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I'm hopeful we'll see some "August/September" Space Hulk releases in the coming years. Like a BFG boxed set with the rules, counters, and Imperial and Chaos or Imperial and Eldar ships.

Not likely, but I can hope!

GBL wrote:
Step 1. Stop supporting specialist games.
Step 2. Raise the prices on specialist games.
Step 3. Allow this massive hole in the market to be filled by other companies.
Step 4. Phase out specialist games.

Genius. I cant see a single flaw in GW's business plan. Assuming their plan is to ultimately phase out GW.

Please tell me you know how to read a financial statement before you posted this drivel?

You might want to look at their financial statements and then you'd realise they actually make a NPAT (granted, I didn't check their notes so this is hearsay until we determine why) in the Australian market for their retail sector for the first time I've ever seen from them in 2012.

Shaozun wrote:

GBL wrote:
Step 1. Stop supporting specialist games.
Step 2. Raise the prices on specialist games.
Step 3. Allow this massive hole in the market to be filled by other companies.
Step 4. Phase out specialist games.

Genius. I cant see a single flaw in GW's business plan. Assuming their plan is to ultimately phase out GW.

Please tell me you know how to read a financial statement before you posted this drivel?

You might want to look at their financial statements and then you'd realise they actually make a NPAT (granted, I didn't check their notes so this is hearsay until we determine why) in the Australian market for their retail sector for the first time I've ever seen from them in 2012.

I'm not sure if you are trying to confirm or deny that GW have a flawed business plan.

I think he's trying to say that GW is turning a profit (despite almost no growth in revenue). Probably due to price rises and the reducing of hobby centers.

Yeah, I'm not really sure how "They finally turned a profit for a year!" translates to "they have a good business plan", hence why I'm confused. They are, after all, a market leader and have been since the early to mid 90s or longer in Australia. Not being able to turn a profit despite being a market leader doesn't scream "business prowess" to me.

 master of ordinance wrote:
They.... are....... seriously....... DOING THIS TO US!!!

WTF is wrong with GW, first they try to make us pay more for crappy cartoony sculpts then they get rid of the cool stuff we like but they dont.

this calls for an emergency panic buying spree-i still have to finish my early imperial/Chaos fleet and my IG Epic with Titan support and my Adeptus Titanicus force and..........

Why GW, why

You don't approve of GW's actions, so you're going to give them lots of money?

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Byte wrote:
*Etrade baby shocked face*

Are they supposed to carry everything forever?

Absolutely not.

They could have given us a couple of months warning though... If they had any means left to open communications with their customers...

This.

I have not jumped to specialist section early enough. I was planning to complete my Epic scale Imperial Guard with some Valkyries. Gone they are, on GW or FW.
This gets me mad.

 Elemental wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
They.... are....... seriously....... DOING THIS TO US!!!

WTF is wrong with GW, first they try to make us pay more for crappy cartoony sculpts then they get rid of the cool stuff we like but they dont.

this calls for an emergency panic buying spree-i still have to finish my early imperial/Chaos fleet and my IG Epic with Titan support and my Adeptus Titanicus force and..........

Why GW, why

You don't approve of GW's actions, so you're going to give them lots of money?

This is why people end up hating GW. Instead of trying to maintain customers by making them happy, they do something like this and gamers have to go "oh crap, I need to buy a ton of stuff to complete my collection before they disappear" because they already have money invested and then end up angry at GW and possibly leaving them after that. It's a great business plan to prop up sales temporarily and destroy them in the long term.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ravajaxe wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Byte wrote:
*Etrade baby shocked face*

Are they supposed to carry everything forever?

Absolutely not.

They could have given us a couple of months warning though... If they had any means left to open communications with their customers...

This.

I have not jumped to specialist section early enough. I was planning to complete my Epic scale Imperial Guard with some Valkyries. Gone they are, on GW or FW.
This gets me mad.

Yes, the Valkyries and Aquilas were pulled from the site before I first read this thread and had a chance to check their site.

They COULD have given warning and taken the opportunity to make some extra cash while people fill out their collections in less time than they had planned, instead they just stop production, make a quick buck and piss off consumers.

There is some hope for the Admech Light Cruiser, Chaos Battleships, Chaos Grandcruiser, and Rogue Trader Cruiser as they haven't been removed from the website even being out of stock. A lot of the other out of stock items have been removed from the sight completely.

We'll see....

Well, I've just gone for a Haven Spire and some Eldar transports - stuff that will be hard to get hold of in future. The rest will have to wait till the end of the month if there are any left...

 Hulksmash wrote:
There is some hope for the Admech Light Cruiser, Chaos Battleships, Chaos Grandcruiser, and Rogue Trader Cruiser as they haven't been removed from the website even being out of stock. A lot of the other out of stock items have been removed from the sight completely.

We'll see....

They just haven't got around to it, so don't keep your hopes up. AdMech light cruiser's still available on European website btw.

I'd have really needed a Repulsive for my Reserve fleet, but damn. Oh well, I bought some other stuff.

If anyone from the euro store wants to grab 4 of them for me pm me and we'll figure it out

I have worked for GW in the past, have an accounting degree,and have run one of their hobby stores, and still could not give you an idea of a cohesive business plan coming from out of Memphis or the UK. I for one think the specialist games were a good idea and not following up on them was a poor plan (still like my Dreadfleet) but GW will do as they always have and muddle along. I don't look at anything I buy as suporting them because if I want something I"ll acquire it otherwise it can sit on the shelf.

Shaozun wrote:

GBL wrote:
Step 1. Stop supporting specialist games.
Step 2. Raise the prices on specialist games.
Step 3. Allow this massive hole in the market to be filled by other companies.
Step 4. Phase out specialist games.

Genius. I cant see a single flaw in GW's business plan. Assuming their plan is to ultimately phase out GW.

Please tell me you know how to read a financial statement before you posted this drivel?

You might want to look at their financial statements and then you'd realise they actually make a NPAT (granted, I didn't check their notes so this is hearsay until we determine why) in the Australian market for their retail sector for the first time I've ever seen from them in 2012.

You are aware that GW's growth has been flat in an expanding market for a number of years? Regardless of their profits, they are seriously under performing in the context of a wider market, in spite of consistent price rises, which means they are almost certainly heading for a fall, as regardless of how inelastic they may consider their pricing, there will come a day when the prices exceed what the majority is able or willing to pay for the product they offer. If they continue to repeat their behaviour, this is simply an inevitability.

Besides that, how is your point relating to Aus profits even vaguely related to a post decrying GW for phasing out specialist games?

It IS a stupid idea. They've criminally neglected them all for years, driven them into the ground and subsequently got rid of them. All this in spite of the fact that they are blatantly held in high esteem by vet gamers, and would make an ideal gateway product into their larger cash cows which have a high barrier to entry in terms of cost, something which I've seen a number of posters here cite as the reason they have adopted another game (usually Warmachine) instead.

The decision to discontinue a range of products that are languishing in the doldrums is understandable, the reasons they've ended up there are unforgivable.

Regardless of profits, I sincerely believe that the company could and should be making a lot more money than it is, and the state of specialist games is a microcosm of all that is wrong with them and why they aren't.

 Byte wrote:
*Etrade baby shocked face*

Are they supposed to carry everything forever?

Uh, actually, I would say, yes.

I have here in my possession a White Dwarf 214, where they are advertising positions for 'Picker Trolls', and I quote:

"Older games and models never get deleted as far as we are concerned they just become part of our back catalogue range, we now have over 30,000 models and components."

This is an October (or Orktober, for those in the know) 1997 issue of WD. While I'm obviously not claiming that GW is obligated to fulfill a statement from a 10+ yr old magazine, this WAS, in fact, their actual business philosophy. Before the advent of modern inventory systems, before the development of RF ID tags, before any of the advances that streamlined and economized inventory management, GW had people who went around and looked in bins for the right part. This was an important part of their company identity.

Given that handling inventory now would be substantially cheaper and easier than in 1997, and given that GW could just pass the price onto the customer, why NOT keep stuff forever. Maybe the single Mordian with Meltagun you want is priced at $15, because it's not economical for them to cast it at $10. Maybe it's $20, maybe $30. However, it could be an option, priced at what the market demanded.

GW is sadly becoming an actual "collectible miniatures' company, as in, they release a model, and if you don't buy it, you don't have any other chance to get it later. Heck, they might as well go to randomized blind boxes. Being able to discover old miniatures, and being able to 'enter the hobby' at any time, were an important thing to GW at one point. I didn't even know about Warhammer 40K when the Praetorians were produced, but when I discovered them in an old WD in a bargain bin, I was able to start collecting them, directly from GW. Now, if you discover something cool that predates your discovery, you get two options. Forget about it (no business for GW) or buy on the secondary market (no business for GW).

Now, old molds do deteriorate, and it may not be economical to replace them or repair them. However, rather than abandoning them, GW could take those old models, a 3d scanner, a 3-D printer, and offer them as 'print on demand' models. Heck, they could adopt a Kickstarter model internally and allow people to commit to a press run of an old model, where if enough people will pledge $ for, say, Mordians, then GW will do a run of Mordian guard. There's just so much that they could do other than allowing old, classic models to die without even an acknowledgement.

How much would it have cost GW to post a notice on their OWN website about a limited opportunity to get these models? They are selling $40 t-shirts with a one week collection window, but they can't be arsed to announce discontinuing Epic? The actions they are taking aren't as sad as the fact that they just don't even seem to care.

I wait for the day where GW destroys any surviving specialist games products they can get ahold of ala Dreadfleet.

People saying GW is doing great because it "turned a profit" are seeing the trees instead of the forest. You have to be truly blind or willingly ignorant to not see the disaster they're setting themselves up for.

 Elemental wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
They.... are....... seriously....... DOING THIS TO US!!!

WTF is wrong with GW, first they try to make us pay more for crappy cartoony sculpts then they get rid of the cool stuff we like but they dont.

this calls for an emergency panic buying spree-i still have to finish my early imperial/Chaos fleet and my IG Epic with Titan support and my Adeptus Titanicus force and..........

Why GW, why

You don't approve of GW's actions, so you're going to give them lots of money?

If your choices are;

A. Swallow the horrible bitter lump of bile in your throat and hand GW some cash.
B: Wait a while and end up having to pay four+ times more money to opportunistic resellers on ebay.
C: Never complete the forces you've already spent significant amounts of time and money on and were looking forward to using.

Yeah, A is still the least-worst option.

Despite all the doom and gloom, I'm finding just a bit of hope that Necromunda is going away right as Shadowrun "Sprawl Gangers" is coming out.

Mantic fans seem to be heralding "Deadzone" as a successor to necromunda. I'm buying into Deadzone, and am doing so happily. However, with it being grid based and not campaign-focused, I think that Sprawl Gangers (which campaign focused and the designers mention Necro several times) has much more chance of being a Necro replacement.

 Harriticus wrote:

People saying GW is doing great because it "turned a profit" are seeing the trees instead of the forest. You have to be truly blind or willingly ignorant to not see the disaster they're setting themselves up for.

This is a decent enough analogy on how they are turning a profit.

Glad I sold all my Warmaster

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Elemental wrote:
You don't approve of GW's actions, so you're going to give them lots of money?

If your choices are;

A. Swallow the horrible bitter lump of bile in your throat and hand GW some cash.
B: Wait a while and end up having to pay four+ times more money to opportunistic resellers on ebay.
C: Never complete the forces you've already spent significant amounts of time and money on and were looking forward to using.

Yeah, A is still the least-worst option.

Or D: Move on to a company that doesn't despise you, and stop rewarding bad behaviour. Most of the time, you don't even need to give up the game itself, there are proxies out there for nearly everything. GW doesn't notice this thread and your complaints about them, they only notice if you're still handing over your cash or not. If you are, you can't really complain when they continue this behaviour.

 Elemental wrote:

Or D: Move on to a company that doesn't despise you, and stop rewarding bad behaviour. Most of the time, you don't even need to give up the game itself, there are proxies out there for nearly everything.

Sadly, not too many proxies around for BFG. Oh well, there are always recasters.... :/

 Elemental wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Elemental wrote:
You don't approve of GW's actions, so you're going to give them lots of money?

If your choices are;

A. Swallow the horrible bitter lump of bile in your throat and hand GW some cash.
B: Wait a while and end up having to pay four+ times more money to opportunistic resellers on ebay.
C: Never complete the forces you've already spent significant amounts of time and money on and were looking forward to using.

Yeah, A is still the least-worst option.

Or D: Move on to a company that doesn't despise you, and stop rewarding bad behaviour. Most of the time, you don't even need to give up the game itself, there are proxies out there for nearly everything. GW doesn't notice this thread and your complaints about them, they only notice if you're still handing over your cash or not. If you are, you can't really complain when they continue this behaviour.

 Eilif wrote:
Despite all the doom and gloom, I'm finding just a bit of hope that Necromunda is going away right as Shadowrun "Sprawl Gangers" is coming out.

Mantic fans seem to be heralding "Deadzone" as a successor to necromunda. I'm buying into Deadzone, and am doing so happily. However, with it being grid based and not campaign-focused, I think that Sprawl Gangers (which campaign focused and the designers mention Necro several times) has much more chance of being a Necro replacement.

Grid based seems like a non-issue and Deadzone will have a campaign system so it will be the Necromunda replacement for me. Jake's blog post on the grid decision: http://quirkworthy.com/2013/05/01/deadzone-designers-notes-grids-line-of-sight/

Definitely interested in Sprawl Gangers too. Love the Shadowrun setting.

~Eric

 Taarnak wrote:

 Eilif wrote:
Despite all the doom and gloom, I'm finding just a bit of hope that Necromunda is going away right as Shadowrun "Sprawl Gangers" is coming out.

Mantic fans seem to be heralding "Deadzone" as a successor to necromunda. I'm buying into Deadzone, and am doing so happily. However, with it being grid based and not campaign-focused, I think that Sprawl Gangers (which campaign focused and the designers mention Necro several times) has much more chance of being a Necro replacement.

Grid based seems like a non-issue and Deadzone will have a campaign system so it will be the Necromunda replacement for me. Jake's blog post on the grid decision: http://quirkworthy.com/2013/05/01/deadzone-designers-notes-grids-line-of-sight/

Definitely interested in Sprawl Gangers too. Love the Shadowrun setting.

~Eric

Thanks for the link it's a nice view of the author's reasoning.

You have a reasonable position, but for my self -and I suspect many other gamers- the limitations of a grid and it's effect on terrain (especially homemade) mean that Deadzone may be a great game, but it won't be a replacement for Necro.

Also, where's the info on a deadzone campaign system? The only comment on this I've heard so far is that the author's weren't intending to include scenarios beyond a learn-to-play intros. Scenarios are a vital part of a campaign system and were/are one of the great things about Necromunda.

I'd love to be wrong about this, so hopefully there will be some evidence to the contrary.

As for Shadowrun Sprawl Gangers, depending on the flexibility of the force lists and whether there is a unit creation mechanic, I'm thinking that there may be some opportunities for Deadzone figs to crossover and visa/versa.

I've also got Ghosts of Heife (not-blade-runner-gang-combat) coming from the just completed KS. It has a unit creation mechanic, so there may be crossover possibilities there also.

Ah good. This means they can focus more on the Hobbit and LoTR. . .

 puma713 wrote:
Ah good. This means they can focus more on the Hobbit and LoTR. . .

Yeah, funny thing, I realized that exact same thing happened with Google: they removed cache option from their searches on the grounds that "most users were not using them, so it was better for us to streamline our services". Unfortunately, convenient cache was the main reason for me to use Google, so bye bye Google!

 Eilif wrote:

 Taarnak wrote:

 Eilif wrote:
Despite all the doom and gloom, I'm finding just a bit of hope that Necromunda is going away right as Shadowrun "Sprawl Gangers" is coming out.

Mantic fans seem to be heralding "Deadzone" as a successor to necromunda. I'm buying into Deadzone, and am doing so happily. However, with it being grid based and not campaign-focused, I think that Sprawl Gangers (which campaign focused and the designers mention Necro several times) has much more chance of being a Necro replacement.

Grid based seems like a non-issue and Deadzone will have a campaign system so it will be the Necromunda replacement for me. Jake's blog post on the grid decision: http://quirkworthy.com/2013/05/01/deadzone-designers-notes-grids-line-of-sight/

Definitely interested in Sprawl Gangers too. Love the Shadowrun setting.

~Eric

Thanks for the link it's a nice view of the author's reasoning.

You have a reasonable position, but for my self -and I suspect many other gamers- the limitations of a grid and it's effect on terrain (especially homemade) mean that Deadzone may be a great game, but it won't be a replacement for Necro.

Also, where's the info on a deadzone campaign system? The only comment on this I've heard so far is that the author's weren't intending to include scenarios beyond a learn-to-play intros. Scenarios are a vital part of a campaign system and were/are one of the great things about Necromunda.

I'd love to be wrong about this, so hopefully there will be some evidence to the contrary.

As for Shadowrun Sprawl Gangers, depending on the flexibility of the force lists and whether there is a unit creation mechanic, I'm thinking that there may be some opportunities for Deadzone figs to crossover and visa/versa.

I've also got Ghosts of Heife (not-blade-runner-gang-combat) coming from the just completed KS. It has a unit creation mechanic, so there may be crossover possibilities there also.

They haven't posted hard info on the campaign system yet but have said more than once it will be there.

I also have Ghosts of Hefei (love Goalsystem rules). Good choice.

~Eric

I'd love to see a new Necromunda boxed game!

Might I direct you to Deadzone, then Squat Kid?

Space Dwarfs will be incoming too at some point!