Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added]

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**RunningWithScissors49**

bigboss1o1 wrote:

CHARACTERS
-Marneus Calgar may take 3 Warlord Traits and is pricier.
-Korsarro Khan grants Scout to mounted troops and bikes. He inflicts D3 Hammer of Wrath hits.
-Kayvan Shrike may Infiltrate with Jumppack units.
-Emperor's Champion equipped with AP:2 sword, armor is 2+/4+i
-High-Marshal Helbrecht grants Hatred and Fleet to Black Templars in the Assault phase once per game.
-Lysander returns with Eternal Warrior, Units in 12" re-roll on morale and pinning test.
-Grimaldus Grants Zealot to his unit.
-Several Named Characters retain USRs that affect their entire army.

Wait, what? Is this not the complete list, or did they drop kantor?

EDIT: Ignore me, this pretty obviously isn't all of it, unless most of the ultramarine characters gone too

**ZebioLizard2**

Yodhrin wrote:
Imperial Deceit wrote:
Well it is also possible that these CT are just a taste of what is to come. There maybe way more for each CT then has been leaked.

For the sake of IF and IH, I bloody well hope so. Having read that roundup, it turns out that the most thematic HQ for IH, the MotF, comes with our supposedly special Chapter Tactic by default for every flavour of Marines, and in exchange he gets....+1 to repair rolls. Seriously I don't get this; they managed to look at BT and go "OK, so we give them their special thing(Crusaders), and we say 'no libbies', sorted", yet they were apparently incapable of looking at IH and saying "OK, so we give them their special thing(Rites of Battle/Zealot on MotF/Techmarines), and we say 'no chappies', sorted".

IF arguably have it even worse than us, since at least there might be some IWND Dreadnaught/Techmarine shenanigans to try, while they essentially get stuck with weaksauce versions of Ultramarines traits. Bolter Drill is a worse version of Tactical Doctrine, and Relentless Devs and Centurion devs is infinitely more useful than Tank Hunter, especially given the paucity of armour in a lot of 6th Edition regional metas.

No chaplains? IH has the Iron Fathers, which are essentially chaplains (chaplain tech marines, still though..)

Man though, Space marines get all this and yet CSM is derided for wanting rules for their legions.

**Vain**

RunningWithScissors49 wrote:
Wait, what? Is this not the complete list, or did they drop kantor?

-Several Named Characters retain USRs that affect their entire army.

Plus, would be a sad day when all the non Grey/Red/Green/Silver Marines can be done with just 7 SCs.

**Mr Morden**

Squeaky wheel gets the grease........

**Crimson**

Anpu42 wrote:

Yes you will get some masively Accrate shooting before you die quickly to all of the AP3 Ignore Cover Weapons.

Yes, which is greatly preferable over dying same way before accomplishing anything because your heavy and special weapons missed!

**Imperial Deceit**

That may also be an error, I don't know why it would only give you 1:1 for bikers as troops. It may not make any into troops but make all of your bikes scoring. Or maybe scout bikers are troops now.

**d-usa**

Dundas wrote:
Imperial Deceit wrote:
If the Vanguard vets lose Heroic intervention it kind of defeats their purpose. Assault marines will always be cheaper.

If the price changes are true, they won't be that much cheaper, and don't Vanguard get 2 base attacks instead of 1, as well as a lot more weapons options? Seems like that might be worth the extra 4-5 points or whatever.

Unless Assault Marines dropped in points along with everything else, the difference in 5 man squads is 35 points, or 55 points for a 10 man squad.

So taking what we know from the new rumors and the old codex, and considering that the Sgt gets a free power sword (a 15 point cost for regular Assault Marines) what your +4 points per marine get you is:
-4 more attacks (A:2 for the base guys) or 9 more attacks for a squad of 10.
-can join multiple units without penalty
-auto-pass Glorious Intervention
-everybody can take Melta-Bombs
-everybody has access to power weapons, storm shields, etc..

**Anpu42**

Crimson wrote:
Anpu42 wrote:

Yes you will get some masively Accrate shooting before you die quickly to all of the AP3 Ignore Cover Weapons.

Yes, which is greatly preferable over dying same way before accomplishing anything because your heavy and special weapons missed!

To me the Re-Roll are just as good as the Dakka Baner or a Wolf Priest Oath of War, witch for me has not been that Overwhelminng.

**Imperial Deceit**

You only get heroc intervention if you buy vanguards jump packs (which they don't have), also all those upgrades cost points. just because you can take a power weapon on everything doesn't mean you should. DC can do the samething but it gets pricy fast.

**Melcavuk**

I might be reading things wrong but is here any chance that the WScaptain on bikes provides an ADDITIONAL 1 biker unit as troops (so 2 bike squads as troops per WS captain on bikes?) it seems odd that its mentioned once for general captains and again for WS captains.

**Mr.Omega**

bigboss1o1 wrote:
This what im tracking from BOLS

UNIT CHANGES
-Chaplains are HQ , W:2, A:2 and grant Zealot.
-Master of the Forge gains It Will Not Die
-Scouts drop 2 points, can take LS Storm as a dedicated transport.
-Tacticals drop 2 points.
-Devastators drop 2 points.
-Sternguard drop 3 points.
-Vanguard drop 1 point, jumppack option drops 7 points.
-Honour guard are cheaper.
-SM Bikes drop 4 points.
-Hunter/Stalker re both armed with s:7 weapons (Stalker heavy4, Hunter heavy1). The Hunter's weapon is AP:2 Armorbane.
-Command Squads may take bikes, and a bike-equipped Commander makes a SM Biker unit troops.
-Crusader Squads may take 2 power weapons per squad. Costed and equipped as Tacticals as standard. May swap out for BP/CCW for free. Max size 10 Initiates and 10 Neophytes.
-Centurions WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W2 I4 Ld8/9 Sv2, Squad size 3-6, each costed as a Predator.

CHAPTER ABILITIES
- Raven Guard have Stealth, may use jump packs in movement AND assault phase.
- Imperial Fists reroll '1s' to hit with standard bolters (Bolter Drill). Devatators/Centurions have Tank Hunters and +1 on the building damage table.
- Salamanders reroll failed to-wounds with flame weapons, and failed armor penetration rolls versus vehicles. Characters gain a free master crafted weapon. Vulkan is the only way to grant twin-linked meltas.
- Black Templars have Chapter Tactics options instead of Vows. The Emperor's Champion is an HQ choice for them only and chooses from either (reroll failed to-hits plus rending in challenges), or (gain Adamantium Will plus Crusader). No Librarians allowed.
- Ultramarines choose from one of the following donctrines:
a) Tactical - Re-roll ones, unless they're Tactical marines and they re-roll all shooting failed to hits.
b) Assault - Re-roll charge distance, unless they're Assault squads, Bikes, Attack bikes who gain Fleet.
c) Devstator - Re-roll on snap shots and overwatch, unless they're Devastators who gain Relentless (except when disembarking).
- White Scars bike equipped Captain makes 1 bike squad troops
- Successor Chapter use the Chapter Tactics of their Founding Chapter. Many Successor Chapters are listed by name.

NEW ITEMS
6 new Chapter Relics
Grav Weapons have Concussive

CHARACTERS
-Marneus Calgar may take 3 Warlord Traits and is pricier.
-Korsarro Khan grants Scout to mounted troops and bikes. He inflicts D3 Hammer of Wrath hits.
-Kayvan Shrike may Infiltrate with Jumppack units.
-Emperor's Champion equipped with AP:2 sword, armor is 2+/4+i
-High-Marshal Helbrecht grants Hatred and Fleet to Black Templars in the Assault phase once per game.
-Lysander returns with Eternal Warrior, Units in 12" re-roll on morale and pinning test.
-Grimaldus Grants Zealot to his unit.
-Several Named Characters retain USRs that affect their entire army.

If even half of this list is true I will be very happy with the new Codex.

**Anpu42**

Imperial Deceit wrote:
You only get heroc intervention if you buy vanguards jump packs (which they don't have), also all those upgrades cost points. just because you can take a power weapon on everything doesn't mean you should. DC can do the samething but it gets pricy fast.

A feind of mine has been using a 5 Man Bllood Angels Vanguard with Jump Packs, Power Swords and Storm Shields and has proven to be both very Resilant and Brutal. They managed to take out a full 15 man Blood Claw Pack + Wolf Guard Pack Leader and Wolf Priest in Two Assualt Phases, now this was in 5th, but with a good Surgical Assassination Unit. If they become Cheeper, I think I will have to worry about them more.

**lord_blackfang**

So WS apparently get a lot of goodies after all, but it doesn't change the fact that large portions of existing armies are being rendered unplayable (I used to run 2 squadrons of Speeders and a squadron of Attack Bikes... I can chuck them all now to make room in FA for my bikes that used to be Troops... and I can spend the points (and cash) to buy a second useless Captain and some Tacticals so I actually have some scoring bodies.

**d-usa**

I am now just loving Shrike + 5 Vanguard Jump Marines.

Stealth, Infiltration with Shrike, use their Jump Pack to move and assault after already infiltrating, with Glorious Intervention.

Shrike Wing for the Win!

**Imperial Deceit**

Anpu42 wrote:
Imperial Deceit wrote:
You only get heroc intervention if you buy vanguards jump packs (which they don't have), also all those upgrades cost points. just because you can take a power weapon on everything doesn't mean you should. DC can do the samething but it gets pricy fast.

A feind of mine has been using a 5 Man Bllood Angels Vanguard with Jump Packs, Power Swords and Storm Shields and has proven to be both very Resilant and Brutal. They managed to take out a full 15 man Blood Claw Pack + Wolf Guard Pack Leader and Wolf Priest in Two Assualt Phases, now this was in 5th, but with a good Surgical Assassination Unit. If they become Cheeper, I think I will have to worry about them more.

The issue was that they maybe losing Heroic Intervetion in the new codex, which would ruin their surgical strike abilities.

**d-usa**

But they gain the ability to assault multiple units without penalty and gain Glorious Intervention, all with a decent point drop.

**Anpu42**

Imperial Deceit wrote:
Anpu42 wrote:
Imperial Deceit wrote:
You only get heroc intervention if you buy vanguards jump packs (which they don't have), also all those upgrades cost points. just because you can take a power weapon on everything doesn't mean you should. DC can do the samething but it gets pricy fast.

A feind of mine has been using a 5 Man Bllood Angels Vanguard with Jump Packs, Power Swords and Storm Shields and has proven to be both very Resilant and Brutal. They managed to take out a full 15 man Blood Claw Pack + Wolf Guard Pack Leader and Wolf Priest in Two Assualt Phases, now this was in 5th, but with a good Surgical Assassination Unit. If they become Cheeper, I think I will have to worry about them more.

The issue was that they maybe losing Heroic Intervetion in the new codex, which would ruin their surgical strike abilities.

I am hoping not, but even if they do, they can still inflict real damage once they get close.
Myself I would either use them as a "Flanking Unit" to somthing else or keep them in the backfield to deal with Deep Stikers.
I will make mine a Body Guard for Shrike, all with Paired Lighting Claws [I like Fluffy] or Lighting Claw/Power Fist or mayby Lighting Claw/Thunder Hammer just for the 20% Cool Factor

**Dundas**

Imperial Deceit wrote:
You only get heroc intervention if you buy vanguards jump packs (which they don't have), also all those upgrades cost points. just because you can take a power weapon on everything doesn't mean you should. DC can do the samething but it gets pricy fast.

It's too expensive to take a power weapon on all of them, but being able to take a power fist or two that can't be challenged out can be handy.

**d-usa**

Anpu42 wrote:
Imperial Deceit wrote:
Anpu42 wrote:
Imperial Deceit wrote:
You only get heroc intervention if you buy vanguards jump packs (which they don't have), also all those upgrades cost points. just because you can take a power weapon on everything doesn't mean you should. DC can do the samething but it gets pricy fast.

A feind of mine has been using a 5 Man Bllood Angels Vanguard with Jump Packs, Power Swords and Storm Shields and has proven to be both very Resilant and Brutal. They managed to take out a full 15 man Blood Claw Pack + Wolf Guard Pack Leader and Wolf Priest in Two Assualt Phases, now this was in 5th, but with a good Surgical Assassination Unit. If they become Cheeper, I think I will have to worry about them more.

The issue was that they maybe losing Heroic Intervetion in the new codex, which would ruin their surgical strike abilities.

I am hoping not, but even if they do, they can still inflict real damage once they get close.
Myself I would either use them as a "Flanking Unit" to somthing else or keep them in the backfield to deal with Deep Stikers.
I will make mine a Body Guard for Shrike, all with Paired Lighting Claws [I like Fluffy] or Lighting Claw/Power Fist or mayby Lighting Claw/Thunder Hammer just for the 20% Cool Factor

It's almost like we are the target audience for the back of the box!

**Lansirill**

Any rumors regarding the ability to mix chapter tactics? I'm guessing not, but it could be fun.

**VoidAngel**

I have thirty dusty Templar assault Marines with storm shields. Not that I'll ever field that many again, but...the lulz...

Anyone know if LotD are still an elites slot? Any chance of being able to field them as an army?

What's this about FW being "100% legal" as I saw someone put it a page or two back? Was I under a rock and missed this announcement?

I imagine this is perhaps non-super heavies, non-Titan, non-experimentals? If true at all? I like the idea (I have me some heap of FW...) - but always assumed such units were strictly permission based...? Anyone care to clarify?

**OverwatchCNC**

VoidAngel wrote:
I have thirty dusty Templar assault Marines with storm shields. Not that I'll ever field that many again, but...the lulz...

Anyone know if LotD are still an elites slot? Any chance of being able to field them as an army?

What's this about FW being "100% legal" as I saw someone put it a page or two back? Was I under a rock and missed this announcement?

I imagine this is perhaps non-super heavies, non-Titan, non-experimentals? If true at all? I like the idea (I have me some heap of FW...) - but always assumed such units were strictly permission based...? Anyone care to clarify?

Let's not open that Pandoras Box in this thread too.

Peregrine incoming in...5...4...3...2...

**Eldarain**

d-usa wrote:
But they gain the ability to assault multiple units without penalty and gain Glorious Intervention, all with a decent point drop.

I'm sure I've just missed something but what do you mean by that?

What mitigates a disordered charge for them? Are they all characters now so they can interject in challenges?

**Kangodo**

d-usa wrote:
But they gain the ability to assault multiple units without penalty and gain Glorious Intervention, all with a decent point drop.

Well, I don't care.
Be honest with me, have you ever used either one of those abilities?
Heroic Intervention is the iconic ability of the Vanguard Veterans, now they took it away.
I am still hoping that rumour is false.

VoidAngel wrote:
What's this about FW being "100% legal" as I saw someone put it a page or two back? Was I under a rock and missed this announcement?

FW has been 100% legal for quite some time now.
Some people just refuse to accept it and don't want to play it, which in my opinion is the same as house-ruling that a specific codex or unit is banned.

Like someone said recently in another thread:

"In the event they are trying to shove vet gamers over to FW entirely, they need to put out an absolute, unassailable, unquestionable, unequivocal statement that Forgeworld units are legitimate in normal play, because apparently slapping big "APPROVED FOR 40K, NO, REALLY, THERE'S A BIG STAMP AND EVERYTHING" into the rules didn't work."

" Peregrine incoming in...5...4...3...2... "
INB4!

**d-usa**

Eldarain wrote:
I'm sure I've just missed something but what do you mean by that?

What mitigates a disordered charge for them? And are they all characters to be able to interject during challenges?

If the rumors are correct it is the new function of Heroic Intervention

Heroic Intervention: Negates the penalty for Disordered Charge and the Sergeant auto-passes Initiative checks for Glorious Intervention.
They CANNOT charge after Deep Striking anymore.
1 point cheaper per Marine.
Jump Pack upgrade is 7 points cheaper per Marine

via: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/278011-new-codex-space-marines-rumor/page-68#entry3420390

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kangodo wrote:
d-usa wrote:
But they gain the ability to assault multiple units without penalty and gain Glorious Intervention, all with a decent point drop.
Well, I don't care.
Be honest with me, have you ever used either one of those abilities?
Heroic Intervention is the iconic ability of the Vanguard Veterans, now they took it away.
I am still hoping that rumour is false.

How many people actually used the old Heroic Intervention?

I've never used the ability to assault multiple units because I don't think I have had a unit capable of doing that.

**Imperial Deceit**

For the cost of making that iteration of Vanguard survivable i would rather just take more assault marines. Even vets only have 1 wound and 3+ save, and a five man squad will get shot to pieces before they get to use those fancy weapons.

**ductvader**

d-usa wrote:
Kangodo wrote:
d-usa wrote:
But they gain the ability to assault multiple units without penalty and gain Glorious Intervention, all with a decent point drop.
Well, I don't care.
Be honest with me, have you ever used either one of those abilities?
Heroic Intervention is the iconic ability of the Vanguard Veterans, now they took it away.
I am still hoping that rumour is false.

How many people actually used the old Heroic Intervention?

I've never used the ability to assault multiple units because I don't think I have had a unit capable of doing that.

People use it constantly...especially blood angels...who just keep getting kicked with every turn. Makes me wonder if Ymgarls are going to change...because their ability to assault is the only thing that makes them worthwhile in comparison to normal stealers.

**Godless-Mimicry**

Nevelon wrote:
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/278011-new-codex-space-marines-rumor/page-68#entry3420390

Nice compilation with some info I hadn't seen before. If this is accurate, White Scars might work out OK. Would require a little bit of tweaking from pure bike though. I'm not a fan of the one squad=troops if that comes to pass, not from a list building POV, but from a game play one. Which of your identical bike squads zooming across the table is the one that can score as a troop pick? What a headache...

WHITE SCARS CHAPTER TRAITS:
+1 to Jink saves
Autopass Dangerous Terrain tests
+1 to Hammer Of Wrath attacks
All White Scars units gain the Hit & Run USR, except for Terminators and Centurions.
KOR'SARRO KAHN:
Khan gives Bikes and Dedicated Transports in the White Scars detachment the Scout USR.
Moondraken inflicts D3 Hammer Of Wrath hits.

Thanks for this. I will admit now, with those rules it makes sense that they can't get all Bikes as it might be a bit broken otherwise. Well my faith is slightly restored. Hopefully Captains can get some really worthwhile gear now so they don't feel like a 300pts tax to get half the flavour of my old army.

**Kangodo**

d-usa wrote:
How many people actually used the old Heroic Intervention?

X people, where X is the amount of people who actually fielded Vanguard Veterans

**d-usa**

Imperial Deceit wrote:
For the cost of making that iteration of Vanguard survivable i would rather just take more assault marines. Even vets only have 1 wound and 3+ save, and a five man squad will get shot to pieces before they get to use those fancy weapons.

Depends on the circumstance. I will admit that Raven Guard players are probably getting more of a benefit from the unit that other chapters.