraft 2, is one of the most popular videogames right now.

3. Saying that TSR and GW has no parallels except for the C&D thing (and saying that GW is in fact doing the opposite of what TSR is doing), even though posters already pointed out all of the parallels.

4. Saying that skirmish wargames and 40k/WHFB games are vastly too different to be considered as GW's direct competition. On this one you just consider your anecdotal evidence and ignore everyone else's anecdotal evidence.

5. Saying that KoW rules sucked and internet reviews agree (or at least call it "meh"), while a simple google search will reveal that it is full of good and positive feedback.


That's 5.

Can we keep the thread centered on business decisions
and/or presentations? Creativity and knock-offs merit a separate discussion

Hit Like if you disagree.

 Morachi wrote:
Oh really? Well I better quote it then for visibility sake.

 heartserenade wrote:
1. Ignoring to factor in the metal to plastic change with regards to price "reductions". It is in fact, different products replacing each other so they are not the "same" products. Factoring this in will not support your argument that prices are in fact dropping.

I've addressed this issue multiple times. I don't compare prices of kits but rather of units-- thus you see prices compared based on options taken, units compared by per-model costs if the number of models in a unit change, etc. For this reason I am fine with comparing a plastic box to a metal box (or set of blisters) if the two kits produce the same unit.

 heartserenade wrote:
2. Saying that RTS is dead while ignoring the fact that an RTS, Starcraft 2, is one of the most popular videogames right now.

The fact that Starcraft 2 is popular doesn't mean RTS is a live genre. This is not a controversial opinion within the gaming community. In fact, Activision stated that even Starcraft 2 was not worth the effort to produce.

 heartserenade wrote:
3. Saying that TSR and GW has no parallels except for the C&D thing (and saying that GW is in fact doing the opposite of what TSR is doing), even though posters already pointed out all of the parallels.

So the fact that I disagreed with other people indicates "cherry picking?"

 heartserenade wrote:
4. Saying that skirmish wargames and 40k/WHFB games are vastly too different to be considered as GW's direct competition. On this one you just consider your anecdotal evidence and ignore everyone else's anecdotal evidence.

This argument was accepted by people here when it was used in order to attack GW. People only contested this point when I said it because they disagreed with my conclusion.

 heartserenade wrote:
5. Saying that KoW rules sucked and internet reviews agree (or at least call it "meh"), while a simple google search will reveal that it is full of good and positive feedback.

I didn't say that. I said that every review that I had seen was against it. Someone else posted the "meh" review, which I had not seen prior to posting here.

 heartserenade wrote:
That's 5.

And yet none of them apply. How odd.

Indeed malfred, attempting to - somehow it gets dragged into superfluous attempts at tangent hopping :/

Id like the point out that the only positive response towards GW i've seen have been for the following reasons;

1. The release schedule has been ramped up, meaning people's investments remain valid in the sense of miniature use (tabletop wargaming)

2. Model craftmanship, GW's studio still puts out some decent stuff, despite the corporate decisions that have us all face palming (well, the majority of us in this thread it seems).

I've just been looking at the discussion threads and see (at a glance, I may be wrong) no other threads discussing how upset the customers/retailers/distributors are with any other game manufacturer out there.

Whilst other companies have had their problems and learned from them (be they supply problems, manufacturing issues etc), GW have decided to chuck a hissy fit like a school yard brat coming in second place at a track event.

 Morachi wrote:
Indeed malfred, attempting to - somehow it gets dragged into superfluous attempts at tangent hopping :/

Id like the point out that the only positive response towards GW i've seen have been for the following reasons;

1. The release schedule has been ramped up, meaning people's investments remain valid in the sense of miniature use (tabletop wargaming)

2. Model craftmanship, GW's studio still puts out some decent stuff, despite the corporate decisions that have us all face palming (well, the majority of us in this thread it seems).

I've just been looking at the discussion threads and see (at a glance, I may be wrong) no other threads discussing how upset the customers/retailers/distributors are with any other game manufacturer out there.

Whilst other companies have had their problems and learned from them (be they supply problems, manufacturing issues etc), GW have decided to chuck a hissy fit like a school yard brat coming in second place at a track event.

The question you have to ask yourself is-- is GW different? Or is the community's response to GW different?

GW have been this way for as long as I can recall, however the community tolerated it to a point back when I started.

Mumblings were heard, but nothing as loud as the outrage that is now felt in the community. Looking at the Decade of Dickishness, there is a clear parallel drawn between how vocal the community is and how GW have reached new heights in negatively impacting the community through the decisions they make.

In effect, as GW's dickishness escalates, so to does the volume of negativity towards GW the community responds with.

I guess I'll just reply to Kingsley on PM then. Lost cause, but hey I've got nothing better to do.


On topic:

In effect, as GW's dickishness escalates, so to does the volume of negativity towards GW the community responds with.

This. Sure, even great companies will suffer some form of criticism, but that doesn't mean bad companies are good companies too because they also suffer some form of criticism.

And bad companies will have heaps of criticism piled on them compared to good companies.

 Morachi wrote:
GW have been this way for as long as I can recall, however the community tolerated it to a point back when I started.

Mumblings were heard, but nothing as loud as the outrage that is now felt in the community. Looking at the Decade of Dickishness, there is a clear parallel drawn between how vocal the community is and how GW have reached new heights in negatively impacting the community through the decisions they make.

In effect, as GW's dickishness escalates, so to does the volume of negativity towards GW the community responds with.

That's exactly my experience as well, yes you hear a lot more GW 'bashing' now but none of the threads on here are just 'waaaa, GWs prices are too high' they are all started when GW does something stupid.

Well I am going to go to the original topic that the OP posted at the start of this thread:

I think it is kind of bull how GW treats all of its fanbase and/or potential like they are inferiors and the internet as 'freeloaders" except their store front, and this presentation (if you can call it that from what I have read) shows me two things in my eyes (this is my opinion, so this may be subjective overall):

1. They are so isolated from what is going and want to ignore the fact there is competition slowly growing and catching up with them, and the recent moves and actions they have been doing leading up to now is a desperate, albeit poorly thought out, show that is very unprofessional and is not caught up with the current times at all.

-or-

2. Kirby is just trying to milk the IP's GW has for what it is worth before he decides to abandon the sinking ship that is Games Workshop with a nice, juicy, fat check worth a lot of money as he laughs along his merry way.

Which is a kind of a shame, since I like 40k and fantasy, and that is what mostly got me into Miniwargaming today! If GW does go under, I hope that someone can get their IP's and that, because since it is the thing that made the Miniwargaming scene more well-known today and can be a goldmine that can get fans of Warhammer and 40k that are disgruntled with GW back into it, if done right. But I think that is more than optimistic thinking in my part. :(

Speaking of GW rip-offs:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/LEGION_MKIII_BREACHER_SIEGE_SQUAD.html

Looks a lot like

http://media.thewarstore.com/media/PIP/ss_size2/PIP41023.jpg

and

http://media.thewarstore.com/media/PIP/ss_size2/PIP33100.jpg

Of course the GW/Forgeworld models are 2x as expensive.

Barfolomew wrote:
Speaking of GW rip-offs:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/LEGION_MKIII_BREACHER_SIEGE_SQUAD.html

Looks a lot like

http://media.thewarstore.com/media/PIP/ss_size2/PIP41023.jpg

and

http://media.thewarstore.com/media/PIP/ss_size2/PIP33100.jpg

Of course the GW/Forgeworld models are 2x as expensive.

I take issue with this example. Both the GW squad and the Highshields are more likely logical more maneuverable evolutions of the arbalest firing from behind a siege shield or archers firing from behind a mantlet. The Assault Kommandos are more derived from the Calsow Assault Detachment from WWI, which used heavy shields and armor to assault trenches.

Tell anyone to devise a heavily armored person with a gun and shield, and there will obviously be similarities in appearance.

 Morachi wrote:
I love you heartserenade - I owe you a beer. I raise my bourbon to you as I one handedly type this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kingsley wrote:

 Morachi wrote:
I'm saying if enough people make an observation on your conduct, then it holds weight.

Not when there are obvious perverse incentives at play.

 Morachi wrote:
As for your examples, even if I pointed them out, you would refute each the very same way you have the entire thread - that and the thought of going back over 11 pages tedious at best. I'll get back to this when I have motivation to do so, i'm presently attempting to enjoy my Friday night here.

Somehow I'm not surprised...

Nor am I at your attempts at dismissal.

GW's actions are perverse, not the observations this community hold with good reason. Please see below, take your pick, hell mix and match perversions until your heart's content;

The Decade of Dickishness

Note: The following does not include the regular price increments, frankly there are too many to list. I'm sure there are many more addages to this, but these are the standout cliff notes.

2003 -

Online Sales in North America blocked, restricted only to GW Online Sales via their webstore. Distribution of goods outside US prohibited.

2009 -

Games Workshop send correspondence to eBay, requesting restrictions be imposed on the resale of any GW produced merchandise. eBay effectively flip them off.

2011 -

UK Embargo, blocking sales of GW product to anywhere outside of the UK.

Finecast (Failcast) is introduced as a cost cutting measure to the company, albeit at a much higher price to the consumer. Due to the high amount of defects in Finecast product casting some major retailers temporarily stop stocking it (Wayland Games in particular).

Further to the price hike on resin models an additional price rise is brought in shortly after in line with their 6 month/yearly "inflation" costs.

2012-

GW stores introduce single staffer model. Stores now close during lunchtimes. Provision of paints/materials that were previously a hobby starter "value add" are now revoked.

Mark Wells departs as CEO under speculative circumstances, his position being absorbed into the existing Director role (Tom "BIG CASH!" Kirby).

2013 -

Space Marine trademark. An Independent author a book removed from Amazon due to a claim by GW that they own the term "Space Marine". Games Workshop cops a bashing and it is cited that there are no grounds for such a long standing term to be considered "owned".

Social Media withdrawal. Games Workshop in the wake of the trademark backlash remove their HQ England and North American Facebook pages in a bid to silence the anger from fans and authors alike. GW cite that pushing customers to "local" pages is their reasoning for this - really this is a means to decentralising the backlash so customers have no central point of information on the subject. Comments are (and have been) disabled on YouTube to cripple any further negative response from being seen publicly.

Direct only rulebook announced which annoys many retailers. Not being able to sell the rulebook to the miniatures they stock is the reasoning behind this.

New trade guidelines for distributors and retailers. Canada now unable to partake in online sales at a retail level. Stores close as a result. Direct only ordering limits (reduced to 10% in some cases) imposed on distributors and retailers, reducing profit and forcing sales towards GW Online. Distribution and retail of goods outside North America & Canada now prohibited.

Bitz sales are also prohibited at risk of the affiliated account being cut off from supply.

Digital book price rise. Books on iTunes are raised to that of hardback prices.

GAMA and other Retailer events. GW basically flip everyone the bird, bringing in a single blank demo table. Their "paint workshop" was nothing more than a "Here's a space marine and five paints - have at it"... and a single rep repeating the same line in response to angered retailers "There's nothing I can do, but i'll pass on your concerns". No comments, no feedback, just stone walling.

Stock delayed to retailers, whilst plenty is available online via GW Direct. This is seen as a means to boost online sales through GW direct web/mail order channels, whilst reducing profit loss normally occurring by sales through retail/distribution channels.

Rabble rabble this is nothing, you guys are just being whiners! All hail GW.

I'd also add their moronic secrecy policy, hardcover codices destroying Black Library, and White Dwarf turning to shitbuckets.

 Harriticus wrote:
Rabble rabble this is nothing, you guys are just being whiners! All hail GW.

I'd also add their moronic secrecy policy, hardcover codices destroying Black Library, and White Dwarf turning to shitbuckets.

The so-called "decade of dickishness" is just a dumb phrase. First off, it seems like the real complaints started in 2009 and they just added the online sales thing in 2003 to make it seem like this had been going on forever. Second, practically any organization will look bad if you focus entirely on things that you don't like. You could just as well make a similar list with everything GW has done well across whatever period.

 Kingsley wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
Rabble rabble this is nothing, you guys are just being whiners! All hail GW.

I'd also add their moronic secrecy policy, hardcover codices destroying Black Library, and White Dwarf turning to shitbuckets.

The so-called "decade of dickishness" is just a dumb phrase. First off, it seems like the real complaints started in 2009 and they just added the online sales thing in 2003 to make it seem like this had been going on forever. Second, practically any organization will look bad if you focus entirely on things that you don't like. You could just as well make a similar list with everything GW has done well across whatever period.

Go for it.

They've held troop costs roughly equal to inflation since the 2004 price increase, but that's at best neutral.

Bringing out Space Hulk was pretty awesome but balanced by it being limited edition.

If they keep putting out codices at the rate they've been since 6th ed came out, they'll finally have an edition where everyone has an up to date codex AND there may even be a couple years to enjoy the game before it gets all mucked up aga

Entering into digital distribution is a nice start, but the restriction to the iOS world really limits this being 'done well'.

 Lansirill wrote:

Go for it.

They've held troop costs roughly equal to inflation since the 2004 price increase, but that's at best neutral.

Bringing out Space Hulk was pretty awesome but balanced by it being limited edition.

If they keep putting out codices at the rate they've been since 6th ed came out, they'll finally have an edition where everyone has an up to date codex AND there may even be a couple years to enjoy the game before it gets all mucked up aga

Entering into digital distribution is a nice start, but the restriction to the iOS world really limits this being 'done well'.

Quality of plastic sculpts i feel went up alot of the newer models are muuuuch easier to build and a lot of customizable parts make for happy converters.

that's all i got :/

Lansirill wrote:

They've held troop costs roughly equal to inflation since the 2004 price increase, but that's at best neutral.

If you're Space Marines or Necrons perhaps. Certainly not if you play say, Guard or Sisters.

 Kingsley wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
Rabble rabble this is nothing, you guys are just being whiners! All hail GW.

I'd also add their moronic secrecy policy, hardcover codices destroying Black Library, and White Dwarf turning to shitbuckets.

The so-called "decade of dickishness" is just a dumb phrase. First off, it seems like the real complaints started in 2009 and they just added the online sales thing in 2003 to make it seem like this had been going on forever. Second, practically any organization will look bad if you focus entirely on things that you don't like. You could just as well make a similar list with everything GW has done well across whatever period.

I'm sorry but that is the biggest load I've ever heard. You can't justify bad behavior because you also do good things. It doesn't work that way.

 Vaktathi wrote:

Lansirill wrote:

They've held troop costs roughly equal to inflation since the 2004 price increase, but that's at best neutral.

If you're Space Marines or Necrons perhaps. Certainly not if you play say, Guard or Sisters.

For Troops, Guard, Sisters, and Tyranids went up. Dæmons, Dark Eldar, Necrons, Grey Knights, and in practice Orks went down. Everyone else stayed more or less the same or went up or down depending on options.

As for good things that GW has done in the last short period, they're pretty easy to find:

-Vast, constant improvement in sprue design, density of parts on a sprue, and overall fit. This in turn enables kits to come with far more bitz and customization options. Compare the new Pathfinders to the Fire Warriors, for instance. Or compare 3rd edition Tactical Marines to 4th edition Tactical Marines to Devastators to the Stormtalon to get a more detailed view of how things have shifted over time.

-Release of 5th and 6th edition, IMO the best editions of 40k yet.

-Rules put into White Dwarf again (this is something the community has been requesting for years)

-Accelerated release schedule updating people's armies to the new edition at a greatly increased pace

-Forge World putting out Horus Heresy books and units (again something that has been requested for years)

-Excellent video game tie-ins

-Re-release of Space Hulk

-Availability of digital Codexes

-Increased pace of FAQ/errata release resolving many important questions

-Better-written books limiting the need for FAQ/errata in the first place (quote from Yakface on a thread collecting questions about the new Tau: "I guess this codex is pretty darn well written because it seems as though the vast majority of the questions being submitted are simply:

The rules are crystal clear, but is that REALLY what you mean by those rules?

Honestly, unless its something completely egregious that seems like it *must* be a loophole then it should probably be answered in a FAQ, but most of these things are just...well, the rules!")


I could go on and on here, that's just off the top of my head. Now is that an accurate description of GW's track record over the last short while? No, it obviously isn't-- it's very one-sided! But no more one-sided than the "decade of dickishness" being claimed by others. You have to take the good with the bad and form a balanced perspective, not just stockpile cheers or jeers.

I bet if GW had much lower prices a lot of these other complaints would go away. The price vs quality issue is the only issue that effects whether or not I buy something from GW and I bet it is the same for the majority of past and present GW customers. At this time I only buy the absolute bare minnimum of GW product to keep my hobby going because I just think the price to quality ratio is over the moon in a bad way.

A number of things that people have complained about in this thread and others strike me as coming from someone that is just not being realistic. Other things I find to be rather nonconsequential.

From the decade of dickishness list

1. GW going to one man stores and not supplying free paints and closing at lunch time. So what, if they need to cut costs then reducing the number of employees is the first step companies always take. No longer giving out free supplies? LOL buy your own stuff, I dont know any other businesses that routinely give out free supplies. Why is closing for lunch considered to be "dickishness". Just because the internet is open 24/7 doesnt mean everything else needs to be. That someone would complain about a store being closed at lunch time just shows a desperate attempt at reaching for straws.

2. Barring of online sales. This isnt being dickish this is just playing hardball in a hardball world. GW doesnt owe anyone adherence to a particular model of how they sell and distribute their products. They are making the stuff so they have every right to sell it as they please. As long as they are not breaking any laws I really could not be bothered to care about it. You may not like their policy and it may not seem fair, but they still have every right to set their own policy and succeed or fail on its merits.

3. Social Media withdrawal. LOL, really who gives a fig. Social media is just used as an advertising tool by companies that bother with it. Zero impact on gamers because GW took its ball and went home.

4. Finecast debacle. This is purely an issue of price related to quality. The QC issues are incompetence not dickishness and I doubt that GW planned for it to be a fiasco. From a business perspective if GW can pry a huge amount of money from its customers for a resin figure, you can hardly blame them for trying. The proper response to this is to just not buy any finecast products, I have numerous fantasy and 40k armies and have purchased ZERO finecast models.

The sad thing is that enough people have bought finecast models to send the signal to GW that their pricing and QC is good enough for customers.

5. Trade Show. GW embarassed themselves at a trade show. So what? Its not like anyone going to the show had an expectation that GW was going to suddenly reverse policy and tell them about forthcoming products. Incompetence, yes, purposeful screwing around people, not likely.

Elsewhere

Closing GW forums: Those forums were crap, good riddance, there are plenty of forums around.

White Dwarf turned into GAK: So dont buy it. The audience is obviously 12 year olds so if you pay $10 for a crappy magazine its on you. The first issue of WD I bought on the newstand was number 100 and I have a huge collection that I stopped adding to a few years ago. The fact that it is crap doesnt do anything bad to the hobby because there are more good articles on the internet than ever found their way into the WD. The White Dwarf is an anachronism, its a zombie, its long dead but hasnt realized it yet.

Tournament Support: It would be nice if GW still supported tournaments, but they dont and where there is demand a supply is usually found. There are plenty of tournaments anywhere the hobby has a good population of players.