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"KS prices"? What?

I have it on good authority that these models are too expensive for anyone who would actually use them.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Personally, out of the Sisters KS, I just want models that look like they could be fielded alongside GW Sisters and not look weird, while still maintaining the high detail and quality of the Raging Heroes minis I've seen so far. (At KS prices, lol!)

So what are YOU guys expecting out of the next KS? (And just to get it out of the way, "Poor communication!" "Production delays!" "No updates!" "Pigeon toes!" "80% deliciousness!" There. I think that covers them all. )

I abstained from TGG in favor of Sisters so I only briefly followed the KS while it was going on and, afterward, seldomly checked this thread. My expectation is that it's run very close to how TGG was run, maybe a little better defined pledge tiers at the start.

But I hope for more.
• Structured much better than TGG in reward tiers, stretch goals, and reserved timeslots for manufacturing. There was a lot of floundering during the TGG KS on what the hell you were pledging for and the overtly arbitrary goals for unlocks.
• Streamlined production to fulfillment resulting in a quicker turn around. Not quite the same thing as "Production delays!"
• Neat, fun figures loosely based on the little sister and Sister Benedron pictured below.

I added this to the KS update comments:

I can't say I'm overly fond of the huge boots on the Davidians, though. They really seem out of place with the rest of the models. Why not knee/shin-high boots wrapped in the parchment/scrolls like the rest of the "armor?" Could allow for some fancy lace-work up the front or sides, as well as expanding on the wing motif a bit.

Seems there's too much going on with the model below the knees, really detracts from the overall appearance and theme (bogus ham-fisted lore aside - if it destroys armor, why does the middle figure have a powered gauntlet??? Or is that magically safe from their swords too? Gah!).

~iPaint

 Jimsolo wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
Why are they all nearly naked...and wearing Gears of War boots....

The Vow of Poverty has a loophole for chainsaws and mecha boots.

Here's a question. I kind of took it for a given that the Space Nuns and Dark Elf lines would both be much more fetishistic than the TGG. Am I the odd man out? I mean, Sisters of Battle and Dark Eldar are already pandering to some fetish markets already, (light S&M, chicks with guns, etc) so I just naturally assumed that third party miniatures aimed at that niche would probably do the same. Were other people expecting something different?

Which I suppose brings me to another (related) point. What are people expecting out of the next KS? Since it seemed like there was a wide variety of expectations on this one, I'm curious as to whether or not there is a consensus from the community from what they want.

Personally, out of the Sisters KS, I just want models that look like they could be fielded alongside GW Sisters and not look weird, while still maintaining the high detail and quality of the Raging Heroes minis I've seen so far. (At KS prices, lol!)

So what are YOU guys expecting out of the next KS? (And just to get it out of the way, "Poor communication!" "Production delays!" "No updates!" "Pigeon toes!" "80% deliciousness!" There. I think that covers them all. )

I don't know about everyone else, but I'm expecting the same thing. A kickstarter I sink waaaay too much money in so I can wait waaaaaay to long to arrive for miniatures I do not have time to paint. However I'm also expecting lots of hot girls in weird nun fetish gear carrying ridiculous weapons that are even more way over the top than the last KS. Plus as a bonus a brand new 180 page thread on dakka to pass the time while I wait. Its gonna be a good year


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrookM wrote:
Yeah, why are they wearing those big ass Mario movie boots?

To better stomp a mudhole in you sir

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stomp+a+mudhole

 Jimsolo wrote:
Here's a question. I kind of took it for a given that the Space Nuns and Dark Elf lines would both be much more fetishistic than the TGG. Am I the odd man out? I mean, Sisters of Battle and Dark Eldar are already pandering to some fetish markets already, (light S&M, chicks with guns, etc) so I just naturally assumed that third party miniatures aimed at that niche would probably do the same. Were other people expecting something different?

I'm perfectly fine with them hitting someone's kink - it would be hard not to when something as simple as "a woman with a rifle" qualifies. Just don't suck at it. Pigeon toes means you suck at it.

My personal conceit for not!Sisters is much more restrained - a religious not-for-profit organisation as a peacekeeping force ("the Salvation Army with an army"), with sonic and microwave weapons and Repressor-esque riot vehicles - but I knew that that wasn't what they were going for.

Which I suppose brings me to another (related) point. What are people expecting out of the next KS? Since it seemed like there was a wide variety of expectations on this one, I'm curious as to whether or not there is a consensus from the community from what they want.

What I want is at least one High Impact Polystyrene kit per faction, so I can go and buy 50 basic grunts for $100 instead of for $200 and without worrying that whatever restic they use will be full of holes, or melt in the Australian sun, or be carelessly torn off the sprues, or shrink, or any one of the problems that do not exist for this tried and tested material.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
Here's a question. I kind of took it for a given that the Space Nuns and Dark Elf lines would both be much more fetishistic than the TGG. Am I the odd man out? I mean, Sisters of Battle and Dark Eldar are already pandering to some fetish markets already, (light S&M, chicks with guns, etc) so I just naturally assumed that third party miniatures aimed at that niche would probably do the same. Were other people expecting something different?

I'm perfectly fine with them hitting someone's kink - it would be hard not to when something as simple as "a woman with a rifle" qualifies. Just don't suck at it. Pigeon toes means you suck at it.

My personal conceit for not!Sisters is much more restrained - a religious not-for-profit organisation as a peacekeeping force ("the Salvation Army with an army"), with sonic and microwave weapons and Repressor-esque riot vehicles - but I knew that that wasn't what they were going for.

Which I suppose brings me to another (related) point. What are people expecting out of the next KS? Since it seemed like there was a wide variety of expectations on this one, I'm curious as to whether or not there is a consensus from the community from what they want.

What I want is at least one High Impact Polystyrene kit per faction, so I can go and buy 50 basic grunts for $100 instead of for $200 and without worrying that whatever restic they use will be full of holes, or melt in the Australian sun, or be carelessly torn off the sprues, or shrink, or any one of the problems that do not exist for this tried and tested material.

You ask..... TOO MUCH.

As far as the pigeon toes goes, it looks like the majority of figures that were shown to be pigeon toed in the concept art have been 'fixed' during sculpting. (Most notably among the troops.)

 Jimsolo wrote:
As far as the pigeon toes goes, it looks like the majority of figures that were shown to be pigeon toed in the concept art have been 'fixed' during sculpting. (Most notably among the troops.)

You don't know that, because we're not getting them. They might yet again change them back to pigeony-goodness.

In theme with RH's massive updates, here's my reply to the last week's worth of posts.

 Jimsolo wrote:

Not trying to be contrary, just curious: do you still buy GW product? I only ask because I feel like RH cares WAY more about our opinions and our patronage than GW does. (Really, not trying to start something, just honestly curious. Have you reached the point of frustration where you are only paying out your money to companies that you think are listening to your opinions, or is it that you felt like there was going to be more input with RH and have become disillusioned?)

I know you weren't asking me, but I don't really feel that either of the two companies cares that much. RH only seem to like fawning, positive feedback, and get a bit upset at anything but. GW, as we know, are big enough to not really give a gak.

 AlexHolker wrote:
Stop trying to put words in my mouth, Azazel, because you fething suck at it.

My argument is and always has been that the cost of entry should be low enough that someone can build a "pauper" army of the cheap stuff to serve as the foundation for a more refined army later. It does not mean that you should jack up the cost of entry of other armies just because.

If you simply don't have the funds to afford HIPS, that's fine. I have no beef with Vic or Mad Robot for that. But if you spend three bloody months being a cocktease before you admit that your prices are going to be gak, and you've got the million dollars and the time to do things right, I'm going to think less of you for settling for the mediocrity of an expensive and completely untested material like the latest flavour of restic.

/facepalm.
RH have never been and never will be a company that caters to "pauper" armies of the cheap stuff. It's not their gig. You're just endlessly screaming into the wind if you think otherwise. Going on and on and on about the $ cost of "a 5 point model" from a third party is to miss the point of what most companies actually produce, and especially one like RH.

Do I think they could do better? Of course I do. But look at it this way - Mantic, who despite endless (and often justified) criticism, have their production gak together in a way that RH probably never will (Would you trust RH to organise a root in a brothel? I wouldn't!), still can't manage to get decent stuff produced in HIPS - and maybe, just maybe, might have something like that by the end of this year, despite several years playing with KS dollars. RH also got just under $700k, which after Ama-KS' cut works out to be about $630k - closer to half a million than a million, and they have a feth load of figures to produce besides the basic troopers - especially since they decided to go with three factions at once. Would I like it if they got something like DFG-Mark's project going for HIPS troops? Of course I would, but that's not happening here, so maybe you should finally "get" that RH are not the cheap models you're looking for and will probably never will be, and RH are under no obligation to produce exactly what you're asking for. And while it would be great if they got Renedra or WGF to produce some HIPS troops for cheap, I probably wouldn't kickstart the project, either at this stage.

I'll be skipping their troopers as well, at the very least until their reviews are out. I've been burnt enough by gakky restic myself to not risk money on the stuff.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Because you want HIPS it does not mean they want, it does not mean the product can be serviced with HIPS and of course it does not mean they feel the urge to contract a Chinese factory to do their work.

Also you base your price assumptions as proxy for GW games, why should they be priced like that? because you want it?

You're correct on both counts.

 BrookM wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
Now please stop making me defend RH. It's making me feel dirty.

Dirty? I thought playing the white knight would be..

When RH is involved, it can be ....correct on both counts.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:

You may have a point. I feel spoiled by Dreamforge and Paulson Games. Both have asked for opinions and feedback by showing WIPs, or downright responding to personal emails and incorporating ideas. They may have coloured my impression of how to do business. Then again, my wife says that I am her "consumate salesman" at work and custom framing is eminently a feedback-based product. I don't feel that GW responds or cares much about customer feedback or community input. And to answer your question, no I don't send money GW's way much these days. I'm trying to get rid of my Space Marines, I have a fully proxy'd Astra Militarum army in the works, I even use other minis for their RPGs. I might buy, ironically, rulebooks, just because my gaming group is still very skittish about other game systems. GW doesn't go crowd-funding, however. Maybe I see it as a gentlemen's agreement: You get my money, but you be a good sport about making me feel implicated in the process. Unspoken, but no less extant.

The thing to remember is that DFG and Paulson are essentially garage companies. DFG has ties to WGF, but it's still a one-man operation. Custom framing, (or custom anything) is, by it's nature, a person-to-person level of business based on individual needs, wants and satisfaction. GW is a very large company, and simply could never offer that level of individual care or be able to take on feedback that Vic or DFG etc do in regards to their design process. It's a small company by many standards, but they're still a large corporation with branches in many companies. When my local GW retail outlet (before it got moved and 1-manned) had more employees than Victoria Miniatures, Paulson Games and Dreamforge Games combined then it's pretty clear that we're talking about vastly different economies of scale.

RH is an outlier, though - and that's because they're sized more like the former. I think they take criticism to heart, though - but are hurt by it. Hence they've retreated somewhat and now stay behind their moat and walls.

 cincydooley wrote:
I mean, I'll buy gak from them retail, but jesus. As if people weren't already enabling their irresponsible business model!

It's pretty easy to have your desires enabled if you only listen to the people telling you what you want to hear and stick your fingers in your ears for the others...

Still, I'm glad the troops got bumped back to subsequent waves. I'll cash out with spincast characters in Wave 1.

 Buzzsaw wrote:
I think it was Alph that mentioned the pigeon toed look: dayum, Mortaria is...



That's a little coquettish for a master assassin.

Alph and a dozen of the rest of us to boot!

Her knees are wrong. They should be more like these:

Awesome post Az.

Seconded!

I'm glad he stuck it out and kept his pledge in on this one!

Actually, I did both. My original pledge was in the $400 range. I pulled my pledge down to the $150-ish one.

I did the same, just lose a zero at the end of those amounts.

My pledges were also very similar, if you divided yours by 10000 and then rounded to the nearest whole number.

 BrookM wrote:
I did the same, just lose a zero at the end of those amounts.

When I first read your post, I misread it as add a zero.

 Azazelx wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
I did the same, just lose a zero at the end of those amounts.

When I first read your post, I misread it as add a zero.

I may be a tasteless and deranged fool, but even I have my limits when it comes to indulging divas!

What do you folks think of the unhelmeted heads revealed in the last update?
I'm mostly interested in the iron empire ones, I like most of them but I'm not fond of lieutenant drakkan's bionic parts If you wanted the inhuman look you'd go for the helmeted head.
Then again she's the only one of them who has bionics, and the faction is supposed to be big on bionics, now I don't mind because I find that it's easier to add bionics than removing them but is anyone disappointed in this?

 TheDungen wrote:
What do you folks think of the unhelmeted heads revealed in the last update?
I'm mostly interested in the iron empire ones, I like most of them but I'm not fond of lieutenant drakkan's bionic parts If you wanted the inhuman look you'd go for the helmeted head.
Then again she's the only one of them who has bionics, and the faction is supposed to be big on bionics, now I don't mind because I find that it's easier to add bionics than removing them but is anyone disappointed in this?

I think the unhelmeted heads look good, but in my opinion, the whole look of the Iron Empire benefits greatly from the helmets (Drakken, I think particularly needs the helmet). I'm going all IE, and am definitely going with all helmets. Like I said, the bare heads look good, but not as good as the helmeted ones. In my opinion, of course.

The Iron Empire is supposed to be made up of mostly deformed ladies right, because of some genetic defect that also made them infertile, right? I can't quite remember the fluff, but it was something along those lines, the ugly ones had to cover their faces and fight the wars while the pretty ones were the only fertile ones and thus, breeders, or something like that. I think the standard bearer was supposed to be the only "normal" one who decided to hide her face and fight as well.

That fluff is so empowering. It's what I'd want my daughter to read.

Mind, could be misremembering it, but that's what I remember the most about the Iron Empire. Though as with the not-Ratlings Lulu's, things can be rewritten.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
That fluff is so empowering. It's what I'd want my daughter to read.

If you're looking for female empowerment in miniature gaming, you're going to have a bad time.

And that's why Victoria Miniatures is going to get a lot of money from a lot of us this year.

Em they are a semi undead faction actually, the deformed ones are the undead, who coexist with the living.

Ahhh, okay, thanks!

And it's not like undead means deformed, the reason for the clothes is as follows:
"Indeed, one of the main reason most of the Iron Empire citizens always wear a respiratory mask, glasses or full helmet is as a form of social respect and politeness between the living and the undead, as the latter have no breath and a sometimes hollow gaze."

Vera Krabbenhöft is just in disguise, saying she is a disfigured undead but that an undead is like that is not the rule.

Again, ahhhh.

 Azazelx wrote:

snip

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:

You may have a point. I feel spoiled by Dreamforge and Paulson Games. Both have asked for opinions and feedback by showing WIPs, or downright responding to personal emails and incorporating ideas. They may have coloured my impression of how to do business. Then again, my wife says that I am her "consumate salesman" at work and custom framing is eminently a feedback-based product. I don't feel that GW responds or cares much about customer feedback or community input. And to answer your question, no I don't send money GW's way much these days. I'm trying to get rid of my Space Marines, I have a fully proxy'd Astra Militarum army in the works, I even use other minis for their RPGs. I might buy, ironically, rulebooks, just because my gaming group is still very skittish about other game systems. GW doesn't go crowd-funding, however. Maybe I see it as a gentlemen's agreement: You get my money, but you be a good sport about making me feel implicated in the process. Unspoken, but no less extant.

The thing to remember is that DFG and Paulson are essentially garage companies. DFG has ties to WGF, but it's still a one-man operation. Custom framing, (or custom anything) is, by it's nature, a person-to-person level of business based on individual needs, wants and satisfaction. GW is a very large company, and simply could never offer that level of individual care or be able to take on feedback that Vic or DFG etc do in regards to their design process. It's a small company by many standards, but they're still a large corporation with branches in many companies. When my local GW retail outlet (before it got moved and 1-manned) had more employees than Victoria Miniatures, Paulson Games and Dreamforge Games combined then it's pretty clear that we're talking about vastly different economies of scale.

RH is an outlier, though - and that's because they're sized more like the former. I think they take criticism to heart, though - but are hurt by it. Hence they've retreated somewhat and now stay behind their moat and walls.

snip

It's pretty easy to have your desires enabled if you only listen to the people telling you what you want to hear and stick your fingers in your ears for the others...

Still, I'm glad the troops got bumped back to subsequent waves. I'll cash out with spincast characters in Wave 1.

snip

I agree with everything you said about the difference between GW and DFG/Paulson, but I still feel spoiled. It's nice to have companies, even garage ones, take in feedback and care about creating a community. Especially since they are garage companies, their resources are stretched even thinner, so it would be understandeable if they didn't take the time to do so. Like GW used to do. I still feel that RH would be the big winner here by fostering a lively community. Even one where opinions differ. Especially since they told us they got someone on the team just to handle media and customer relations.

I'm curious how you'll cash out without getting multiples. So far, between my co-pledge and I, we are getting a grand total of 2 minis from wave 1. 1 Yoko (me) and 1 Bernadette (him). Good thing we have a dropship, because otherwise I'd tell him to stuff it and wait.

 TheDungen wrote:
What do you folks think of the unhelmeted heads revealed in the last update?
I'm mostly interested in the iron empire ones, I like most of them but I'm not fond of lieutenant drakkan's bionic parts If you wanted the inhuman look you'd go for the helmeted head.
Then again she's the only one of them who has bionics, and the faction is supposed to be big on bionics, now I don't mind because I find that it's easier to add bionics than removing them but is anyone disappointed in this?

I like the unhelmeted heads very much. The unscarred faces might be contrary to RH's fluff, but for people like me who don't care one iota for RH's fluff and just want some cool models to use in a variety of games, they make the models far, far more flexible. For example, I could now see my wife wanting to use one of them as her character in the RT campaign that I really need to get off the ground.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:

I agree with everything you said about the difference between GW and DFG/Paulson, but I still feel spoiled. It's nice to have companies, even garage ones, take in feedback and care about creating a community. Especially since they are garage companies, their resources are stretched even thinner, so it would be understandeable if they didn't take the time to do so. Like GW used to do. I still feel that RH would be the big winner here by fostering a lively community. Even one where opinions differ. Especially since they told us they got someone on the team just to handle media and customer relations.

I'm curious how you'll cash out without getting multiples. So far, between my co-pledge and I, we are getting a grand total of 2 minis from wave 1. 1 Yoko (me) and 1 Bernadette (him). Good thing we have a dropship, because otherwise I'd tell him to stuff it and wait.

I don't disagree with you on the community thing as far as RH is concerned, but they're choosing not to do that, and it's to their detriment. I guess they're just too sensitive.

I have no idea what's actually going to be in Wave 1, but didn't they just say that they will be doing more characters and fewer troops?

 BrookM wrote:
Mind, could be misremembering it, but that's what I remember the most about the Iron Empire. Though as with the not-Ratlings Lulu's, things can be rewritten.

I really hope the males of the faction have something similar going on, but where the fertile men are all short, fat bald guys with glasses.