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 Vineheart01 wrote:

Did I also mention that if I declare Furious Charge with the Puretide EN I will beat the orks in CC?

Um, did you also forget to mention that the Puretide chip only affects the model using it? Tank/Monster Hunter and Stubborn are rules that only require 1 model to have it, Furious Charge and the other rules are by a model by model basis.

Even with it i fail to see how you would beat orks

I meant to say stubborn at that point. The Puretide chip gives so many rules that I forget which are which sometimes. I would declare stubborn so even if they win I should pass LD and wipe the unit in the following turn. And on the charge I have 5 attacks from farsight at I5 at S5 AP2. I should hit with 4 and wound with 3. I have 5 S4 attacks from Shadowsun at I4. I should hit with 3 and wound with 1.5 of them. I then have 26 S3 attacks at I4. I hit with 14 total. I'll wound with roughly 5. At I2 (Same as the Orks) I'll have 28 S5 attacks from the crisis suits. Ill hit with 16 attacks and wound with 13. That comes to a grand total of 3 dead from Farsight and 19.5 wounds from the unit. They will then pass 3 armor saves leaving 9.5 Orks left (counting the one dead from my 1 shot during the shooting phase). Assuming they got to attack with every model left (even though given the foot print on a 30 man boyz squad is HUGE so that probably wont happen) they will have 60 attacks and will hit with 40 and wound with about 13. Between rolling save on drones and crisis suits (mixed saves) lets say I do half on 3+ and half on 4+. I should fail 2 on 3+ and 3.5 on 4+. The Nob (assuming Im stupid enough to assault at an angle to where he can get his attacks in or unable to avoid it) kills 3 drones. That's only 8.5 total wounds while I dealt them 19.5 wounds, even if the nob kills 3 suits he dealt me 11.5 while I dealt 19.5. That should be enough to require a leadership test of which they will more than likely fail and I sweep them at I5. That's how you beat Orks in CC with Farsights squad. YAY MATH (I think)!

Except at only killing 19.5 you might not remove fearless...

ive never had a full 30boy blob get in an assault. Theres always a few dead from before. I imagine hed remove fearless.

Preferred enemy really should be on unit types not a race. Thats just unfair to that race lol

Well, I posted on page one. I took 180 boyz to a tourney and got my a$$ handed to me. The terrain was a problem and I won one game vs Daemons, but it REALLY would've been another loss had we finished. So just FYI. And if you say, "it's the way you played it..." Think about it first. My ENTIRE deployment is orks. One game I didn't even kill a single model. Admittedly it was the much reviled frog people... but still.
My $0.02

Dok G, yikes! sorry to hear that.
I have only used the green tide in 6th for testing, basically it started out helping a bud (chaos marines) to see the limits of their shooting potential.
It was the first time I didn't use the KFF because I just wanted to bring more Boyz (inadvertently creating a true Green Tide) and I actually slaughtered them. I didn't keep track of how many I lost because of no cover (it was a lot) and my opponent spread out his force and basically tried to take them all on at the same time. This was when I noticed that the dreaded Terrain was actually helping me - So (for me alone it seems) I posted my findings and wondered if others did the same. So far only a few have done this, but with a slight change in my opponents tactics (not changing their list, specifically to stop the Green Tide), my great and wonderful tactic, seems to fall apart.
I have used it to help another player learn how to play DE with skaven proxy and they won without much of a contest - even still learning what Dark Eldar Codex can do, I didn't stand a chance.
Since I used the list in a friendly 3 game round robin with 3 other players and with the exception of falling asleep in the middle of the last game, I didn't do well, but I did awesome in terms of what the orks can do. For now, I'm not going to horde the Orks anymore, I'd rather see more Bikes, Deff Dreads, SAG, and even weird boyz - because even when I lose those games, I have a much better time playing, than I have with the Green Tide.

Like I said, this isnt me hating on orks, Ive played them for 5 years and are hands down my favorite army and after running math hammer after math hammer scenarios in my head I can't think of a scenario where Orks beat Tau. I wasnt even mentioning having my Kroot shoot Nobz in the face before I assault the unit. I also have necrons and while it is a slightly better matchup for the orks it can still come to a grinding halt for the Tide if the reanimation protocols start doing hard work. A squad of wraiths can cause big problems for the boyz. Although Thraka and 9 mega nobz jumping out of a wagon and getting the assault still wrecks the face off of any unit in the game.

Chosen Praetorian wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:

Did I also mention that if I declare Furious Charge with the Puretide EN I will beat the orks in CC?

Um, did you also forget to mention that the Puretide chip only affects the model using it? Tank/Monster Hunter and Stubborn are rules that only require 1 model to have it, Furious Charge and the other rules are by a model by model basis.

Even with it i fail to see how you would beat orks

I meant to say stubborn at that point. The Puretide chip gives so many rules that I forget which are which sometimes. I would declare stubborn so even if they win I should pass LD and wipe the unit in the following turn. And on the charge I have 5 attacks from farsight at I5 at S5 AP2. I should hit with 4 and wound with 3. I have 5 S4 attacks from Shadowsun at I4. I should hit with 3 and wound with 1.5 of them. I then have 26 S3 attacks at I4. I hit with 14 total. I'll wound with roughly 5. At I2 (Same as the Orks) I'll have 28 S5 attacks from the crisis suits. Ill hit with 16 attacks and wound with 13. That comes to a grand total of 3 dead from Farsight and 19.5 wounds from the unit. They will then pass 3 armor saves leaving 9.5 Orks left (counting the one dead from my 1 shot during the shooting phase). Assuming they got to attack with every model left (even though given the foot print on a 30 man boyz squad is HUGE so that probably wont happen) they will have 60 attacks and will hit with 40 and wound with about 13. Between rolling save on drones and crisis suits (mixed saves) lets say I do half on 3+ and half on 4+. I should fail 2 on 3+ and 3.5 on 4+. The Nob (assuming Im stupid enough to assault at an angle to where he can get his attacks in or unable to avoid it) kills 3 drones. That's only 8.5 total wounds while I dealt them 19.5 wounds, even if the nob kills 3 suits he dealt me 11.5 while I dealt 19.5. That should be enough to require a leadership test of which they will more than likely fail and I sweep them at I5. That's how you beat Orks in CC with Farsights squad. YAY MATH (I think)!

Cool.... soooo how many points was that unit that managed to beat a 180 pt boyz squad?

Many of you may play green tide. I played green tsunami.
Only played at 2000 points, 6 mobs of 30 boys, led by a Waagh boss and warp head. Ran behind 3 teams of killa kans. 191 models there is honestly no way to kill it all before it gets to you. This has been tested the Orkney brain boys in da lab had a good laugh and high fives all around until it escalated quickly.

Spaz431 wrote:
191 models there is honestly no way to kill it all before it gets to you.

Six thunderfire cannons disagree with you.

Necron tesla would like to respectfully ask for you to take that back.

Would you like me to continue?

Tactical_Genius wrote:

Spaz431 wrote:
191 models there is honestly no way to kill it all before it gets to you.

Six thunderfire cannons disagree with you.

Necron tesla would like to respectfully ask for you to take that back.

Would you like me to continue?

Dont forget the single manticore.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

Tactical_Genius wrote:

Spaz431 wrote:
191 models there is honestly no way to kill it all before it gets to you.

Six thunderfire cannons disagree with you.

Necron tesla would like to respectfully ask for you to take that back.

Would you like me to continue?

Dont forget the single manticore.

Not to mention 9 Griffons.

So if you build an army specifically to beat a certain army it will win? Interesting...

Tactical_Genius wrote:

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

Tactical_Genius wrote:

Spaz431 wrote:
191 models there is honestly no way to kill it all before it gets to you.

Six thunderfire cannons disagree with you.

Necron tesla would like to respectfully ask for you to take that back.

Would you like me to continue?

Dont forget the single manticore.

Not to mention 9 Griffons.

45 Lootas could probably mow them down as well.

herpguy wrote:
So if you build an army specifically to beat a certain army it will win? Interesting...

Multiple thunderfire cannons, necron tesla, and trip manticore is not uncommon in TAC lists. I was joking about the griffons.

Ok, OP would your opinions change about Green Tide if KFF gave a 5++ Inv to shooting, but not CC, attacks?

 PipeAlley wrote:
Ok, OP would your opinions change about Green Tide if KFF gave a 5++ Inv to shooting, but not CC, attacks?

That's what I'm hoping for with the new codex. there's way to many things out there now that ignore cover.

rigeld2 wrote:

rothrich wrote:
The mek "upgrade" is useless in a squad of burnas...

Demonstrably false.
You can only wound what is in range of the weapons fired. That's ~8" for Template weapons. Even a Mek with a slugga (that's the pistol, right?) increases that by 4".

See, knowing rules is a good thing.

Yup... it's still viable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
Ran a green tide today. It was boring, cumbersome and tiring to play, and essentially an auto-win against armies that don't take the maximum number of templates permitted.

Never again.

But wait - I thought it was literally impossible for orks to win unless their opponent is a fool!
Surely I haven't been misled!

I know...

Jeeze...

This is making me wanna bring out the boyz and do some curb stomping to prove the naysayers wrong!

Remember: "Shoot da choppy, chop da shooty".

Spaz431 wrote:
Many of you may play green tide. I played green tsunami.
Only played at 2000 points, 6 mobs of 30 boys, led by a Waagh boss and warp head. Ran behind 3 teams of killa kans. 191 models there is honestly no way to kill it all before it gets to you. This has been tested the Orkney brain boys in da lab had a good laugh and high fives all around until it escalated quickly.

Actually that's a pretty standard Green Tide/Kan wall build. More effective in 5th that 6th, with the drop to KFF and the change in rules.

A true green tsunami at 2000 pts would be 300 -odd boyz, ditch the kanz, and run a couple of kff meks to give them all cover instead. The kanz are just targets for the antitank guns that would otherwise be killing one boy at a time.

@Spaz... Yes... I fielded 196 models....


Game 1: Puredar Loss
Game 2: Slaanesh Flying Circus - Win... (actually tie)
Game 3: Puredar Loss
Game 4: Taudar - Crushing loss
Game 5: Dark Angels - Loss

herpguy wrote:

Chosen Praetorian wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:

Did I also mention that if I declare Furious Charge with the Puretide EN I will beat the orks in CC?

Um, did you also forget to mention that the Puretide chip only affects the model using it? Tank/Monster Hunter and Stubborn are rules that only require 1 model to have it, Furious Charge and the other rules are by a model by model basis.

Even with it i fail to see how you would beat orks

I meant to say stubborn at that point. The Puretide chip gives so many rules that I forget which are which sometimes. I would declare stubborn so even if they win I should pass LD and wipe the unit in the following turn. And on the charge I have 5 attacks from farsight at I5 at S5 AP2. I should hit with 4 and wound with 3. I have 5 S4 attacks from Shadowsun at I4. I should hit with 3 and wound with 1.5 of them. I then have 26 S3 attacks at I4. I hit with 14 total. I'll wound with roughly 5. At I2 (Same as the Orks) I'll have 28 S5 attacks from the crisis suits. Ill hit with 16 attacks and wound with 13. That comes to a grand total of 3 dead from Farsight and 19.5 wounds from the unit. They will then pass 3 armor saves leaving 9.5 Orks left (counting the one dead from my 1 shot during the shooting phase). Assuming they got to attack with every model left (even though given the foot print on a 30 man boyz squad is HUGE so that probably wont happen) they will have 60 attacks and will hit with 40 and wound with about 13. Between rolling save on drones and crisis suits (mixed saves) lets say I do half on 3+ and half on 4+. I should fail 2 on 3+ and 3.5 on 4+. The Nob (assuming Im stupid enough to assault at an angle to where he can get his attacks in or unable to avoid it) kills 3 drones. That's only 8.5 total wounds while I dealt them 19.5 wounds, even if the nob kills 3 suits he dealt me 11.5 while I dealt 19.5. That should be enough to require a leadership test of which they will more than likely fail and I sweep them at I5. That's how you beat Orks in CC with Farsights squad. YAY MATH (I think)!

Cool.... soooo how many points was that unit that managed to beat a 180 pt boyz squad?

Mine is about 970pts. And it didnt kill a 180pts boyz squad. It killed two boyz squads of about 220pts a piece which is 440pts total and a huge hole out of your green tide line. Next turn if you attempt to assault me I'll overwatch and kill roughly 9 boyz off your front line (In other words, your closest models). This will have probably taken your assault away considering the angle you would have had to assault from after my jet pack move after eating 2 of your squads in the previous turn. Even if you do get in my gun drones will go first along with Farsight and Shadowsun and youll be lucky to swing back with enough boyz to kill more than 3 models. If you're not swept in combat at this point I will hit and run at Initiative 5 and jump 3d6 over the heads of the boyz that assaulted me and position myself to shoot the previous assaulted squad to death while i whittle down another squad of boyz in preperation of another assault that will end in another full wipe or sweeping advance. In 3 player turns I've killed 4 squads of boyz. This isn't estimation, I've actually done this before. If you say "Well your opponent was stupid for giving you those assaults" you may want to keep in mind that I autohit deepstrike so I pick when and where I kill. If you back up from me to prevent multi-squad death then instead of trouncing through your army Ill simply tiptoe through it. There is no escape, you will not out maneuver me. I'm faster and better than anything in a greentide list. Including Thraka or some other boss in a battle wagon that wont live ling enough to see the move and assault phase of its next turn.

So if it shows up turn 2 it might conceivably kill it;s own weight before the end of the game.

Not a dig. It sounds like a fairly effective unit. what was the rest of your army, because that one unit is like, half your points in a 2000 Pt game

Also, a 30 Boyz squad will have to get to 10 or less models by the end of the CC to have to make a sweep test, or they stay fearless and aren't going to go anywhere.


Also, i may be being dense (long day) but how are you killing two full 30 man ork squads in one turn with this unit alone? I don't have the new Tau codex, so i'm assuming there is something i'm missing.


Can this uber-deathstar assault the turn it comes in, also? If so i can see it jump in-shooty-assault-deathing a unit, but if not, how is it getting into CC before turn 3?

Ascalam, I am wondering the exact same thing as you. I am pretty positive it is physically impossible for this squad to kill a squad of boys per turn.

Without the codex, i can't really tell.

1000 pts of suits and drones could conceivably carry enough firepower to clear off a full squad of boyz a turn, and/or finish them off in assault.

Of course that leave the remaining 1800 pts worth of Orks to do something constructive to the 1000 pts of Tau remaining.

A lot would also depend on the terrain (for cover/blocking LOS issues) and deployment. Dawn of war deployment doesn't give the Tau much time to kill the horde before it closes.

KFF really does need to provide an invul save. Something like a shield, since thats basically what it is, where if the shots originated outside of the shield it provides a 5++ to affected units (still 6" range but affects entire unit like it currently does, not model by model) but if the shot originates from within the shield no invul, since its not crossing the barrier anymore.

And obviously CC wouldnt matter since youre bypassing the field by walking through it real quick.

 Ascalam wrote:
Without the codex, i can't really tell.

1000 pts of suits and drones could conceivably carry enough firepower to clear off a full squad of boyz a turn, and/or finish them off in assault.

Of course that leave the remaining 1800 pts worth of Orks to do something constructive to the 1000 pts of Tau remaining.

A lot would also depend on the terrain (for cover/blocking LOS issues) and deployment. Dawn of war deployment doesn't give the Tau much time to kill the horde before it closes.

I have been playing with a Farisght Enclave list for about two weeks that is pure battlesuits and Riptides and one of the toughest matchups has been in the form of a Green Tide army list, though I was able to win both times I played it. The best unit I have had against it has been this:

-(x2) Burst Crisis Suit Teams
*w/ x3 Crisis Suits, Bonding Knives, x2 Burst Cannons Each, x1 Drone Controller, x2 Gun Drones Each

This build puts out a whopping 36 S5 AP5 shots a turn and if combined with marker drones and/or an allied Commander with the Command and Control Node the results are devestating to any group of Ork Boyz.. The only way I have been able to win was to focus ALL my firepower into one Ork Boy Unit at a time, with primary focus on Lootas or even charge one of my Riptides into assualt to contain a squad of boyz for a few turns. Both of these tactics worked rather well, however I barely scrapped by with a win as I nearly did not have enough bodies to finish the job. Also terrain actually saved me in one of the games as it was in our ruined city board at my FLGS and all the difficult terrains slowed him down considerably.

Vineheart01 wrote:KFF really does need to provide an invul save. Something like a shield, since thats basically what it is, where if the shots originated outside of the shield it provides a 5++ to affected units (still 6" range but affects entire unit like it currently does, not model by model) but if the shot originates from within the shield no invul, since its not crossing the barrier anymore.

And obviously CC wouldnt matter since youre bypassing the field by walking through it real quick.

Really depends on how the shield works. Even in (semi-) official stuff there are multiple KFFs described, from the Episode 1 like bubble, over a looted shield generator from an eldar battlecruiser(carried by the arch-arsonist), to a tesla-coil simply zapping any bullets out of the air.

The tesla coil zapping bullets out of the air supports the invul save idea. If its a defensive retaliation devise, why is it considered a "cover save" which implies youre hiding behind something?

Gmalaron, I'm sure those teams could smoke some Orks. The issue is that that's not an all-comers list there. I'm sure if Chosen Praetorian used a standard farsight bomb load out he's not able to wipe 4 squads in 3 turns.

Also, the KFF becoming an invul is definitely something desperately needed. With tau and eldar now ignoring cover left and right, you really can't rely on it as a sound tactic anymore.

Im able to do this because my unit has target locks. Or I can just shoot my entire unit at one Boyz squad (dealing 32.5 wounds, aka whole unit death) and put one of shadowsuns fusion blasters into another squad allowing me to assault it and knock it down below fearless and sweep it in CC. And at 1850 I can have two squads of kroot with sniper rounds, and aegis line with a comms relay (so more than likely my unit WILL come in turn 2). It cannot assault the turn it comes in but I was referring to the turn after it comes in. That leaves enough pts for some riptides or broadsides, Depending on your playstyle. And I dont need to mention what large blasts and missilesides do to boyz squads, do I? In case you dont know a squad of missilesides kills roughly 13.5 boyz per turn. Large blast vary depending on how you deploy your units. I have this response alot when I tell people what this unit can do. I then play a game with them and they stand with mouths open as they try to figure out a way to deal with this unit of Demigods. I deepstrike in on a BA player with Tau allies at one point and killed a unit of broadsides, mephiston, and a unit of fire warrriors, all in the turn i landed.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
The tesla coil zapping bullets out of the air supports the invul save idea. If its a defensive retaliation devise, why is it considered a "cover save" which implies youre hiding behind something?

I like describing it as the orks think its a force field, but it's really just pumping out lots of billowing black smoke. So it's harder to get a clear shot on them.