Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

You will take what is given!
You will not complain about scale!!
You will not offer input on models!!!
*PSST, this is not GW*
Ohhh...
Uhhh...
Carry on then!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

On topic. One of the guys in the comments did this work up. Reduced breast size... upgraded to 30.5mm to better proportion the mini. shrunk head a bit (i think he may be a witchdoctor but not sure) anyway I think it hits much more on the mark to the concepts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maybe they could take that proportion and just shrink it back to 28mm

Now, that's a shock trooper! It looks a better than the original.

Personally, I prefer the 28mm one. Body armor that bulky should result in a profile that is a little broader than an unarmored one. The 30mm profile is too tall and thin for my tastes. If they go with the taller, skinnier one, I think I'd reconsider whether or not to get any of the Heavy Troopers with my order.

 Ouze wrote:
I also have some model feedback I'd like a herald to relay, if they'd be so kind.

While I like the aesthetics, I think the usability as gaming pieces can be somewhat improved by providing a smooth surface on one of the shoulderpads for the Kurganovas & Iron Empire. This would allow for you to put a waterslide decal or freehand of a squad designation for use on the tabletop.

I, uh, think that's what they were going for with the chest plate.

Honestly I would take them either way as I personally think both directions would look pretty good.
What has me wanting them to go in the direction of the taller one is the fact that the short one is not bulky because of armor its bulky because she has no stomach which makes her look squat.
The proportions of the taller one accounts for the fact she has a stomach. which all woman actually have (its where babies come from )

I prefer the 30.5mm it has proper 1/3/3 proportions, instead of 1/2/3 however you spin it the 28mm has a small middle body.

Are we all assuming her body armor is paper thin? I assumed it was thick. Like, body armor thick. I mean, when I look at cops wearing riot armor, female cops I mean, the armor tends to make them look more squat and bulky. Far more like the first figure, to my eye, than the second one.

I might change my mind entirely if you placed it next to regular people and it looked okay, but RH claims that the 28 mm ones scale with regular GW figs. Which means the 30mm one, put next to a regular Guardsman, would look like a freakishly tall amazon, unless I'm missing something. (New daddy brain...no sleep...entirely possible.)

Glad to see my graphic made it over here. And no, I'm not a witch doctor....yet.

The thing that irks me about 28mm scale, coupled with heroic proportions, is that the models have no cores, just legs, a chest, arms, and a head.

GW does it, Warlord does it for their WW2 plastics...it's like the sculptors decided since a weapon will be held across the model's torso, it becomes a substitute for including an abdomen. Legs and arms stay the same length proportionately to each other, but the torso and often times the neck are shortened considerably., resulting in bobble headed, stunty models with oversized extremeties, when in reality the model just needs a stomach and lower back.

Imagine cutting the entire Lumbar system of the spine from a normal person, and moving their belly button to just below their sternum....

~iPaint

Well, I'm not one to try and fight the tide. I went and flipped through the photo album for the local police department just to make sure that I wasn't on crack, and I still maintain my opinion. (30mm fig looks Barbie doll tall and skinny to me. The 28mm fig looks right, but only given that she's wearing bulky body armor.) Unfortunately, I haven't seen a single other comment, here or on the KS itself, that seems to agree with me. Which is fine, I'm not going to be in the majority on every visual decision. Still, I hope that the RH team can find a happy medium, something that can satisfy me as well as the people who want more belly.

@Jim: I'd say the opposite. The 28mm one is too leggy, making her look more like a fashion sketch or Bayonetta than a real person. Even if she was going to be as bulky as the 28mm one, her torso should be a bit longer and her legs a bit shorter.

 keltikhoa wrote:
You will take what is given!
You will not complain about scale!!
You will not offer input on models!!!
*PSST, this is not GW*
Ohhh...
Uhhh...
Carry on then!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

On topic. One of the guys in the comments did this work up. Reduced breast size... upgraded to 30.5mm to better proportion the mini. shrunk head a bit (i think he may be a witchdoctor but not sure) anyway I think it hits much more on the mark to the concepts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maybe they could take that proportion and just shrink it back to 28mm

Now that would see me keeping my money in for sure!

I like the slightly taller one with the flatter chestplate more.

I'd put both into my Guard, but Raging are going to have to make a call about this and soon, as voices are rumbling in the comments section.

This might be the toughest decision they've faced since it began, as it seems they are in a 'can't please everyone' scenario. Maybe they can pull a rabbit out of the hat, but they'll need to respond to the concerns sooner than later.

I'd anticipate more formal word next update, but the answer for now as passed to us is "We are listening to your feed back and these are work in progress"

To use the ol' Dakka KS cliché for a second, if they feth this up and go to more than 28mm then I will withdraw my pledge. I mean, we talked about it and talked about it to the point where Kroothawk threatened to put a link in his sig to where RH said they would not mess up the scale and even got multiple assurances from RH that they would stick with the right scale. They change it now and I'm out.

The amusing thing that I kept copping gak about is that I was worried they'd go too small earlier - and apparently, I wasn't alone, who'da thunk it? Now apparently there's a push to go Dystopian Wars in scale..

Yeah 'cause Dystopian Wars certainly set the world ablaze when we realised how huge their models are.

I don't mind if they keep the size of the minis the same, it's just the proportions that need the change. Infinity minis are around 28mm in scale, but they still manage to keep the right proportions.

That said, I don't care what the actual scale is, but if they go with the original heroic proportions, I'm out.

Here's some rough photo-shop hack and slash, trying to get my head around scale and proportions, hope this helps. Though probably not very accurate as we don't yet know what the prints will look like yet, or how much shrinkage/compression will occur depending on the casting material.
The RH commissar next to the space marine is taken from the scale comparison shot posted on pg. 3 of this thread.

I've always liked this post, and how it shows the inherent flaw that is 28mm heroic scale (particularly for GW, which seems to be the ruler by which every miniature close in size is measured by):

http://wfarcadia.blogspot.com/2012/01/matter-of-scalepart-1.html

28mm has no base measurement that we can scale things from. It's too vague...28mm to eyes? Top of head?

Scales are set. 1/35 scale, 1/72, 1/300, etc, of course allowing slight variations for human heights. But equipment would not vary much, if at all.

Infinity is a good example of miniatures that are designed near 1/56 scale. They vary between what many people call "True 28mm" and somewhere near the lower side of 32mm, or around 1/56 to 1/52 range.

~iPaint

(On a side note, I didn't think I'd cause this much commotion from a single image, but it's nice that we can have discussions about it.)

Edit: vic, excellent comparison, shows how daft GW is with their chunky models. I think their Eldar and Dark Eldar are probably the only models I'd consider near to proportionate any more, or they were last time I checked.

Heroic scale is a relic of an era where it was difficult to sculpt/cast more detailed miniatures with defining characteristics. With the technology we have now, it should be long gone.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Well, I'm not one to try and fight the tide. I went and flipped through the photo album for the local police department just to make sure that I wasn't on crack, and I still maintain my opinion. (30mm fig looks Barbie doll tall and skinny to me. The 28mm fig looks right, but only given that she's wearing bulky body armor.) Unfortunately, I haven't seen a single other comment, here or on the KS itself, that seems to agree with me. Which is fine, I'm not going to be in the majority on every visual decision. Still, I hope that the RH team can find a happy medium, something that can satisfy me as well as the people who want more belly.

No, you're not alone. I was worried that these models would be skinny with stupidly long and thin legs and would look wrong next to 40K models. But these renders are perfect. I really hope they don't change them.

Tje adjusted 30,5mm looks hell of a lot better!

 Fafnir wrote:
Heroic scale is a relic of an era where it was difficult to sculpt/cast more detailed miniatures with defining characteristics. With the technology we have now, it should be long gone.

Ultimately though, RH is just one of many small companies that make their living by being compatible with the big dog on the block. The "truer" your true-scale, the farther into the niche you go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Some additionally useful images might be comparing some of the RH renders and existing Kurganovas to some Dark Eldar, along with the inevitable Imperial Guard and Space Marines...

I like the proportions of the 'extended' tweak, but would much rather see it in 28mm.

Blondie is unlocked finally! Her and Burnadette drew me in to start with so now I'm happy. I do prefer the look of the 30.5's but I do think the 28's are a million times better than the GW gorilla bobble men, however I have a FW BA army in the works and I need them to look shorter than them.

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
This might be the toughest decision they've faced since it began, as it seems they are in a 'can't please everyone' scenario.

Eh, I like either one. I like the slightly taller one with the flatter chestplate more, but neither one is a deal killer for me. Truthfully I just want the flatter chestplate, it looks a little less ridiculous. But either one will work for me in the end.

Woo! Nice steady progress folks! Couple updates a day keeps us all at play? Or something to that effect?

Yes, I do think!

That, plus the now smaller stretch goal gap interval give this one some momentum, plus the always welcome "What's Next?" factor.

Pretty sure I read somewhere the heroines were going to be a little taller.

Still One shot Blondie is unlocked, I imagine a lot of people are very happy!