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 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Fezman wrote:
Fluff-wise they have been in use for 5,000 years and are used as "Line breakers" (IMO SM already have plenty of units that can do that)

Yup. As I thought. "They've totally always been there, just off camera! Honest!".

Well, that's one great reason to set the background for my armies in late M34 then

 marv335 wrote:
With all the new fortifications that have been produced, is anyone really surprised that they have come up with a unit whose job it is to destroy fortifications?
I'm not.

What, you mean like: Vindicators, Typhon Siege Tanks, Land Raider Achilles, Assault Terminators, Breaching Squads, and Ironclad Dreadnoughts? This is what people mean when they say there's not really a role for these suits, Marines have at the very least one unit for all the jobs now. Linebreakers? That's what Land Raiders, Terminators or, PA Marines in MK3 Iron armour and boarding shields are for. Siegecraft? No less than four vehicles, plus an artillery unit.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yup. As I thought. "They've totally always been there, just off camera! Honest!".

And your solution to introducing new units would be?

Don't. There are entire Imperial factions which have little or no representation in 40K at all, while Marines have every toy under the sun already, so don't give Marines new units. Give them new flavours of existing units and new ways to use existing units, and devote the studio's creative energies to fleshing out the various minor Imperial and Xenos factions; give the Inquisition the treatment they deserve, rather than a sideshow in Codex: Mary Sue. Arbites. Adeptus Mechanicus. The Ecclesiarchy/SoB. Kroot. Hrud. All the cool new races and pirates FFG have created for their RPGs. As long as they write rules for the Imperial stuff that synergises well with Space Marines, they could make an absolute mint flogging overpriced Allies minidexes to Marine players and even, god emperor forbid, make miniatures which would sell to people other than Marine players at the same time.

I mean seriously, if we were reading about this release, and it consisted of new plastic boxes for Sternguard, Vanguard, and Tacticals, plus three new plastic characters, and a new vehicle dual-kit, would you honestly be thinking to yourself "man, this release is boring, it totally needs some completely new and over the top plastic unit"?

 Zweischneid wrote:
Honestly. I think the Centurions are quite cool.

I am still waiting for a shot from the back. If, as rumours have it, you can truly see the Power-Armoured Space Marine piloting it by looking at the miniature from behind, and the exo-skelly mechanics that motivate it, it'll be a brilliant mini.

Internet-memes can go feth themselves.

At least it's something new, unlike the x-emth derivative Terminator/PA-variant that Forge World keeps gaking out.

A few other things from that picture. If you look just below the left hurricane bolter, you can see a gap, giving us a more normal width marine waist, and then outside are two support rods that go from the hurricane bolters down to the knee joints. If you line up the waist, the leg length seems to indicate that the knee joint is lined up correctly, and the marine is standing on top on the dreadnought feet, giving him basically a set of 1 head tall stilts.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yup. As I thought. "They've totally always been there, just off camera! Honest!".

And your solution to introducing new units would be?

Have it be a new invention, instead of something that was always there but never seen before?

The IoM may be a bunch of neophobes, but even they tend to make new stuff now and then.

 MandalorynOranj wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yup. As I thought. "They've totally always been there, just off camera! Honest!".

And your solution to introducing new units would be?

Tech-Marines from the such-and-such chapter have developed this innovative new suit to deal with the challenges faced in the so-and-so campaign. It's been a slow process, but eventually they have been making their way into other chapters when their usefulness became apparent.

That could potentially still have them be around for a long time, but it's only now that they're seeing widespread use and distribution.

I'd build on that and make them an attempt to provide terminator level protection in a much easier to build design, but it was too bulky and unsuited to deep strike, so was ignored until some chapter decided to slap some heavy weapons and more armor plating on it and use it as a siege unit.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yup. As I thought. "They've totally always been there, just off camera! Honest!".

And your solution to introducing new units would be?

Have it be a new invention, instead of something that was always there but never seen before?

The IoM may be a bunch of neophobes, but even they tend to make new stuff now and then.

It's not the first time new units have been added that have 'always been there' in the fluff. Vanguards & Sternguard anyone? They just use to be veteren tactical marines. Only blood angels had veteren assault marines. Dark Angel veterans use to ALL be deathwing termies. Sanguinary guard are one of the largest changes to an armies fluff out of nowhere in terms of going against history.

It really isn't a big deal, new units are cool, they make the game interesting....

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yup. As I thought. "They've totally always been there, just off camera! Honest!".

And your solution to introducing new units would be?

Have it be a new invention, instead of something that was always there but never seen before?

The IoM may be a bunch of neophobes, but even they tend to make new stuff now and then.

It's not the first time new units have been added that have 'always been there' in the fluff. Vanguards & Sternguard anyone? They just use to be veteren tactical marines. Only blood angels had veteren assault marines. Dark Angel veterans use to ALL be deathwing termies. Sanguinary guard are one of the largest changes to an armies fluff out of nowhere in terms of going against history.

It really isn't a big deal, new units are cool, they make the game interesting....

Oh, I know that. It's just a dumb and lazy way of doing it.

Double post is double...

endlesswaltz123 wrote:


It's not the first time new units have been added that have 'always been there' in the fluff. Vanguards & Sternguard anyone? They just use to be veteren tactical marines.

Well, Sternguard used to be Ultramarine Tyranid War Veterans, hence the special ammo and stuff (Kraken Ammo?)

They only become Sternguard when Mat Ward decided that the Space Marines Codex need to move away from the Ultramarine-centric Ventris-Fan-Dex that Graham McNeill had written for 4th, giving unprecedented limelight to non-Ultramarine Space Marine chapters and filing off the serial numbers of all Ultramarine specific units (similary to how "Calgar's Honour Guard" > "Honour Guard".

Well, for stuff like Sanguinary Guard I could understand it. They are symbolic, they are fluffy.
If you would make those 'new' it wouldn't make any sense.
You could say that they created an assault elite army in honour to Sanguinius, but that would be less cool.
The lore where they are descendants from Sanguinius' own personal bodyguard sounds much better.

But stuff like these Centurions, they aren't that special; they don't look special.

Kangodo wrote:


But stuff like these Centurions, they aren't that special; they don't look special.

A) We haven't actually seen/read the Centurions fluff yet.

B) Everyone (e.g. H.R.M.C. et al.) was whining just the same, and just as much about Sanguinary Guards, fluff, nipple and all (like they do for every GW release).

Everyone whines continuously about everything that is to be released.
Then, it turns out to be good in-game, and all of the sudden, all of the haters absolutely love them.

 thenoobbomb wrote:
Everyone whines continuously about everything that is to be released.
Then, it turns out to be good in-game, and all of the sudden, all of the haters absolutely love them.

It's still possible to hate the models while loving the unit

 prowla wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:
Everyone whines continuously about everything that is to be released.
Then, it turns out to be good in-game, and all of the sudden, all of the haters absolutely love them.

It's still possible to hate the models while loving the unit

Not for me, I simply can never buy a unit no matter how good it is if it looks ugly to me but fortunately I like the centurions so this aint a problem this time.

 thenoobbomb wrote:
Everyone whines continuously about everything that is to be released.
Then, it turns out to be good in-game, and all of the sudden, all of the haters absolutely love them.

Except the Centurion rules as they have been seen so far are absolutely trash. Twinlinked heavy bolter and a Hurricane bolter, no invulnerable Terminator for 60 points? Hahaha no. I seriously fear for the rest of the Codex.

Also, this comment is absolutely baseless. Even if the rules for them were good, with the current models, I'd rather slowly build up a squad of Contemptor Dreadnoughts over a period of time.

I don't remember people complaining when GW released good looking models.


I must have missed the broadside rage during the Tau release.
Was there a horrible wraitguard flamewar that i happened to sleep through as well.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:
Everyone whines continuously about everything that is to be released.
Then, it turns out to be good in-game, and all of the sudden, all of the haters absolutely love them.

Also, this comment is absolutely baseless.

Helldrake.

 HoverBoy wrote:

I must have missed the broadside rage during the Tau release.

I guess it is just submerged in the general Tau-rage.

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:
Everyone whines continuously about everything that is to be released.
Then, it turns out to be good in-game, and all of the sudden, all of the haters absolutely love them.

Also, this comment is absolutely baseless.

Helldrake.

I know a lot of people that liked the Helldrake model at first glance, myself included. 99% of the comments I've seen regarding the Centurions are negative.

http://www.captureandcontrol.com/

Literally, look at this poll - 73% at current think the Centurions suck.

I also specifically intended to point out that the Codex hasn't been released yet, but eh you got me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 HoverBoy wrote:
I don't remember people complaining when GW released good looking models.

I wonder why?

_______________________________________

Also, the GW website has changed and now there's a giant Aquila where the new release header usually is. Hinting at C:SM I presume?

YES YES YES!

 Mr.Omega wrote:


Literally, look at this poll - 73% at current think the Centurions suck.

I also specifically intended to point out that the Codex hasn't been released yet, but eh you got me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 HoverBoy wrote:
I don't remember people complaining when GW released good looking models.

I wonder why

Trust me. Opinion on Centurions will change when people see the 360-shots, the Marines "boarding" the Centurion from the back, etc.., see the miniatures.

And there were massive shitstorms surrouding both the Tau and the Eldar release. Just because you missed them (H.R.M.C. certainly didn't miss the opportunity to whine about it) doesn't mean it wasnt there.

Wow!

I cant believe how many pages of this thread is centurion dissing and hate.

Finding actual usefull pictures and rumors is almost impossible. Have you considered opening a centurion thhread so you can hate there instead of muddling up this thread.

 Zweischneid wrote:
A) We haven't actually seen/read the Centurions fluff yet.
B) Everyone (e.g. H.R.M.C. et al.) was whining just the same, and just as much about Sanguinary Guards, fluff, nipple and all (like they do for every GW release).

A) Doesn't matter.
To me a unit has to express its fluff with their name and appearance.
They could be the emperor's real children and their name and model still wouldn't reflect that.
In my opinion they have the same fluff-relevance as a random driver from a Rhino.
One look at the SG and their name and you just know that they were his personal guard.
So they could really make Centurions a new invention instead of this "They have been here for 5000 years!" that they are doing now.

B) It's the internet. People always complain about new stuff.

Kangodo wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:
A) We haven't actually seen/read the Centurions fluff yet.
B) Everyone (e.g. H.R.M.C. et al.) was whining just the same, and just as much about Sanguinary Guards, fluff, nipple and all (like they do for every GW release).

A) Doesn't matter.
To me a unit has to express its fluff with their name and appearance.
They could be the emperor's real children and their name and model still wouldn't reflect that.
In my opinion they have the same fluff-relevance as a random driver from a Rhino.
One look at the SG and their name and you just know that they were his personal guard.
So they could really make Centurions a new invention instead of this "They have been here for 5000 years!" that they are doing now.

B) It's the internet. People always complain about new stuff.

But who says the Centurions are supposed to special in this "Sanguinary-Guard" style way? They are a siege-warfare exo-skeleton, that a regular Marine will step-into (or out-of) without taking off his Power Armour. I doubt it's the Sanguinary Guard (or even 1st Company Terminators) guys in a Chapter that get this job.

And yes, people complain about the new stuff. They don't specifically complain about the Broadsides or Wraithguards, just like they don't complain much about the new Vanguard Vets. Those are just a re-hashs of the same-old, same-old. No creativity, but nobody is offended either. The shitstorm is always the new stuff. Riptide. Wraithknight. Now Centurions.

I actually like the Centurions well enough to regret that they don't fit with my army (White Scars)

 Yodhrin wrote:
I mean seriously, if we were reading about this release, and it consisted of new plastic boxes for Sternguard, Vanguard, and Tacticals, plus three new plastic characters, and a new vehicle dual-kit, would you honestly be thinking to yourself "man, this release is boring, it totally needs some completely new and over the top plastic unit"?

Yes, and how many players would say "Cool new models, but I already have all the Sternguard, Vanguard, Tactical Marines, and HQ I could need, so I'll just buy the book and be good for a few more years."

 Mr.Omega wrote:
http://www.captureandcontrol.com/

Literally, look at this poll - 73% at current think the Centurions suck.

I also specifically intended to point out that the Codex hasn't been released yet, but eh you got me.

Yes, a "hughly scientific" poll linked to by a pair of articles titled "Attack of the termitubbies!" and "New Centurian Pics. Not Impressed." I'll bet that poll is unbiased.

Hm now what do we have here? Seems I'm a little late but no matter! Lets take a look...

Centurions: Now I don't want to be a Billy Bandwagon but I can't say I like these all that much. It's not like they physically repulse me but aesthetically I just don't feel they work. Very flat, very static and whatnot. I also personally find the concept rather droll and uninspired. I can just imagine the design meeting:

"Okay, so we've got a cool old school tank, some nice character sculpts and some updated plastic kits but we need a big, new exciting unit. So, any suggestons?
...
...
...
... Uh, bigger marines?
...
... Perfect!"

Like, there's so many different ideas they could have used like, I don't know, demolitions experts with demo charges, laser cutters and (yes) drills, or a squad of specialized melee fighters with all sorts of exotic weapons, or maybe even import those Forge World shieldy blokes, I dunnno. But sorry, fair enough if you like 'em but they are certainly not for me.

Captain: Well, it's definitely a very nice model, good detail if sporting a rather overused pose, but it's not my cup of tea I'm afraid.

Chaplain: Looks okay from what I can see, would prefer to see a clearer image before I make my judgement.

Librarian: Ooh now I do like this dashing gentleman. Good aggressive pose, nice detailing, good head sculpt and a cherubim! Ah, that makes me all nostalgic about the good old Daemonhunters days... Never before or since have I painted so many bums... Not all that keen on the sword and shield mind you, but that should be easy to fix.

Vanguard Veterans: Very nice, again, not for me (not a huge fan of jump troops) but I can still see they did a good job on these. Nice detail but not too over the top and lots of melee weapons (including PA thunder hammers and storm shields!) makes this a dandy little kit in my eyes.

Hunter/Stalker: The hunter's a nice throwback, beeeeg gun that still looks functional. Like the stalker as well, interesting and somewhat more original idea to have two separate gun turrets. The little pistony thingamabobs (wow, spellchecker recognizes thingamabobs!) seem a little bit too... little. But that's just me nitpicking.

Stern Guard: From the tiny picture they look rather lovely but, like the chaplain, I'll hold my tongue for now.

Overall, a pretty good release, I've never been a vanilla marine player but if the rules are splendid I may have to take a taste of the space marine punch.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Don't.

In other words, earn less money.

I don't see any difference between amending the game's background to accommodate new units and introducing them as a new invention (which would be hard considering the 40k timeline is frozen). They weren't there yesterday. They're here today. Complaining about it seem counter productive.

You might argue about it being a valuable and/or enriching addition I guess...

I've held it true for many moons now that if you want to see the worst possible reaction to anything GW, go to Dakka. But that's cool, it's a forum where different people with a common interest convene.

I haven't read all 65 pages of this thread, so please forgive me if this was brought up already.

BUT

Given all the recent codex supplements, could we see not one but SIX suppliments for SM? One for each of the founding chapters without their own codex? It would be cool if they came out with one for each to give them all something to really make each one unique and to have something special.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I actually like the Centurions well enough to regret that they don't fit with my army (White Scars)

Same. Only difference is I play Dark Angels and Blood Angels. I can't take them

I don't have a problem with the model so much as the rules. Granted it's all hypothetical until September, but if these are close to the mark I don't really see any reason to replace my current assualt/heavy weapon teams with something that is going to be a massive target.