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Corbett wrote:
First let me say I'm not trying to start a arguement or call anyone out.

With that said, I'm going to repeat my conversation with some individuals at GW HQ. When I asked/told them about the rumor that SG was being phased out. They laughed and said "We have done some dumb things over the years, we admit that, but SG last year alone counted for 18% of our overall sales. Why would we give away that much in sales." followed up with, a statement that they admit to be phasing out metals, but that people need to be patient as old metals get new molds, and are put into plastic and finecast.

Now granted it would not surprise me if one hand didn't know what the other was up to, but I have a hard time thinking any company would cut out close to 20% of sales. Of course they could also just be telling me this so not to much blood is leaked into the water for other compaines to go into a feeding frenzy on since they have similar lines. (like firestorm, etc)

I'd be more inclined to believe this if plastic wasn't disappearing and if FW hadn't pulled their product.

When did this conversation take place?

Corbett wrote:
First let me say I'm not trying to start a arguement or call anyone out.

With that said, I'm going to repeat my conversation with some individuals at GW HQ. When I asked/told them about the rumor that SG was being phased out. They laughed and said "We have done some dumb things over the years, we admit that, but SG last year alone counted for 18% of our overall sales. Why would we give away that much in sales." followed up with, a statement that they admit to be phasing out metals, but that people need to be patient as old metals get new molds, and are put into plastic and finecast.

Now granted it would not surprise me if one hand didn't know what the other was up to, but I have a hard time thinking any company would cut out close to 20% of sales. Of course they could also just be telling me this so not to much blood is leaked into the water for other compaines to go into a feeding frenzy on since they have similar lines. (like firestorm, etc)

Corbett wrote:
First let me say I'm not trying to start a arguement or call anyone out.

With that said, I'm going to repeat my conversation with some individuals at GW HQ. When I asked/told them about the rumor that SG was being phased out. They laughed and said "We have done some dumb things over the years, we admit that, but SG last year alone counted for 18% of our overall sales. Why would we give away that much in sales." followed up with, a statement that they admit to be phasing out metals, but that people need to be patient as old metals get new molds, and are put into plastic and finecast.

Now granted it would not surprise me if one hand didn't know what the other was up to, but I have a hard time thinking any company would cut out close to 20% of sales. Of course they could also just be telling me this so not to much blood is leaked into the water for other compaines to go into a feeding frenzy on since they have similar lines. (like firestorm, etc)

You need to come to the table with more then that.

As for the underlined.... You don't keep up with current events, do you?

You having a conversation with some git doesn't help that the overall impression of GW is that they are pulling a TSR and dying the death of thier own design.

If this was just a poorly communicated retooling, I think I'd be even more annoyed. Either way (a major overhaul without telling anybody why stuff is going away, or ending a line without notice) they're guilty of some pretty lousy communication with their customers and fans. If they ended a line, then they were lousy at communications but at least I got (most) of what I wanted. If they were retooling, they were lousy at communications and left me feeling pretty lousy about myself after making a rather large purchase that further leaves me feeling like I was tricked.

Corbett wrote:
First let me say I'm not trying to start a arguement or call anyone out.

With that said, I'm going to repeat my conversation with some individuals at GW HQ. When I asked/told them about the rumor that SG was being phased out. They laughed and said "We have done some dumb things over the years, we admit that, but SG last year alone counted for 18% of our overall sales. Why would we give away that much in sales." followed up with, a statement that they admit to be phasing out metals, but that people need to be patient as old metals get new molds, and are put into plastic and finecast.

Now granted it would not surprise me if one hand didn't know what the other was up to, but I have a hard time thinking any company would cut out close to 20% of sales. Of course they could also just be telling me this so not to much blood is leaked into the water for other compaines to go into a feeding frenzy on since they have similar lines. (like firestorm, etc)

If they were telling you the truth, then discontinuing SG doesn't make much sense. When did you have this conversation and who did you talk too?

 Eilif wrote:
Folks say these things, but that's really just speculation by folks who haven't seen GW's sales numbers. Just because a property is languishing doesn't mean that it has the potential for profit making. Step back a second and think about this..
Does anyone actually think that GW stopped supporting SG because they were making alot of money with those lines?
I'm speculating too, but it's far more likely that they were't making much money and GW is simply doing now what it didn't do 6 years ago
.

I can tell you it isn't speculation on my part, I hail from a time when GW actively promoted SG, you know what? They sold really, really well. The tabletop hobby is now much larger than 20 years ago, so there is absolutely no reason not to assume they would be successful now. The simple model of releasing a new or updated SG once a year, then ferociously promoting the hell out of it in WD with new rules, scenarios etc was a good one, it stopped, as people have already mentioned, boredom and offered variety, and it kept people spending money between army updates.

Also, because Space Hulk.

Minsc wrote:

timd wrote:
So the availability message at the bottom does not mean anything?
"This product is expected to despatch within four weeks."

Was under the impression that they were casting stuff to fill current orders with four weeks being the casting and shipping time to get stuff to GW OZ. Is this not the case?

Thanks,

Tim

email wrote:In regards to order [REDACTED]. Unfortunately we’re out of stock of BG Rogue Trader Cruiser at the moment. According to our UK office we will not be getting more in stock. In turn this is holding up you order as we only ship orders that we can completely fulfill.

So yeah.

Called GW US today and the sales rep said that they would be filling every order that has been placed, so that takes care of most of my questions.

The anomaly on the US site is the AdMech Light Cruiser. Its still listed but gives an "insufficient stock" note and does not add it to the cart. It has been doing this since day one of the selloff so I have never been able to order one and they still have not taken it off the site. Asked the sales rep to chase this down and find out what is happening. We shall see if anything results from this request...

Tim

 Eilif wrote:

I don't think either of us know how profitable SG was, but I do agree about the move away from metal. GW seems to be getting out of metal. If SG wasn't worth developing further 6 years ago then it certainly wouldn't be getting the finecast treatment now.

I'll be blunt: Jervis Johnson turned down an offer to develop BFG further FOR FREE. Free as in absolutely at no cost to GW whatsoever, 100% profit in their pocket. Free. THAT'S how disinterested GW was in pursuing further development of SG and BFG in particular.

In addition: my order for Falchion frigs shows up today. According to the packaging, they were shipped to the US from GW UK, so they're shifting around as much product as they can to meet orders.

I'm not entirely sure how you can pin it down exactly on Jervis' head without evidence and/or proof.

 Compel wrote:
I'm not entirely sure how you can pin it down exactly on Jervis' head without evidence and/or proof.

Because he was the one spoken to, directly, in person. Sadly, no recordings were produced for the internet's idea of 'proof'.

Or do you mean about SG in general?

I mean, I seriously doubt, even as 'lead games developer' or whatever his title is, Jervis would have any real say in any financial / marketing decisions about what Games Workshop brands to 'further develop.'

 Eilif wrote:

Maybe GW's inaction created the numbers, but I'm not convinced.
Take Necro for an example, GW released a new rulebook, and started releasing new sculpts (Enforcers, Van Saar, Goliath, etc.) . Then GW stopped developing Necro. Seems likely that those new lines didn't sell well enough to warrant further investment.

What I'm trying to say is that maybe more could have been done, but looking at the history it looks like it wasn't all "inaction" GW did try to reboot Necro and even released new miniatures. I just don't think it worked. In light of that, more development might well have been seen as good money after bad.

Releasing an updated rulebook and a few new sculpts is a fairly half assed attempt at "rebooting" the game. What did GW do to actually promote this reboot of Necromunda? Was there a new starter box released? Did it get the cover picture on a White Dwarf or two? Were several feet of shelf space in their stores devoted to it? (another reason why the games got no support is that GW has this asinine policy of only promoting what they can actually fit on the shelves in their own stores and to hell with the FLGSs)

Blood Bowl got a few new models, too, but I recall little to no fanfare upon their release. And, as stated in the Blood Bowl thread, this year is the 25th anniversary of the game, and GW has done jack and squat about it, while Mantic is raking in the cash with Dreadball.

I remember when Inquisitor was released, there was a huge amount about it in White Dwarf for about 6 months, tonnes of new releases and development...and then nothing. It ceased to exist as far as GW's publications were concerned. That should tell you a fair bit about how financially successful Inquisitor was for GW.

SG stopped being supported because they took resources away from more profitable lines (40k and, in those days, fantasy). I suppose sales finally dipped to the point where it couldn't even justify warehouse space any more.

 BryllCream wrote:
I suppose sales finally dipped to the point where it couldn't even justify warehouse space any more.

I think they just wanted to free up warehouse space since they closed down Memphis. I don't know how much floorspace SG stuff took up but having it go to new release stock instead would be a step in solving their supply problem. The question is, how big a step?

 BryllCream wrote:
I remember when Inquisitor was released, there was a huge amount about it in White Dwarf for about 6 months, tonnes of new releases and development...and then nothing. It ceased to exist as far as GW's publications were concerned. That should tell you a fair bit about how financially successful Inquisitor was for GW.

SG stopped being supported because they took resources away from more profitable lines (40k and, in those days, fantasy). I suppose sales finally dipped to the point where it couldn't even justify warehouse space any more.

That was just the pattern, launch new SG, promote the feth out of it, drop it like its hot. Following year, repeat.

Things like the Citadel Journal helped to keep whichever games weren't front and centre ticking over, but no SG was ever in the spotlight for long, financial performance wasn't a factor.

I just hope my Sisters are not on the chopping block. Wait, I have had my Sisters for nearly 6 months now and haven't gotten a single game in....What am I worried about again?

Looks likethe recasters are going to do alright for the first little bit of products becoming unavailable. After that I only see the hardcore hobbyists with pressure pots in their garage trading casts they made within their various gaming groups.

 Compel wrote:
I mean, I seriously doubt, even as 'lead games developer' or whatever his title is, Jervis would have any real say in any financial / marketing decisions about what Games Workshop brands to 'further develop.'

He's the man who directly and in person turned down a plan to further develop BFG, for free, from some of the original BFG authors. It would not have cost GW a cent other than pdf hosting fees and was endorsed by the BFG Rules Committee.

I got to hear a lot about this (In the form of angry PMs afterward) as he also declined to sanction BFG FAQ 2010, who's development was complete and ready to go. (Note, it was released on the web anyway.)

The point I'm trying to say is, are you sure that he did it, or was he instructed from on high to decline it?

 Compel wrote:
The point I'm trying to say is, are you sure that he did it, or was he instructed from on high to decline it?

I can't say due to not having been personally present, but from the sound of things, this was his personal decision. I'm told his attitude about it was somewhat irksome to those present. I'm told that he didn't 'just' decline, but also gave them attitude about it.

Another irritating fact:
Imperial Armour 3 2nd edition (yet to be released widely) appears to have the Tau BFG rules in.

Update: - I ordered some Necromunda Stuff a few weeks ago, one of the items was Kal Jerico Character. I was sent wverything, but refunded on this due to it disappearing off their webstore. I wrote an email complaint as it had taken 6 days for them to removed an item still listed as in stock.

Today I recieved a reply, appologised for the delay, but due to the issues on the Tau releases they were experiencing higher email traffic. Basically I was told that Kal Jerico is being recast at the moment, and once they have enough buffer stock, it will be back on the webstore. They've offered to retake payment and send me it as soon as its possible.

 zedmeister wrote:
Another irritating fact:
Imperial Armour 3 2nd edition (yet to be released widely) appears to have the Tau BFG rules in.

Does not surprise me. They probably hadn't made the decision yet to ditch them during development.

BaronIveagh wrote:

 Compel wrote:
The point I'm trying to say is, are you sure that he did it, or was he instructed from on high to decline it?

I can't say due to not having been personally present, but from the sound of things, this was his personal decision. I'm told his attitude about it was somewhat irksome to those present. I'm told that he didn't 'just' decline, but also gave them attitude about it.

I find it hard to believe (head of the design studio or not) that it is JJ's call to approve resources to review and publish a revised ruleset away from existing work loads that at the time would possible have included DE, Grey Knights 6th edition etc.

Even a "free" revision would have required reviewing checking and I would suggest playtesting before you would accept it and rubber stamp it for publication. There is also the question of legal ownership to resolve.

In that boat I could see JJ getting annoyed at A) not having authority to approve it and B) probably wanting to. Gamers are persistent beasts as well so much moaning was probably directed at him too. Playing devils advocate for him id get pretty annoyed in this situation as well.

TheSecretSquig wrote:Update: - I ordered some Necromunda Stuff a few weeks ago, one of the items was Kal Jerico Character. I was sent wverything, but refunded on this due to it disappearing off their webstore. I wrote an email complaint as it had taken 6 days for them to removed an item still listed as in stock.

Today I recieved a reply, appologised for the delay, but due to the issues on the Tau releases they were experiencing higher email traffic. Basically I was told that Kal Jerico is being recast at the moment, and once they have enough buffer stock, it will be back on the webstore. They've offered to retake payment and send me it as soon as its possible.

Curiously this nudged me into giving GW CS a call, I was told that if it wasn't on the website it was no longer being sold. I hope that this is just a CS lackey assuming things as I wouldn't mind getting the Scum and Bounty Hunter figures for NEcro now that they are not on the site! Why did I put it off for so long?

 notprop wrote:

Even a "free" revision would have required reviewing checking and I would suggest playtesting before you would accept it and rubber stamp it for publication. There is also the question of legal ownership to resolve.

All of which had already been done by the GW appointed BFG rules committee. When I say this was ready to go, it was fething READY. We had play tested it for six months and I know that I, at least, had to fill in the usual permissions to use my name and work etc.

dunno, I can see GW doing this,

let internet rumors that SG are all going OOP forever to fuel a massive buy off of remaining metal stock (hence why they are casting all the orders made, this means they will use up the alst of their metal supplies and such)

so people buy SG's when they normally would, just because they are now rare and soon unavailable

then after the 40k fanfare dies a down abit, re release stuff in resin or plastic, for even more gobs of money.



or at least thats what I hope will happen

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
Another irritating fact:
Imperial Armour 3 2nd edition (yet to be released widely) appears to have the Tau BFG rules in.

Does not surprise me. They probably hadn't made the decision yet to ditch them during development.

It does not have Epic Armageddon anymore, though. It probably doesn't mean anything however.

 easysauce wrote:
dunno, I can see GW doing this,

let internet rumors that SG are all going OOP forever to fuel a massive buy off of remaining metal stock (hence why they are casting all the orders made, this means they will use up the alst of their metal supplies and such)

so people buy SG's when they normally would, just because they are now rare and soon unavailable

then after the 40k fanfare dies a down abit, re release stuff in resin or plastic, for even more gobs of money.



or at least thats what I hope will happen

That really would seem to take Games Workshop being Games Workshop to a new level. I'm certainly not going to say it's impossible, but that's getting to some conspiracy theory levels of dickishness from GW.

 easysauce wrote:
dunno, I can see GW doing this,

let internet rumors that SG are all going OOP forever to fuel a massive buy off of remaining metal stock (hence why they are casting all the orders made, this means they will use up the alst of their metal supplies and such)

so people buy SG's when they normally would, just because they are now rare and soon unavailable

then after the 40k fanfare dies a down abit, re release stuff in resin or plastic, for even more gobs of money.



or at least thats what I hope will happen

That may be the case, as their fast release cycle for 40k/Fantasy may mean they need to break it up with Specialist Games again, which will no less make me want to kick the GW high ups in the teeth for being annoying bastards, but it will be nice if these games could become mainstream again like they were in the 90s.

I think this may all turn out to be false and SG isn't dead.

Was checking a link is a discussion on another forum and noticed the Warmaster figure had a note of "Expected to dispatch in four weeks". Struck me as odd, and decided to check on the Warmaster Dark Elf Hydra which had been listed as no longer available when this rumor first started and I went to try to buy it. Option to add to shopping cart was gone.

Is there now available for purchase with the same message:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat490075a&prodId=prod1130023

Think there was some bad communication on between production and sales or GW just played us for a bunch of tools.

And Kid Kyoto, Arbite Enforcers are baaaaack!
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat490065a&prodId=prod1120127