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i see it as once all codexs are at 6th edition,that only leaves models to be updated after that.in my honest opinion updateing all the armies is a great idea,that way all players are at the same edition at games.

once they get the codexs done,we can all hope that this will give GW the time to make models for those charecters that have no model.

lack luster release i dont agree with,necrons and DE got hughe army revamps,but they were also some of the most bland armies pre their update,eldar release looks bland to me because well their eldar,clean and fine tuned race they are.

i for one cant wait till the ork codex redue,but biteing my nails at the same time.not for the model release although a mega nod plastic kit would be awsome(wishful thought),but more so how will they change their play style,like when they did nids,wow we can take nine carnifexs on the tabel,but alas their point cost wont really alow :(

those are my thoughts but hey there just thoughts.

thanks
31

Give me dexes that are half-way balanced internally and externally so I don't have to feel like I am either playing with both hands tied behind my back (Necrons in most of 5th edition) or that I am clubbing baby seals (Necrons in early 6th edition).

Make sure that there is at least some sort of model for every unit so I don't have to do extensive conversions/scratchbuilds or buy a questionable version from a third party (Tyranids...still).

Make the army playstyle fit with it's fluff, with a few different competitive builds.


Accomplish that without forcing me to take out a second mortgage just to stay current, and I'm good. 6th edition has been doing most of that pretty well (with the exception of the second mortgage), and has been kicking out dexes at a furious pace. It sounds like it's supposed to slow down, which is fine as long as they pay attention to the dexes that really need it the most.

Eberious wrote:
Good lord guys, life is to short.

I find the discussion very well thought out and interesting.

Question. Do guys think there is a abundance of never use units in the new books?

 Goliath wrote:
Good lord yes. I wants me some Flash Gitz (I'm hoping to run a little mercenary detachment of a couple of units of Flash Gitz with Kaptin Badrukk, with wave upon wave of Piratical Grot)

The Orks are just one of those product lines that always seems to be missing something, or has hand-me-downs from the Gorkamorka days. I truly believe that one day they'll get all their missing units.

 Goliath wrote:
I quite liked the idea of a chariot pulled by a flying bird, I just think they really screwed up when someone at GW went "So, the eagle goes below the chariot, that way due to the tension on the harness the chariot will be pulled down! That means it flies right?"

For a guy doing an engineering degree, that hurt.

The High Elf Eagle Chariot is an interesting case as I saw a lot of people saying things like "If you can accept magic and giant robots why does this break your suspension of disbelief?". I think Kyoto said it best when he said (paraphrasing): "I know how a chariot works. I know how an eagle works. Combining like this would not work, and I can't see it any other way." Often it's not the big things that break our suspension of disbelief (giant ghost-controlled walkers, daemonically possessed cannons that fire tortures souls, etc.) but instead it's the little things that drive us nuts (where is the Chibi-Hawk's fuselage? Why is the Dreadknight's pilot just sorta hanging there? How in the hell would that Eagle Chariot actually work?).

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

The High Elf Eagle Chariot is an interesting case as I saw a lot of people saying things like "If you can accept magic and giant robots why does this break your suspension of disbelief?". I think Kyoto said it best when he said (paraphrasing): "I know how a chariot works. I know how an eagle works. Combining like this would not work, and I can't see it any other way." Often it's not the big things that break our suspension of disbelief (giant ghost-controlled walkers, daemonically possessed cannons that fire tortures souls, etc.) but instead it's the little things that drive us nuts (where is the Chibi-Hawk's fuselage? Why is the Dreadknight's pilot just sorta hanging there? How in the hell would that Eagle Chariot actually work?).

That was a really excellent post, I often get pissed off about little things, and that post probably best sums up my feelings about all kinds of things, because I too was annoyed with the flying eagle, but am more than happy tp see rainbow elves shred people with glitter guns.

I don't see how the flying eagle is conceptually difficult. Imagine the carriage + rider are weightless and they're dragged along by the eagle, where the charector with his long spear can lance enemies. The eagle is flying at ground height so it would not be that different from a normal chariot.

That's not to say that it still doesn't look clunky and frankly a bit bizarre.

I started in the, "Once all the old books are updated..." camp and then I thought about it. It's not like the sculptors and writers are the same people. I now think it's more of a capacity issue; GW only has so much capacity to produce new plastic kits what with all the die cutting and other manufacturing nonsense that's involved. An accelerated release schedule means less time to ensure proper stock of big range changes so they pick and choose what's going to make the most short-term sales while the updated miniatures are left for later.

That said. I agree that the current releases are lazy to an extent. Why did Eldar need a giant robot kit when they have the Avatar just languishing..it's already a MC for cripe's sake and is almost smaller than a krootox which isn't.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Goliath wrote:
Good lord yes. I wants me some Flash Gitz (I'm hoping to run a little mercenary detachment of a couple of units of Flash Gitz with Kaptin Badrukk, with wave upon wave of Piratical Grot)

The Orks are just one of those product lines that always seems to be missing something, or has hand-me-downs from the Gorkamorka days. I truly believe that one day they'll get all their missing units.

Hopefully. At the moment I'm having to resort to FW and Scratchbuilding to satisfy my urge for fun wheeled stuff, as they seem to be better value for money at the moment when compared to the frankly rather awful warbuggies.

 spaceelf wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
I suppose though that the line didn't need such an extensive update like the DE needed.

I assume that you are being sarcastic. There are some 'current' Eldar units that date back to 2nd ed.

I wasn't. The entire line was pretty outdated. The current Eldar, on the other hand, aren't nearly so bad. Yeah, there's still 2nd edition units, but they've received updates since. The Dark Eldar? Not so much.

 BryllCream wrote:
I don't see how the flying eagle is conceptually difficult. Imagine the carriage + rider are weightless and they're dragged along by the eagle, where the charector with his long spear can lance enemies. The eagle is flying at ground height so it would not be that different from a normal chariot.

That's not to say that it still doesn't look clunky and frankly a bit bizarre.

Wood isn't bouyant in air. That makes it a "difficult" concept as it currently is. It could be fixed by just switching which of the eagle and chariot was higher, as that way the eagle would actually be supplying the upwards force to keep the chariot flying.

As it is, the eagle moves forwards, and the harness converts part of that into horizontal force, and part of it into vertical force, except this vertical force is downwards due to the angle of the connecting rope.

So yeah, the eagle might be flying around at ground height, but the moment immediately after the model (if it were real), the downwards force would propel the chariot into the floor.

Either that or it would start oscillating up and down behind the eagle, as the angle changes and the vertical component flips between positive and negative, which would be both bad for the crewmembers, and could well yank the eagle out of the air at the bottom of the downswing.




I have spent far too long doing mechanics revision today.

What if 2 Eagles gripped it by some strands of creeper?

Especially if they were from Araby and they held it under the dorsal guiding feathers.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:

 spaceelf wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
I suppose though that the line didn't need such an extensive update like the DE needed.

I assume that you are being sarcastic. There are some 'current' Eldar units that date back to 2nd ed.

I wasn't. The entire line was pretty outdated. The current Eldar, on the other hand, aren't nearly so bad. Yeah, there's still 2nd edition units, but they've received updates since. The Dark Eldar? Not so much.

They may be nice models, but they are all finecast, therefore this puts many people - including me- right off. Dont misread this thinking that every unit should have a plastic release, but seriously? One out of the six types of aspect warriors in plastic, there should at least be a 50:50 split on plastic and finecast to make the army anywhere near pratical

Personally I think the Rogue Trader Warlocks look better than the new Spiritseer (look at the missing folds of the cloth).
I also like the current Aspect Warriors.
The jetbike needs to be updated though, esp. since the prototype is now also 6 years old.

 Flippa wrote:
What if 2 Eagles gripped it by some strands of creeper?

Especially if they were from Araby and they held it under the dorsal guiding feathers.

everyone knows Araby giant eagles are non-migratory. You'd never find them far enough north for the Elves.


To be somewhat on-topic, what I'm finding bland is not so much the models, but the predictability of each release. Oval base, flier, one unit getting updated, one plastic monopose character, some finecast monopose characters.

Frankly, I don't like the creep in big units, I prefer 40k to be about infantry, tanks, with the big units reserved to being rare or in Apoc. I know fantasy went this route as a kind of affordability thing; you get a lot more points out of the big things, and have to spend less on hordes of dudes to get effective units, but 40k doesn't have the same problem...unless you're guard, orks or nids, but we know that going into those armies. And since 40k is still primarily about the footsloggers and general use vehicles (no matter what giant monster they come out with, there'll always be lots of "normal" units, especially since 6th is so objective heavy) I get frustrated when those units you're going to use and see are often old, unattractive or finecrap.

What do I want most for my guard? Veterans and re-done plastic infantry. For my marines? Plastic, modular Stern/Vanguard and updated Tactical Marines. Those are the things I'm going to use and field the most, and are probably some of the worst looking things in their respective lines, or have other problems (super-customizable wargear for Stern/Vanguard, monopose resin kits...) Giant monsters, kind of go against the grain of 40k for me; the new units are nice and all, but I'd like to see GW apply more of their obvious talents with plastic to stuff from the 90s when they didn't have anywhere near as much talent.

Ignoring what needs to be updated in favour of stuff which wasn't wholly necessary or goes against the grain of 40k is bland and boring, and ultimately, disappointing to me. The codexes themselves are great; balanced, flexible, creative (Chaos was a bit of a letdown, helturkey reliance and all, no Legions, but still flexible and fun), but there's a lot of missed marks in models for me.

I'm loving the faster paced updates, I just want Sisters updated.

Regardless of the pace, I am finding myself more dissatisfied than ever with the fantasy army books and 40k core rules. The fantasy demon book has terrible internal balance where you are shoehorned into playing nurgle and there is just no point in playing tzeentch.

I really think the wraithknight and riptide are models that are too large for 40k. The 40k core rules I find to be awkward and clumsy and this is the first time I think an updated 40k rule set is less desirable than the previous set.

JWhex wrote:Regardless of the pace, I am finding myself more dissatisfied than ever with the fantasy army books and 40k core rules. The fantasy demon book has terrible internal balance where you are shoehorned into playing nurgle and there is just no point in playing tzeentch.

I really think the wraithknight and riptide are models that are too large for 40k. The 40k core rules I find to be awkward and clumsy and this is the first time I think an updated 40k rule set is less desirable than the previous set.

I can definately see your point, the flyer bases are very awkward in a game of 40k. As well as that 40k isnt about the large gribbly monsters that want to eat you (or do worse) its more about the squads and leaders.
However i do disagree about the codexes. On the whole they have been very balanced, and this will hopefully lead to a wider range of armies being played. I know that the daemon codex was the worst out of the 6ed stuff, due to the randomness of it and the fact that your can potentially worsen your troops. As well as that dark angels codex was a bit messy (it had a large errata which was released three days after the codex) but still it is well bablanced and generally liked. I havent had any experience with the fantasy daemon book though

conker249 wrote:I'm loving the faster paced updates, I just want Sisters updated.

Well someones going to bit waiting a long time.

Just because they are putting out more stuff than before doesn't mean you have to buy it. I like having more choices, and to be honest, I thought the new Tau stuff was pretty cool.

I will admit, however, that I am really disappointed that White Dwarf feels more like a monthly catalogue anymore.

I understand where you are coming from though. Look at what happened to Madden or Call of Duty. It feels like the same game every year with different guns and maps.

 FenWulf29 wrote:

JWhex wrote:Regardless of the pace, I am finding myself more dissatisfied than ever with the fantasy army books and 40k core rules. The fantasy demon book has terrible internal balance where you are shoehorned into playing nurgle and there is just no point in playing tzeentch.

I really think the wraithknight and riptide are models that are too large for 40k. The 40k core rules I find to be awkward and clumsy and this is the first time I think an updated 40k rule set is less desirable than the previous set.

I can definately see your point, the flyer bases are very awkward in a game of 40k. As well as that 40k isnt about the large gribbly monsters that want to eat you (or do worse) its more about the squads and leaders.
However i do disagree about the codexes. On the whole they have been very balanced, and this will hopefully lead to a wider range of armies being played. I know that the daemon codex was the worst out of the 6ed stuff, due to the randomness of it and the fact that your can potentially worsen your troops. As well as that dark angels codex was a bit messy (it had a large errata which was released three days after the codex) but still it is well bablanced and generally liked. I havent had any experience with the fantasy daemon book though

conker249 wrote:I'm loving the faster paced updates, I just want Sisters updated.

Well someones going to bit waiting a long time.

not too worried over that.

 BryllCream wrote:
I don't see how the flying eagle is conceptually difficult. Imagine the carriage + rider are weightless and they're dragged along by the eagle, where the charector with his long spear can lance enemies. The eagle is flying at ground height so it would not be that different from a normal chariot.

That's not to say that it still doesn't look clunky and frankly a bit bizarre.

That's where it gets difficult to understand.

If Orks are next, I hope they do a giant Squiggoth like in Dawn Of War. That would be nice...

[quote=Tappers 529359 5669495 423253ca67c3a1ae115af9934ce0c384.png
If Orks are next, I hope they do a giant Squiggoth like in Dawn Of War. That would be nice...

Like this?

Or is there a bigger one I'm not aware of?

Yeah this one is the one - but do you know what an orkeasaurus is? I saw an epic version of this and looked even bigger than the epic squiggoth.

Also fluff wise - why isnt a squiggoth red?

 Kroothawk wrote:
Personally I think the Rogue Trader Warlocks look better than the new Spiritseer (look at the missing folds of the cloth).

I'd really love to see the new Surfin' Spiritseer on something like this. He's got the perfect pose for it

 FenWulf29 wrote:
Yeah this one is the one - but do you know what an orkeasaurus is? I saw an epic version of this and looked even bigger than the epic squiggoth.

Also fluff wise - why isnt a squiggoth red?

I think it is technically more closely related to an ork than a squig.

I don't think 'bland' is the correct descriptor in this circumstance.

'Formulaic' is a far better way to look at it. When you have someone new to any GW product or wargames in general it will hardly be bland, but when viewed over a longer period it does become the same rinse-repeat cycle.

With Eldar you have bright colours and bold differences in design between the aspects, but those lines are starting to blur with the new aesthetic which rather than tying everything into a theme just blurs them together into a mess of books, swords, skull, spirit stones or other rather meaningless simplification of their heritage. This is why I am not a massive fan of dual-aspect plastic kits, because the saturation of these over-simplified symbols will lead them into the same territory as Grey Knights ("oh look, another book with a sword, and this book has skulls in it!") and blend the two relevant aspect types rather than accentuate them as individual items.

 azreal13 wrote:


Like this?

Or is there a bigger one I'm not aware of?

That's the largest available at the moment, for the low low price of £230.
If they release a plastic one I will be both very happy and very annoyed. Happy because I get to use a gargantuan Squiggoth in my army, annoyed because I've spent all of my free time over the past two weeks making a mechanical one out of plasticard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FenWulf29 wrote:
Yeah this one is the one - but do you know what an orkeasaurus is? I saw an epic version of this and looked even bigger than the epic squiggoth.

Also fluff wise - why isnt a squiggoth red?

The question there is more "Why aren't Squigs green?" All the beasts in an ork army are "Orkoid" meaning they're fungal, and generally large, green and angry. The Squig is an exception, as its still angry, but it's small and red instead.

I don't get all the hate to keeping things similar. Like look at an actual army. All of the tanks look similar, same design pattern, all the planes look similar. Some boats are bigger than others but they still look the same.

Now the idea of adding more troops would have been nice. But FFS people you can't get everything. There is not a single problem with the new tau riptide. Or the wraith knight. That seems to be pretty much the lore of the armies. Nothing needed to change, they didn't need to introduce some new giant ethereal to lead the tau.

Also for the fliers. Dark eldar is just a split faction of eldar (or the other way around or something). So why wouldn't they have similar flier technology. Like honestly why complain about this stuff, I would rather have a new book that makes the game playable than fancy new models.

The thing that makes them bland to me is not that they look the same as other things, but that they amped up the cartoony big time over the last couple of years. GW has always had a cartoony/childish aesthetic, but lately it's been even more exaggerated.

 FenWulf29 wrote:
I can definately see your point, the flyer bases are very awkward in a game of 40k. As well as that 40k isnt about the large gribbly monsters that want to eat you (or do worse) its more about the squads and leaders.

Unless it's Tyranids, which is all about gribbly monsters that want to eat you (literally).