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Indeed. I don't believe in justice. I do however believe in vengeance, and chocolate cake. Those two concepts aren't related though. Usually.

We let the justice system take its course.
Vigilante justice is NOT justice, it is colored perceptions acting out on mob mentality.
And how does immolation not make you cruel? Because it is justified?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
We let the justice system take its course.
Vigilante justice is NOT justice, it is colored perceptions acting out on mob mentality.
And how does immolation not make you cruel? Because it is justified?

Well yeah. Obviously.

You don't actually think the posters here are going to try to drag these men out of their jail cells and hang them or something, do you? It's just people venting.

I don't think any of these men will be free again. Life in prison. Hell, even a 20 year sentence is a life sentence for 50 year olds.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
We let the justice system take its course.
Vigilante justice is NOT justice, it is colored perceptions acting out on mob mentality.
And how does immolation not make you cruel? Because it is justified?

I've got nothing against being cruel to evil people. Please wake me up when you have a point.

But how does that not make YOU evil and cruel?

 kronk wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
We let the justice system take its course.
Vigilante justice is NOT justice, it is colored perceptions acting out on mob mentality.
And how does immolation not make you cruel? Because it is justified?

Well yeah. Obviously.

You don't actually think the posters here are going to try to drag these men out of their jail cells and hang them or something, do you? It's just people venting.

I don't think any of these men will be free again. Life in prison. Hell, even a 20 year sentence is a life sentence for 50 year olds.

Well I have some time tomorrow evening if somone could ship them over to the park behind my Houston house. There's a lovely nature spot there and connecting bayou. Are they allergic to fire ants? How about a few thousand of them?


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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
But how does that not make YOU evil and cruel?

Nope. He who lives by the sword dies by the sword. I'm still snoring.

hotsauceman1 wrote:Sometimes Dakka can scare me with the punishments they think of. You all cant be serious? Can you? Isnt "Cruel and unusual punishment" part of the constitution? Y'know the thing this country if founded on.

I was always amused by that phrase. So, in order to legitimize a cruel punishment, all we need to do is inflict on enough people that it's not considered unusual.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
We let the justice system take its course.
Vigilante justice is NOT justice, it is colored perceptions acting out on mob mentality.
And how does immolation not make you cruel? Because it is justified?

I blame it on the Dexter phenomenon.

Current incarceration is NOT enough to disincentivize these actions... current incarceration's role is to just keep the convict out of the public.

There's not sense of "justice" per se anymore...

Punishments need to fit the crimes...and what punishment do we have on the books that befits this crime, locking them up, and giving them all the standard entitlements that any other prisoner gets, 3 hots and a cot.

These men kidnapped and held 3 young girls for YEARS, submitting them to god knows what, and scarring them for the rest of their lives.

The justice system will merely lock these guys up in the same place that a car thief will go.

I don't call that Justice..its just the system.

So what is justice? And who is allowed to carry it out? Some Joe Schmo with a love of molotov cocktails?
And the death penalty isn't enough to stop killers, there are and always will be horrible crime, you CANT stop people from wanting to do it because they always will.

Execute the captors.

Spend the state funds that would have gone into their keep into therapy and support for their victims.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Execute the captors.

Spend the state funds that would have gone into their keep into therapy and support for their victims.

Well... I wouldn't execute them... unless being drawn and quarter'ed is allowed.

Otherwise, make their existance publicly miserable... like real chain-gangs. Forced labor. No amenities what so ever...

In cases where there is no shadow of a doubt, and crimes are premeditated and deliberate, we as a society should treat it like any other predator , remove it in the most effective and permanent method possible, with the least impact on the population at large.

You don't hang someone for shoplifting, but what amounts to kidnapping and sexual slavery....I will start tying the noose for that one.

I thought the whole reason we left the jungle was so that we didnt act like other predators?
And what if we had some highly sadistic fether in the position to decide punishments? they might choose overly high punishments.
TBH alot of this sounds like justice before we where civilized.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I thought the whole reason we left the jungle was so that we didnt act like other predators?
And what if we had some highly sadistic fether in the position to decide punishments? they might choose overly high punishments.
TBH alot of this sounds like justice before we where civilized.

Predators are still predators, just because they wear a suit and have concrete under their feet does not change the fact.

There is never one person that gets to spin a wheel or decide random punishments,

Since when have criminals ever been civilized in their actions.

The only reason that punishments have become more "Humane" is to allow people to feel better about the enacting of them, has the crime rate reduced as we became a modern culture, have people stopped murdering each other now that we don't string them up from a tree..

Use to be there was not a concept of a repeat offender of a capitol crime, now we do have that.

You want to know what's cruel and unusual hotsauceman...

Gina Dejesus, the youngest of the three women was forced to be impregnated several times over the past decade, but was beaten to the point she lost the babies...

The fething donkey-caves deserve the worst punishment possible...

Chains hanging from the ceiling... these guys are sick...

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

And the death penalty isn't enough to stop killers, there are and always will be horrible crime, you CANT stop people from wanting to do it because they always will.

The death penalty is enough to stop repeat offenders. Countries with an active death penalty have a 0% repeat offence rate for crimes that received the death penalty.

I agree, Life in prison. What I dont agree in is becoming ust as bad as the donkey caves.
Lets say someone went out(Maybe the parents of the victims) and kidnapped the suspects. Now lets say they did horrible things to them, like IDk, shocked their genitals, Cut off pieces of skin, or drowned them. What would you think then? Would they be justified in their actions?
We should not become just as bad as them

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:

Since when have criminals ever been civilized in their actions.

Since never, but we as a civilized society should NOT seek to emulate their actions or become just as cruel as them.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I agree, Life in prison. What I dont agree in is becoming ust as bad as the donkey caves.
Lets say someone went out(Maybe the parents of the victims) and kidnapped the suspects. Now lets say they did horrible things to them, like IDk, shocked their genitals, Cut off pieces of skin, or drowned them. What would you think then? Would they be justified in their actions?
We should not become just as bad as them

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:

Since when have criminals ever been civilized in their actions.

Since never, but we as a civilized society should NOT seek to emulate their actions or become just as cruel as them.

Here's a question for you...

What do you believe incarceration should be used?

Is it strictly a function to keep those incarcerated away from the public? As it does pretty much now?

Can you believe incarceration could be used as a deterance? If so, how[i]?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I agree, Life in prison.

Do you know how much it costs to incarcerate someone for a year, let alone the rest of their life? Society shouldn't be forced to endure a tax burden because some people are too squeamish to kill. Any crime that results in a life sentence should be a death penalty.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I agree, Life in prison. What I dont agree in is becoming ust as bad as the donkey caves.
Lets say someone went out(Maybe the parents of the victims) and kidnapped the suspects. Now lets say they did horrible things to them, like IDk, shocked their genitals, Cut off pieces of skin, or drowned them. What would you think then?

I would buy them a ing beer.

This isnt about being squimish to kill, this is ABOUT how it would make us just as bad as them.
And as a society we have to come to terms, what do we want, a civilized society where we do not go towards acts of vendettas against some, because like i said, those acts are clouded by hate and anger. Ot a free for all society where punishment is death? Why not kill everyone for a crime? If you are not willing to pay for 20 years why pay for 1?


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 Frazzled wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I agree, Life in prison. What I dont agree in is becoming ust as bad as the donkey caves.
Lets say someone went out(Maybe the parents of the victims) and kidnapped the suspects. Now lets say they did horrible things to them, like IDk, shocked their genitals, Cut off pieces of skin, or drowned them. What would you think then?

I would buy them a ing beer.

God, I am glad i live no where near Texas. You think they would be justified? Despite doing horrible things?

Ot a free for all society where punishment is death? Why not kill everyone for a crime? If you are not willing to pay for 20 years why pay for 1?

Ah now you're starting to come around at last.

But I'll go with life if you so desperately want it, in the Black Hole of Calcutta.

Penalties for the guilty aside for a moment...

How long is it going to take these women to "adjust" back into society. Also, the little girl.

Someone punishing a criminal can NEVER be as bad as a person that committed a crime on a innocent person, same actions..completely different motivations, soldiers kill the enemy in combat does that make them murderers, maybe so if you apply that logic.

Sorry buddy, some people on this big world need to be removed when their sick demented tendencies come to light.

your rose colored ideas of how things should be are naïve at best, go spend some time at a prison or sit in on some court cases, and watch our wonderful legal system at work..or not work as the case may be, we have child rapists and repeat offenders constantly being shown the door, 5 years good behavior on a 30 year sentence.

Then they move in 2 doors down from you....

They will never adjust. The best that can be hoped for now is limiting the damage and making their lives as good as possible.

 Redbeard wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I agree, Life in prison.

Do you know how much it costs to incarcerate someone for a year, let alone the rest of their life? Society shouldn't be forced to endure a tax burden because some people are too squeamish to kill. Any crime that results in a life sentence should be a death penalty.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

They don't just inject someone and call it a day. Most people on death row tend to be there for a very long time, requiring the same tax burden of any other criminal, and then there's the massive amount of appeals involved which end up costing more than lifetime incarceration.

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
Someone punishing a criminal can NEVER be as bad as a person that committed a crime on a innocent person, same actions..completely different motivations, soldiers kill the enemy in combat does that make them murderers, maybe so if you apply that logic.

Sorry buddy, some people on this big world need to be removed when their sick demented tendencies come to light.

your rose colored ideas of how things should be are naïve at best, go spend some time at a prison or sit in on some court cases, and watch our wonderful legal system at work..or not work as the case may be, we have child rapists and repeat offenders constantly being shown the door, 5 years good behavior on a 30 year sentence.

Then they move in 2 doors down from you....

I have read court cases. I have read horrible books(One moment will always stay with me is reading a book about dehumanizing, where Japanese soldier pput explosives in pregnant womens wombs). I know what im talking about, But what im scared of is a society where we fall in love with the killing, the death and the execution of these prisoners, where we become so blood thirsty that we may not even care about the trial or a system, wher they kill you on the spot, Which is what people here are proposing. I think your ideas of killing people for crimes is sick.

I worry about the 6 year old the most. Poor girl, I hope she is able to recover.

I have a 2 month year old girl and stuff like this makes my gut hurt.

I have no sympathy for whatever happens to those three.. creatures.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
Someone punishing a criminal can NEVER be as bad as a person that committed a crime on a innocent person, same actions..completely different motivations, soldiers kill the enemy in combat does that make them murderers, maybe so if you apply that logic.

Sorry buddy, some people on this big world need to be removed when their sick demented tendencies come to light.

your rose colored ideas of how things should be are naïve at best, go spend some time at a prison or sit in on some court cases, and watch our wonderful legal system at work..or not work as the case may be, we have child rapists and repeat offenders constantly being shown the door, 5 years good behavior on a 30 year sentence.

Then they move in 2 doors down from you....

I have read court cases. I have read horrible books(One moment will always stay with me is reading a book about dehumanizing, where Japanese soldier pput explosives in pregnant womens wombs). I know what im talking about, But what im scared of is a society where we fall in love with the killing, the death and the execution of these prisoners, where we become so blood thirsty that we may not even care about the trial or a system, wher they kill you on the spot, Which is what people here are proposing. I think your ideas of killing people for crimes is sick.

So... you're okay with life in prison for this fethers even after up to five deliberate abortions-by-beating:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2320519/Amanda-Berry-Gina-DeJesus-Michele-Knight-Ohio-trio-went-missing-TEN-YEARS-ago-ALIVE.html