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 jy2 wrote:
Can you really use Moral Support to re-roll successful hits/wounds/saves?

Absolutely. You're allowed to re-roll any roll.

Bonus Deathmatch #6 - Rematch - Paladinstar Grey Knights vs Pinkstar Daemons


Completed on p. 10.

Somehow I feel assaulting the Portaglyph was your undoing...

rigeld2 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Can you really use Moral Support to re-roll successful hits/wounds/saves?

Absolutely. You're allowed to re-roll any roll.

Thanks!

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Somehow I feel assaulting the Portaglyph was your undoing...

I did the math mentally. At most, shooting the horrors would have just netted me perhaps 12-14 horror kills or so. Then next turn, Portaglyph would have potentially generated more troops (whom a conjuration Herald with Prescience could have joined anyways) and then the paladins would have gotten charged by the LoC anyways.

At least by killing the Portaglyph, you prevent more troops from coming out of the portal and you get closer to the horrors with essentially a "free" assault move.

It's still 2 evils and hard to say which is the lesser. However, one thing I do know is that getting assaulted by a re-rollable 2++ S8 LoC was going to suck big time no matter what the pallies did.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

MarkyMark wrote:
Well done with your game Jy2, we have simular experince and tastes in building our daemon armies, and I do agree when daemons get good dice they are very good, heck on Wednesday I had two daemon princes, non iron armed on the ground survive 3 doom scythes death rays (thats two tests each) thanks to one having 3++ from grimoire and both having re rolling invul's. Turn 4 of that game he had 3 flyers on the board vector struck life leeched and FF'ed all 3 and the last one was down to 1 hull point saved both FF shots and I failed to pen with the life leech shots. Lost 2 heralds and 20 horrors but ended the game with daemon princes and lord of change with no wounds

I do and would still run the 2++ on my 20 horror squad with 2 heralds, why? I do have very weak scoring in my list so I need that solid scoring unit

I prefer to give the 2++ to my fast threats, namely, either my LoC or my 20 seekers. Most people don't really and can't really finish off the pinkstar on Turn 1 (if you deploy them defensively, which I usually do when I am going 2nd). To them, the pinkstar isn't a high priority target compared to the other fast units in the army. I will buff up the Pinkstar if I think they are truly in danger of getting killed. However, that's usually after my opponent has killed my LoC, seekers and probably soulgrinders as well.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


I have 4 BR's in the pipeline. Which would you like to see first?


Pinkstar vs Farsight Tau Rematch

Pinkstar vs Nob Biker Orks

Taudar Wraithstar vs Paladinstar

Game #7 Finale - Seer Council vs Farsight Tau Rematch


Let me know.



Then next week I have a treat for you all. It's a 2K battle between my Pinkstar Daemons vs Janthkin's Slaanesh Daemons + CSM alliance.

 jy2 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Can you really use Moral Support to re-roll successful hits/wounds/saves?

Absolutely. You're allowed to re-roll any roll.

Thanks!

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Somehow I feel assaulting the Portaglyph was your undoing...

I did the math mentally. At most, shooting the horrors would have just netted me perhaps 12-14 horror kills or so. Then next turn, Portaglyph would have potentially generated more troops (whom a conjuration Herald with Prescience could have joined anyways) and then the paladins would have gotten charged by the LoC anyways.

At least by killing the Portaglyph, you prevent more troops from coming out of the portal and you get closer to the horrors with essentially a "free" assault move.

It's still 2 evils and hard to say which is the lesser. However, one thing I do know is that getting assaulted by a re-rollable 2++ S8 LoC was going to suck big time no matter what the pallies did.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

MarkyMark wrote:
Well done with your game Jy2, we have simular experince and tastes in building our daemon armies, and I do agree when daemons get good dice they are very good, heck on Wednesday I had two daemon princes, non iron armed on the ground survive 3 doom scythes death rays (thats two tests each) thanks to one having 3++ from grimoire and both having re rolling invul's. Turn 4 of that game he had 3 flyers on the board vector struck life leeched and FF'ed all 3 and the last one was down to 1 hull point saved both FF shots and I failed to pen with the life leech shots. Lost 2 heralds and 20 horrors but ended the game with daemon princes and lord of change with no wounds

I do and would still run the 2++ on my 20 horror squad with 2 heralds, why? I do have very weak scoring in my list so I need that solid scoring unit

I prefer to give the 2++ to my fast threats, namely, either my LoC or my 20 seekers. Most people don't really and can't really finish off the pinkstar on Turn 1 (if you deploy them defensively, which I usually do when I am going 2nd). To them, the pinkstar isn't a high priority target compared to the other fast units in the army. I will buff up the Pinkstar if I think they are truly in danger of getting killed. However, that's usually after my opponent has killed my LoC, seekers and probably soulgrinders as well.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


I have 4 BR's in the pipeline. Which would you like to see first?


Pinkstar vs Farsight Tau Rematch

Pinkstar vs Nob Biker Orks

Taudar Wraithstar vs Paladinstar

Game #7 Finale - Seer Council vs Farsight Tau Rematch


Let me know.



Then next week I have a treat for you all. It's a 2K battle between my Pinkstar Daemons vs Janthkin's Slaanesh Daemons + CSM alliance.

I play troop weak with my FMC list, relying on the portalglyph to get me free troops and once opponents know what the pink star can do they do usually try to take them out.

I played a vassal game last night (First time!) and had 2 heralds lvl2 with 20 horrors, looked at a 6 wraith squad with d lord, prescision shot the whip coils out then the d lord tanked 3 shots, two ones in there (didnt get a chance to mention they have misfortune on them!) then 18 odd wounds on the wraiths left saved 12 at first then misfortune re roll killed the rest off!. Opponent was shell shocked

 jy2 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Can you really use Moral Support to re-roll successful hits/wounds/saves?

Absolutely. You're allowed to re-roll any roll.

Thanks!

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Somehow I feel assaulting the Portaglyph was your undoing...

I did the math mentally. At most, shooting the horrors would have just netted me perhaps 12-14 horror kills or so. Then next turn, Portaglyph would have potentially generated more troops (whom a conjuration Herald with Prescience could have joined anyways) and then the paladins would have gotten charged by the LoC anyways.

At least by killing the Portaglyph, you prevent more troops from coming out of the portal and you get closer to the horrors with essentially a "free" assault move.

It's still 2 evils and hard to say which is the lesser. However, one thing I do know is that getting assaulted by a re-rollable 2++ S8 LoC was going to suck big time no matter what the pallies did.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

MarkyMark wrote:
Well done with your game Jy2, we have simular experince and tastes in building our daemon armies, and I do agree when daemons get good dice they are very good, heck on Wednesday I had two daemon princes, non iron armed on the ground survive 3 doom scythes death rays (thats two tests each) thanks to one having 3++ from grimoire and both having re rolling invul's. Turn 4 of that game he had 3 flyers on the board vector struck life leeched and FF'ed all 3 and the last one was down to 1 hull point saved both FF shots and I failed to pen with the life leech shots. Lost 2 heralds and 20 horrors but ended the game with daemon princes and lord of change with no wounds

I do and would still run the 2++ on my 20 horror squad with 2 heralds, why? I do have very weak scoring in my list so I need that solid scoring unit

I prefer to give the 2++ to my fast threats, namely, either my LoC or my 20 seekers. Most people don't really and can't really finish off the pinkstar on Turn 1 (if you deploy them defensively, which I usually do when I am going 2nd). To them, the pinkstar isn't a high priority target compared to the other fast units in the army. I will buff up the Pinkstar if I think they are truly in danger of getting killed. However, that's usually after my opponent has killed my LoC, seekers and probably soulgrinders as well.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


I have 4 BR's in the pipeline. Which would you like to see first?


Pinkstar vs Farsight Tau Rematch

Pinkstar vs Nob Biker Orks

Taudar Wraithstar vs Paladinstar

Game #7 Finale - Seer Council vs Farsight Tau Rematch


Let me know.



Then next week I have a treat for you all. It's a 2K battle between my Pinkstar Daemons vs Janthkin's Slaanesh Daemons + CSM alliance.

finale!!!!!!!

LOL
Deamon "hunters"?
Must be the lamest name given any army/unit in the entire game.

I vote tau vs eldar finale!

However in 2 weeks the jetseer council will be a totally different animal so I propose you do a re-rematch 2 weeks after the new eldar book releases.

Just quickly ... what is the best possible save an LoC can get and which psychic powers are being used ? I'm assumming you were casting forewarning on your Lord of change, using the Grimoire on your Lord of Change. Now you have a flying monstrous creature with a 2+ invulnerable save, and he rerolls his 1 because he is Tzeentch. Am I correct?

MarkyMark wrote:
I play troop weak with my FMC list, relying on the portalglyph to get me free troops and once opponents know what the pink star can do they do usually try to take them out.

I played a vassal game last night (First time!) and had 2 heralds lvl2 with 20 horrors, looked at a 6 wraith squad with d lord, prescision shot the whip coils out then the d lord tanked 3 shots, two ones in there (didnt get a chance to mention they have misfortune on them!) then 18 odd wounds on the wraiths left saved 12 at first then misfortune re roll killed the rest off!. Opponent was shell shocked

Next week, I'm going to try to bring a slightly more balanced Pinkstar list to battle (with just 3 Heralds).


LoC - Lvl 3, 2x Greater, 1x Lesser
3x Lvl Tzeentch Heralds - Grimoire, Portaglyph, Conjuration (all on different Heralds)

20x Horrors
12x Horrors
11x Horrors

8x Screamers of Tzeentch
12x Seekers of Slaanesh

2x Slaanesh Grinders w/Torrent
1x Tzeentch Grinder w/Phlegm

2K


I'm considering giving 1 of the Heralds a disc and putting him with the Screamers.

Theorius wrote:

finale!!!!!!!

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I vote tau vs eldar finale!

However in 2 weeks the jetseer council will be a totally different animal so I propose you do a re-rematch 2 weeks after the new eldar book releases.

I think I can actually fit in 2 reports in 1 day!

First will be the Taudar Wraithstar vs Paladinstar. And then tonight, the finale.

As for the new seer council, we shall see. Honestly, I don't think they will be as good as they are now.

 Pyriel- wrote:
LOL
Deamon "hunters"?
Must be the lamest name given any army/unit in the entire game.

They might not be able to compete against daemons deathstar-wise, but army-wise I think they can still be evenly matched. However, the unit to probably bring would be psyflemans as they give the knights some psychic protection and can insta-gib many of the daemonic units (as well as deal with soulgrinders). Moreover, they are a good counter-assault unit as they can lock a lot of daemons units in assault - seekers, flesh hounds, bloodcrushers, etc. I think daemons will invigorate the "comeback" of the psyflemans.

 felixcat wrote:
Just quickly ... what is the best possible save an LoC can get and which psychic powers are being used ?

2++ Re-rollable.

Forewarning for 4++. Grimoire to make it 2++. Then Tzeentch re-roll all rolls of 's on saves.

However, daemons been fortunate to get Precognition on the LoC almost every single game!

Interesting list JY2 ... almost identical to the one i want to test at 1750


Lord of Change - Lvl 3, 2x Greater Gifts, 1x Lesser Gift - 305

Herald - Tzeentch, Lvl 3, Loci of Conjuration, Exalted Gift (Grimoire of True Names) - 150
Herald - Tzeentch, Lvl 3, Loci of Conjuration - 120
Herald - Tzeentch, Lvl 3, Loci of Conjuration - 120

17x Pink Horrors - 153
17x Pink Horrors - 153
17x Pink Horrors - 153

20x Seekers, Heartseeker, Lesser Gift - 255

Soulgrinder of Slaanesh - Baleful Torrent - 170
Soulgrinder of Slaanesh - Baleful Torrent - 170

At 2000 I'm thinking to add a Tzeentch FMC. Ypou know you read a lot of varying opinions on the net. I hear horrors are unremarkable in most ways (shooting is not all that reliable), LoC is easily grounded and taken out of the game, grinders are not as good as FMCs and Slaanesh are just poor ... etc., etc. Now, not playing daemons as a standalone list I need to test them out after reading all the batreps. I'm suspicious they may indeed be too random. And having to roll each game so many times, sigh.


---- edited spelling/grammar ---

Bonus Deathmatch #7 - Paladinstar Grey Knights vs Taudar Wraith Bomb


Completed on p. 10.


Coming up next....the Finale, Game #7 Rematch between Tau and the Seer Council for the Championship!

 felixcat wrote:
Interesting list JY2 ... almost identical to the one i want to test at 1750


Lord of Change - Lvl 3, 2x Greater Gifts, 1x Lesser Gift - 305

Herald - Tzeentch, Lvl 3, Loci of Conjuration, Exalted Gift (Grimoire of True Names) - 150
Herald - Tzeentch, Lvl 3, Loci of Conjuration - 120
Herald - Tzeentch, Lvl 3, Loci of Conjuration - 120

17x Pink Horrors - 153
17x Pink Horrors - 153
17x Pink Horrors - 153

20x Seekers, Heartseeker, Lesser Gift - 255

Soulgrinder of Slaanesh - Baleful Torrent - 170
Soulgrinder of Slaanesh - Baleful Torrent - 170

At 2000 I'm thinking to add a Tzeentch FMC. Ypou know you read a lot of varying opinions on the net. I hear horrors are unremarkable in most ways (shooting is not all that reliable), LoC is easily grounded and taken out of the game, grinders are not as good as FMCs and Slaanesh are just poor ... etc., etc. Now, not playing daemons as a standalone list I need to test them out after reading all the batreps. I'm suspicious they may indeed be too random. And having to roll each game so many times, sigh.


---- edited spelling/grammar ---

Yeah, that is very close to what I run at 1750 now, though honestly, I've only ran the Pinkstar in an actual game only once. In that game I had 4 Heralds and 2x20 horrors, but I like your 3 Heralds and 3x17 horrors better. I think your list is more balanced.

You should, however, really consider getting the Portaglyph. Nothing beats FREE troops and each pink horror troop unit you spawn generates another 2D6 Flickering Fire shots for your army. I can't stress enough how important the Portaglyph is. Drop some seekers and horrors if you have to, but get that piece of wargear into your army.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jy2 wrote:
Bonus Deathmatch #7 - Paladinstar Grey Knights vs Taudar Wraith Bomb


Completed on p. 10.


Coming up next....the Finale, Game #7 Rematch between Tau and the Seer Council for the Championship!

2++ rerollable can suck it!!!!!!


i dont want eldar nerfed in their new codex, but that spell can go, then they can fix the daemons version.


oh....GO TAU!!!

I don't think Coteaz can cast Hammerhand.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
I don't think Coteaz can cast Hammerhand.

Inquisitor Coteaz -

Psychic Powers: Dark Excommunication, Sanctuary, Hammerhand.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Pyriel- wrote:
LOL
Deamon "hunters"?
Must be the lamest name given any army/unit in the entire game.

It's true. They aren't really true daemon hunters any more. At least mechanically. Jy2 is right though. With all the psychic powers being flung around you really need that Reinforced Aegis. I also think you need at least one dreadknight to try and combat the MCs.

The GK FAQ states he loses HH if he opts to take two powers from the BRB.

Game #7 - Rematch - Farsight-Bomb Tau vs Seer Council Deldar


Will be posted on p. 14.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
The GK FAQ states he loses HH if he opts to take two powers from the BRB.

You're right. I missed that. Thanks.

Theorius wrote:

2++ rerollable can suck it!!!!!!


i dont want eldar nerfed in their new codex, but that spell can go, then they can fix the daemons version.


oh....GO TAU!!!

Yeah, 2++ re-rollable is pretty stupid. Even I've got to admit that. It's probably one of the main things that keeps daemons competitive even in spite of all the randomness in the army.

If eldar keeps Fortune, it won't be fixed because they can still take Invisbility. In order to fix it for eldar, they're probably going to have to change Fortune or drop it entirely.

As for daemons, I don't see it getting "fixed" anytime soon, at least not until the next codex release.

Wow that got close in the end, I think a person over here plays a wraithguard heavy army, and has a unit with farseer and led by the baron for re-rollable 2++ with T6 majority its hard to crack.

Not to familiar on eldar, how do they get a 2+ cover save?

 tuiman wrote:
Wow that got close in the end, I think a person over here plays a wraithguard heavy army, and has a unit with farseer and led by the baron for re-rollable 2++ with T6 majority its hard to crack.

Not to familiar on eldar, how do they get a 2+ cover save?

Conceal warlock gives a 5+ cover save. Invisibility improves that with Stealth/Shrouded.

They might not be able to compete against daemons deathstar-wise, but army-wise I think they can still be evenly matched. However, the unit to probably bring would be psyflemans as they give the knights some psychic protection and can insta-gib many of the daemonic units (as well as deal with soulgrinders). Moreover, they are a good counter-assault unit as they can lock a lot of daemons units in assault - seekers, flesh hounds, bloodcrushers, etc. I think daemons will invigorate the "comeback" of the psyflemans.

Hmm, I wasnt aware that psyflemens were even gone.

Maybe might be worth throwing in a dark excommunication somewhere in the army as well.


Anyway, I am if the opinion that the palistar used in the batreps really isnt the strongest possible but that´s me. I still enjoy the batreps.

 Shandara wrote:

 tuiman wrote:
Wow that got close in the end, I think a person over here plays a wraithguard heavy army, and has a unit with farseer and led by the baron for re-rollable 2++ with T6 majority its hard to crack.

Not to familiar on eldar, how do they get a 2+ cover save?

Conceal warlock gives a 5+ cover save. Invisibility improves that with Stealth/Shrouded.

Yea the list is actually a viable deathstar and I think paladins are its toughest match-up of the ones listed. Imo I wouldn't have separated the hq's there towards the end. It would allowed for a hit and run and a tabling as well as some extra overwatch. That 2+ re-rollable is silly and one of the best ways to counter it... misfortune has to go off on 3d6 with 12+ and double 's being perils. The pinkstar daemons would seriously struggle against this list. Actually Tau might give them trouble I suppose as they have better range.

 Shandara wrote:

 tuiman wrote:
Wow that got close in the end, I think a person over here plays a wraithguard heavy army, and has a unit with farseer and led by the baron for re-rollable 2++ with T6 majority its hard to crack.

Not to familiar on eldar, how do they get a 2+ cover save?

Conceal warlock gives a 5+ cover save. Invisibility improves that with Stealth/Shrouded.

Actually, they don't need Invisibility. Shadowsun gives the unit Stealth/Shrouded. Eldrad has to keep his codex powers for Fortune.

 Pyriel- wrote:

They might not be able to compete against daemons deathstar-wise, but army-wise I think they can still be evenly matched. However, the unit to probably bring would be psyflemans as they give the knights some psychic protection and can insta-gib many of the daemonic units (as well as deal with soulgrinders). Moreover, they are a good counter-assault unit as they can lock a lot of daemons units in assault - seekers, flesh hounds, bloodcrushers, etc. I think daemons will invigorate the "comeback" of the psyflemans.

Hmm, I wasnt aware that psyflemens were even gone.

Maybe might be worth throwing in a dark excommunication somewhere in the army as well.


Anyway, I am if the opinion that the palistar used in the batreps really isnt the strongest possible but that´s me. I still enjoy the batreps.

They've been relegated to 2nd fiddle behind the dreadknight in 6E grey knights. With the shift in meta to more infantry-based armies and also the huge improvement to the dreadknight in 6E, psyflemans are no longer the "must-take" that they used to be in 5th Ed. Nowadays, I see much more dreadknights in GK armies than I do psyflemans, which is a shame really. I still really like the GK dreadnoughts.

Draigo would have definitely done better against this battle due to his ability to tank AP 1/2 shots. Though against the other deathstars, I prefer the shooting and psychic buffs of the GKGM + Coteaz.

 Tomb King wrote:

Yea the list is actually a viable deathstar and I think paladins are its toughest match-up of the ones listed. Imo I wouldn't have separated the hq's there towards the end. It would allowed for a hit and run and a tabling as well as some extra overwatch. That 2+ re-rollable is silly and one of the best ways to counter it... misfortune has to go off on 3d6 with 12+ and double 's being perils. The pinkstar daemons would seriously struggle against this list. Actually Tau might give them trouble I suppose as they have better range.

Ah.....you're in luck. Just finished a battle between the "mighty" Wraith Bomb against the Pinkstar. But that battle's going to have to wait until after the Finale.

How do daemons get the 2++ rerollable save?

 Dozer Blades wrote:
How do daemons get the 2++ rerollable save?

Someone casts forewarning on daemons of Tzeench, and they get buffed by the Grimlore. They get the 4+ from forewarning buffed by 2 from the grimlore to a 2+, and since they re-roll ones, they now have a 2+ re-rollable.

Thanks !

Draigo would have definitely done better against this battle due to his ability to tank AP 1/2 shots. Though against the other deathstars, I prefer the shooting and psychic buffs of the GKGM + Coteaz.

I have tried GK deathstars in many, many games and my opinion is that a generally nothing beats a librarian and coteaz.

I too like the dreadknight, to bad the upgrades are to expensive to ever be used.

Is game 7 Hamminators vs Draigoless Draigowing? that would be a good matchup.

Do you think overall that daemons can beat a tau-bomb list at 1750+

This multi part question is for jy2 but anyone else please free to answer...

It seems like daemons are now tending to be even more random. That is what I've observed reading lots of Batreps. At a GT it just seems like there is a good chance they'll have at least one proverbial bad dice game.

So first do you think the new daemons (pure) can win a big competitive event like NOVA?

Second what do you do to minimize the randomness?

Finally do you think they would be a better choice as an ally? That's what I am currently thinking.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
This multi part question is for jy2 but anyone else please free to answer...

It seems like daemons are now tending to be even more random. That is what I've observed reading lots of Batreps. At a GT it just seems like there is a good chance they'll have at least one proverbial bad dice game.

So first do you think the new daemons (pure) can win a big competitive event like NOVA?

Second what do you do to minimize the randomness?

Finally do you think they would be a better choice as an ally? That's what I am currently thinking.

I think Fateweaver offsets the randomnness well, and he turns the Warp Storm into a weapon. Nearly every result you get is going to be bad for your opponent. Plus he puts your chance at successfully executing the Grimoire at over 85% and is invaluable for passing grounding tests. Think about how many games come down to one "must roll" Well, with FW you can control that "must roll" every player turn. It's huge. Plus, he's not exactly bad at shooting or buffing, and in a pinch can be an excellent tarpit (he is immortal with the Grimoire) I've had FW used against me to great effect, and he will definitely be in my Demons "travel" list.

As an allie you lose the Warp Storm, which is good and bad. I know playing against Demons with FW, it usually hurts me far more than it does the Demon.