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While it would be nice to have lots of supplements there are only a few that really need doing. Iyanden is one of them because its more than just wraithguard as troops.

Blood Axe, Farsight Enclave and Alpha Legion all pretty much top my list, each because of its separatist nature and links to human groups.

The other notable addition for different reasons is the Deathwatch, because it needs doing and probably otherwise wont be.

I think supplements have a place. I think the move of GW lately has been to find pieces from the olden days that worked and promoted growth. Returning to their roots in a sense.

Iyanden has possibilities because of its uniqueness among craft worlds. Rule possibilities include Hatred:Tyranids, Eldritch raiders (as a guardian upgrade like the CSM zombie cultists). The could take a page out of FW book and expand heavy slots in the FOC. With wraiths as troops you don't really need as many Elite slots. WLords and WKnights get access to flak missiles? Easy changes that could make Wraith armies more intriguing.

Bonuses for DE allies thanks to the assistance of the Kabal of the Wraithkind?

I'm interested.

I would really like to see some Chaos Legion stuff.

Word Bearers Go!

Mr.Church13 wrote:

 Flood wrote:
Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult ... ad infinitum

Yup because what Nid army can't use a bunch of machine guns mounted on limos.

I'm all for cults, but they definitely need a brand new look that is completely unrecognisable from their past.


In defense of the Iyanden suppliment. That's my brand of Eldar so I couldn't be more excited for any book based on them. I hated the Eldar Codex before release, but now looking at it as a whole I admit I was wrong it's not the greatest thing ever but it's miles better than what we had and that gives me hope for this, $50.00 be dammned, I'll buy it.

If marines can be mounted on wolves then nids can sure as hell have machine guns mounted on limos.

 SickSix wrote:
I do think charging as much as the main codex is bollucks. So Iyanden players pay twice what regular space elf players pay to field there armies.

BT players should accept what is coming.

I would love a Kroot mercenaries book. But if it requires Tau to play it should not cost the same.

Codex is $49.99 USD and the Expansion is $39.99 and comes with the Altar of War stuff for Iyanden which is another $7.99 normally if you were buying the codex. So realistically you're paying $32 USD for the expansion, $7.99 for the Altar of War missions and still coming in $10 cheaper than the codex.

So no, not the same cost.

are there any actual rules in this codex? or is it just set up to fleece unsuspecting players?

Y'know, with information that could get on lexicanum or 40kwiki

Check out OP.

Something of interest...

Ibook store has the release date at June 8th.

The physical books aren't on sale till June 15th.

How I see it, I know this Iyanden supplement still requires the main codex, which I think is the inherit flaw. Seriously, you can have codex space marines along with their sub-armies like blood angels, space wolves, dark angels, and black templars, who are all apparently unique and can use their own codex, but Iyanden has to be a supplement and use the main rule book.

Come on GW, I'll admit I support them more than most, but they could honestly come out with a codex Iyanden that is self-contained and doesn't require the Eldar codex and I would gladly pay $50 for that. But it seems pretty clear that it is not meant to be on its own and therefore loses my purchase. Overall though, I would love to see more supplements for factions that really are sub-armies to main forces such as Kroot Auxiliary or Mechanicum or even Traitor Legions. At least something to give more variety to other armies compared to spess mahreens.

Even if the rules in this 'codex' are much more extensive than we're expecting, I think this book is a fairly transparent attempt to drive sales of Wraithknights and Wraithguard. GW makes rules to sell model kits. Unless GW have big model releases planned for Genestealer Cults or Thousand Sons, I wouldn't put any money on seeing supplements for them. I reckon any further supplements we see will be in the same vein as this one - Codex: Please buy more of our latest gigantic model kits.

I think we'd all be far happier if this release had been Codex Eldar and then two weeks later Codex: Eldar Craftworlds, with rules for all the major craftworlds. Who wants 7 $80 books just to have rules for Craftworlds?

No one would have been happier. Gw literally can't do anything right

 Temujin wrote:
Even if the rules in this 'codex' are much more extensive than we're expecting, I think this book is a fairly transparent attempt to drive sales of Wraithknights and Wraithguard. GW makes rules to sell model kits. Unless GW have big model releases planned for Genestealer Cults or Thousand Sons, I wouldn't put any money on seeing supplements for them. I reckon any further supplements we see will be in the same vein as this one - Codex: Please buy more of our latest gigantic model kits.

I think we've seen enough brand new kits that are complete garbage that won't see the table top for any other reason than, I'm rich and for the lulz.
GW rules to models correlation is random at best.

ClockworkZion wrote:

 SickSix wrote:
I do think charging as much as the main codex is bollucks. So Iyanden players pay twice what regular space elf players pay to field there armies.

BT players should accept what is coming.

I would love a Kroot mercenaries book. But if it requires Tau to play it should not cost the same.

Codex is $49.99 USD and the Expansion is $39.99 and comes with the Altar of War stuff for Iyanden which is another $7.99 normally if you were buying the codex. So realistically you're paying $32 USD for the expansion, $7.99 for the Altar of War missions and still coming in $10 cheaper than the codex.

So no, not the same cost.

That's an extremely flawed argument. As far as we know now, this book will contain a somewhat significant amount of rules and wargear that is perfectly legal to use in an army, so what a codex supplement should be! Good so far . So then they decide, "well hey, this isn't expensive enough yet, let's jack up the price by making it on pretty paper and filling it mostly with fluff and pictures." And then they say, "hey, still not enough, let's add in the Altar of War missions!" So now when somebody wants to buy the rules to play their Iyanden army to its fullest potential, they are also paying for an artbook, and a set of missions they may not have wanted. Just because it comes with more stuff doesn't make it worth the cost, it just forces you to buy things you don't want to get the things you do. So no, it's not 32 bucks for the expansion and 8 for the missions, it's 40 for the whole lot when that should have stayed separate.

I think anyone who plays Iyanden would be very happy about having their fluff expanded for the craftworld that they probably picked for the fluff and artwork in the first place.

Its a ripoff, sure, but people will buy it regardless because it's their army.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:

Its a ripoff, sure, but people will buy it regardless because it's their army.

Its GW - its going to be overpriced
If this Iyanden book is good, I fully expect my wallet to fail its 2+ wife save.

Rule Number One is Be Polite ~ Manchu

I just want to know if the book is stand alone or just a supplement? Like if a person legitimately only wanted to play Iyanden, could he just pick up this book and be ready to go? Or is it going to be like 3rd edition where you get the book and half the entries say 'See Codex:Eldar'.

To be honest though, I'd have considered the book a good buy if it was just artwork and fiction (so long as it's a lot of fiction as the Eldar codex has nothing new) and a couple scenarios to play.

 MandalorynOranj wrote:

That's an extremely flawed argument. As far as we know now, this book will contain a somewhat significant amount of rules and wargear that is perfectly legal to use in an army, so what a codex supplement should be! Good so far . So then they decide, "well hey, this isn't expensive enough yet, let's jack up the price by making it on pretty paper and filling it mostly with fluff and pictures." And then they say, "hey, still not enough, let's add in the Altar of War missions!" So now when somebody wants to buy the rules to play their Iyanden army to its fullest potential, they are also paying for an artbook, and a set of missions they may not have wanted. Just because it comes with more stuff doesn't make it worth the cost, it just forces you to buy things you don't want to get the things you do. So no, it's not 32 bucks for the expansion and 8 for the missions, it's 40 for the whole lot when that should have stayed separate.

If this would've been small soft-cover supplement, how you assume they'd have priced it? Old B&W soft-cover codices are 26 euros, only three euros less than this hard-cover full colour book. At most this is few euros people are quibbling over. It is utterly insignificant.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nvs wrote:
I just want to know if the book is stand alone or just a supplement? Like if a person legitimately only wanted to play Iyanden, could he just pick up this book and be ready to go? Or is it going to be like 3rd edition where you get the book and half the entries say 'See Codex:Eldar'.

To be honest though, I'd have considered the book a good buy if it was just artwork and fiction (so long as it's a lot of fiction as the Eldar codex has nothing new) and a couple scenarios to play.

It is a supplement, you need the regular Eldar book as well.

Apparently we're going back to having to lug around a library again. Does anybody make a bottomless bag? Anyone?

 wowsmash wrote:
Apparently we're going back to having to lug around a library again. Does anybody make a bottomless bag? Anyone?

Apple does!

The price may be high, but if thats the issue for you just don't buy it. The codex has enough in it to play an Iyanden themed force as it is, this is just another way to play it. It isn't required to play. It's the same as buying a Forgeworld book; most of the lists in those books reference their parent Codex for the majority of the units, and give you the rules for the new units and abilities.

If you want to play with the rules, then great! Go get it, but its an option, not a requirement.

I like it a lot. It gives you options, and I do like me some options. I play CSM, and while I will buy a Word Bearers supplement, I'm not also going to go out and buy the Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors, and Night Lords books. I would WANT to play with them, but not HAVE to.

Just my two thrones...

 Crimson wrote:

 MandalorynOranj wrote:

That's an extremely flawed argument. As far as we know now, this book will contain a somewhat significant amount of rules and wargear that is perfectly legal to use in an army, so what a codex supplement should be! Good so far . So then they decide, "well hey, this isn't expensive enough yet, let's jack up the price by making it on pretty paper and filling it mostly with fluff and pictures." And then they say, "hey, still not enough, let's add in the Altar of War missions!" So now when somebody wants to buy the rules to play their Iyanden army to its fullest potential, they are also paying for an artbook, and a set of missions they may not have wanted. Just because it comes with more stuff doesn't make it worth the cost, it just forces you to buy things you don't want to get the things you do. So no, it's not 32 bucks for the expansion and 8 for the missions, it's 40 for the whole lot when that should have stayed separate.

If this would've been small soft-cover supplement, how you assume they'd have priced it? Old B&W soft-cover codices are 26 euros, only three euros less than this hard-cover full colour book. At most this is few euros people are quibbling over. It is utterly insignificant.

I'd have this as an option, full color, harback and all at the price it is now, but this would be the collector's edition. The regular edition would be like the old codexes, softcover, black and white, no altar of war missions, and price it at 20 or 25 US dollars.

If GW is about to launch a wave of supplements I hope they write some clear rules for exactly what the supplement is.

For example:
Is it an army of its own, and thus possible to ad as allies to a regular eldar codex?
Probably not.
But then, if its not a army of its self, can I just ad Iyanden units to a regular army, or, perhaps get a yellow wraith lord as hq for my second FOC in a 2000+ army?

This could lead for some serious FOC abuse and hot debate if its not made perfectly clear from the start.

 Fayric wrote:
If GW is about to launch a wave of supplements I hope they write some clear rules...

I lost you right about there.

I wonder if the iPad edition will have the links to the main Eldar book if you own it.

So all those "See Eldar Codex" entries will actually pull up the rules if you already have the Eldar Codex on your iPad?

 Manchu wrote:
It's okay to not like things, etc.

Some people want this book and are not troubled by the price tag.

Heck, I want the book; I can afford the price tag; I've ordered the book.

It still doesn't address my concerns about this move by GW:

They have done supplemental codexes before, and they decided to stop doing them. Why did they stop doing them? According to their own statements, supplemental codexes required the player to buy multiple books to play their army, and created confusion with rules references across multiple books.

Evidently, before the advent of digital editions and easier piracy, and before competition with a larger, more diverse wargaming business, GW didn't think that multiple books made good business sense.

Now, when people can easily pirate material from the web hours after release, GW thinks that more expensive hardback supplemental codexes are the way to go. How does that make sense?

I think people think that I (and other naysayers) either don't want to spend money on GW, or don't want supplemental codices. At least for me, neither of those is the case.

I'm very happy to have tons of supplemental materials. I'd probably be one of those completists who would like to have all of them, in fact.

However, I still think GW could make more money and have a stronger business by making it easier and less expensive to get this stuff. I think that a cheaper supplement would be purchased by more people (and more people would then also buy the models which GW keeps saying are their bread and butter). I think a more comprehensive supplement would be purchased by more people (and more people would also buy the models, as well). I dont see the business sense in an expensive, narrowly tailored supplement.

How many people who would pay this money for an Iyanden expansion wouldn't pay the same (or more) for an expansion with all the Craftworlds? Wouldn't that book have more buyers? Wouldn't that book have more add-on sales, since it wouldn't be just promoting wraith units?


If making the Space Wolf, Blood Angel, Dark Angel, Catachan, and Eye of Terror sub-dexes was not a good business move (and GW said it wasn't, and went towards single codexes), what makes Iyanden a good idea? Is Iyanden more popular as an expansion to Eldar than Space Wolves were as an expansion to Space Marines?

I play Iyanden, and I won't buy this book unless I'm completely convinced that the rules provide me with a significant change and actually improves the army's game play vs. just building a Iyanden themed list from the main codex. Adding wargear, etc. isn't enough for me. Especially since most of the wargear in the codex is kind of useless.

PalmerC wrote:
[
What hole is GW trying to get out of?

Sorry, I should have been clearer on this. GW is, presumably, concerned about their declining share of the market of wargames.

If you want to increase your share of the market, you lower the barriers to entry. You make it easier for people to start collecting (or expanding their collection) of your game. New games have done this by offering free rules, or two-player battle boxes.

GW has offered 'starter boxes' at a good value (relative to the rest of the line). They have made rules like Kill Team and Allies, which allow you to field a small collection of miniatures in the game without a large initial investment in the army. So, they have taken actions which suggest that they do, in fact, want to increase their market share by making the game have a lower barrier to entry.

Then, they put out an optional supplement which does not include all the rules, and which is priced almost as high as a codex itself.

It's already not an inconsequential amount of money for someone to start a 40K army, with the need for a rule book, as well as a codex, as well as miniatures. If new players are presented with a game system that might require the purchase of three books to play a specific army build, or other game systems which require no more than one or two books, the second game system becomes 'easier' to adopt.

If you want to encourage veteran players to start a new army, or expand their existing army along a new theme, offering to sell them a pricey book so that they CAN buy more models also seems misguided. It would be like requiring a paid membership to GW to buy models from their website. I'm making the assumption that GW wants to increase overall market share and increase model sales through this move, and it seems like, of all the possible ways to do so, one of the least efficient.

Assuming that our dreams come true and GW releases dozens of supplemental codexes, the avid collectors and loyal players may well be very happy, but the potential new customer sees a game with DOZENS of rulebooks. Sure, you can assure them that you don't need to buy all of those supplements, but is that market strategy making your game more attractive than the competition who offer a few core books?

Alternatively, looking outside just wargaming, see what Paizo does with rulebooks. Their core rulebooks, the ones you need to play the game, are $10 as PDFs. They offer a very low cost of entry to the game, and then assume (successfully, I might add), that new players will like the game and pay more for the additional rules. That's also a valid strategy which has a proven track record, but not one which GW has adopted, despite being a 'model company' in their own words.

Brother Weasel wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 Death By Monkeys wrote:
@ashikenshin - That Codex: Ultramarines you wanted? It's called Codex: Space Marines...you know, just in case you didn't notice that there are more Ultramarine special characters in the book than any other Chapter.

To be fair, only by 1, and nobody uses Chronus, Telion, Tigurius or Calgar... In fact, the only Ultramarines Character I've seen used is Sicarius, and I've played a lot of Ultrmarine players x/ Whereas all the other I've seen 3 or 4 times :3

Use em or not, they are there...

They may be there, but they suck ass. They may as well just not be there at all to be honest, the only problem I can see with this whole new SM dex not based on Ultramarines is(!): What are they going to do with all the in production resin models that they made for all the Ultramarines guys? They'd have to make a Codex supplement for them or release more special characters (which are not needed) to balance the whole thing out, both of these options'd kinda suck to be honest :/