Mr. Voidness wrote:
How about a single helldrake? Before having Tau allies I didn't even considered 1, but now..?

I'm a bit afraid that a single flyer would stick out and be priority target, however as I run Tau allies, I have considerable anti-air to thin out other flyers.. a.k.a. anti-air.

 hippesthippo wrote:

Relic07 wrote:

 hippesthippo wrote:
I've never had problems with only one. I take allies, though, so points are tight.

They're only really effective against marines. Who cares if I kill 5 Firewarriors or Guardsmen in cover? That's like 30-40 pts worth. Big woop. The thing is, they're broken against marines, so you have to take one.

The other thing is that it eats into your fast attack slots. 1 Drake is enough to do the job. Whereas I feel like units of spawn/bikes really don't work well unless you have multiples. With two units of Spawn you can effectively pin an opposing army in their backfield long enough to gain significant board advantage.

Actually, they work against much more than just marines. Vector a transport, passengers inside get a 3" emergency disembark. Guess what happens next?

Opponent isn't always going to have an ideal spread on his ap3 vulnerable troops and units. I can't tell you the amount of times I have friend 10 or more in one torrent.

The vector strike on top of it is just ace. And if you know what you are doing, the drakes can work really well to limit where your opponent can move on the table.

Fantastic unit, A++ rules, and one of the coolest looking models in the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Who said anything about running 3? I run 2, read my post above. At 1500 Pt+ you need 2.

However, I do have a triple drake list at 2K that it absolutely devastating. It can easily win an RT tournament.

Glocknall wrote:
The issue with the drake is not its weapon.

It's the fire arc it has combined with the torrent rules. If can manipulate fantastic shots netting high amounts of hit and never have to leave the tabletop.

Before it was FAQed it was a very good unit but manageable. I keep hoping that GW faqs that it has 180 front arc at maximum, or go back to the 45 degree arc ideally.

Its durability is very good but still has a weak point with AV 10 rear.

GW is not going to FAQ it again. They have clearly spelled out how they want it to work.

It will be this way until the next Chaos book. Deal with it.

I am not afraid of them, but that's because I fully understand them and have adjusted my lists accordingly.

Mmm I think I know what I'm doing. Whoever your playing against that lets you get 10 guys under a template might not. Even spilling out of a transport that should never happen. Mayyyyyyybe if your opponent wins a combat and only consolidates a single inch. Maybe.

Vector strikes are great, yeah, but good opponents manage their movement so you can't fly over and land the way you want to. Even then, against side av11, your only averaging 1.5 hp.

I've yet to see a triple Heldrake list do well at even a RTT, let alone a big tourney. That alone should tell you something. They're great at what they do, but putting 500 points into three flame templates that don't start on the board is not going to get you a balanced list.

Against some armies even a single Heldrake can almost win the game itself. However, against a lot of other armies, it simply isn't very efficient.

 dementedwombat wrote:
I can't say that if someone ran 3 helldrakes at 1500 pts I'd refuse to play them, because I'm not that much of TFG, but the next time I played them I'd be running 3 riptides and a couple of skyrays...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In the intent of adding something useful to the thread, I think that the drake is still as good as it has ever been (never actually seen one so I can't comment, but from what I've read they are quite good). It's just that there are armies with actual anti air firepower now, so countering them is somewhat easier.

For instance, the more I look at it the more I consider the humble sky ray. I never touched them before, but I think they have to be up near "worst enemy" status for a helldrake. 6 str 8 shots that ignore cover? Sounds good to me.

 dementedwombat wrote:
True, but i would assume that 5++ is significantly worse than whatever cover save they would normally get. I saw something about 3++ somewhere earlier in this thread.

With a 5++ a skyray has reasonable odds to kill a helldrake in one turn regardless of whether it has a cover save, as long as the Tau can somehow get a single markerlight on the drake before the skyray unloads (6 man pathfinder squad or the new FW commander battlesuit with a networked markerlight on a suit with skyfire).

dementedwombat wrote:True, but i would assume that 5++ is significantly worse than whatever cover save they would normally get. I saw something about 3++ somewhere earlier in this thread.

With a 5++ a skyray has reasonable odds to kill a helldrake in one turn regardless of whether it has a cover save, as long as the Tau can somehow get a single markerlight on the drake before the skyray unloads (6 man pathfinder squad or the new FW commander battlesuit with a networked markerlight on a suit with skyfire).

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 dementedwombat wrote:
True, but i would assume that 5++ is significantly worse than whatever cover save they would normally get. I saw something about 3++ somewhere earlier in this thread.

With a 5++ a skyray has reasonable odds to kill a helldrake in one turn regardless of whether it has a cover save, as long as the Tau can somehow get a single markerlight on the drake before the skyray unloads (6 man pathfinder squad or the new FW commander battlesuit with a networked markerlight on a suit with skyfire).

Other fliers have to jink, and thus force themselves to fire snapshots next turn, if they want a save. The Heldrake gets that AND IWND "built-in". That's what makes it the most resilient flier in the game.

Martel732 wrote:Yes, triple hell drake is still a major tournament list.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Other fliers have to jink, and thus force themselves to fire snapshots next turn, if they want a save. The Heldrake gets that AND IWND "built-in". That's what makes it the most resilient flier in the game.

Caestus Assault Ram called and wants its title back.

True, but i would assume that 5++ is significantly worse than whatever cover save they would normally get. I saw something about 3++ somewhere earlier in this thread.

 kronk wrote:
If the Hell Drake entices more people to play xenos instead of Space Marines by shaking your local meta's tree, then that's got to be a great thing, right? Haven't people been complaining for the last few years about there being to many Space Marines vs Space Marine games in their local stores?!

Rock on, Hell Drake.

*Bro fist*

 Sephyr wrote:

People may miss the Baleflamer once they see their terminators/mega-armor nobs wither under twin AP2 rending flamers.

Martel732 wrote:
Go ahead and run three. Why hold back? No one else is going to give you mercy as it is.

 Sephyr wrote:
I only use one Helldrake, and while it usually does a good job, it also gets killed very easily by most armies.

- Vendettas shoot it out of the sky like it ain't no thing
-Quad guns pile hull points on it very consistently
- Long Fangs using MLs made twin-linked by their friendly local rune priest usually kill it in a single turn.
- Hell, in my very last game three ork bikes made it explode with nine S5 shots in its rear! I admit it was a big fluke (it was previously untouched), but there you go.

The Helldrake is the best flyer since the release of 6th Ed, granted. IG and Necrons still have better options overall. I find the new Eldar planes very good: though they are ridiculously fragile: the amount of hurt they can dish out is awe-inspiring. People may miss the Baleflamer once they see their terminators/mega-armor nobs wither under twin AP2 rending flamers.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
God, wish the Hemlock Wraithfighter had two D-scythes instead of heavy D-scythes.