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 Medium of Death wrote:
I quite like the idea of certain heroes only really being used with the Chapters they are from. Enforced fluff.

Didn't see this on looking through originally, but has there been any chatter about Sternguard being made troops through an HQ? (Probably Kantor)

And those of us with no special characters just have to lump it?

No, sorry, not on. If they want a super-special ability limited to a particular chapter, put it in their traits. If it's not super-special enough to be part of the chapter's traits, then either let people counts-as, or give generic HQ's access to those abilities for a points cost that would make them equivalent to the SCs.

Q: Has libby base cost decreased?
A: Yes, Psyker down to 65 points.

Makes me glad, I like libbies.

Funny thing is back when I pointed out the libby being over priced compared to the sorceror I was told to shut up

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
The new QnA has made White Scars fears go away for the most part. Looks like the poster a few pages back that speculated the 5 man Bike Troops thing was a minimum was right. And with Khan at only 125pts and the Captain at 90pts, taking both might be worth it for reasons other than making those Bikes Troops. Happy days

We're still paying about 300 points of "character tax" to get our scoring units back and aren't left with any room in HQ for a psyker, which does hurt.

But I will enjoy having better bikers than the Ravenwing at long last. Scouts, H&R, 4+ Jink, ignore dangerous terrain, bonus to impact hits...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:
I quite like the idea of certain heroes only really being used with the Chapters they are from. Enforced fluff.

Didn't see this on looking through originally, but has there been any chatter about Sternguard being made troops through an HQ? (Probably Kantor)

And those of us with no special characters just have to lump it?

No, sorry, not on. If they want a super-special ability limited to a particular chapter, put it in their traits. If it's not super-special enough to be part of the chapter's traits, then either let people counts-as, or give generic HQ's access to those abilities for a points cost that would make them equivalent to the SCs.

I would be happy if I didn't have to field a SC to get all the proper rules to represent my army. You complain about the opposite

Don't get me wrong, I'm disappointed to hear of no Iron Hands special characters but I'd rather see this than a plague of Vulkans/Lysanders sweeping across the 40k tabletops.

How hard would it have been to give the IH a dreadnought chapter master, or a terminator captain. Unfortunately GW are probably planning supplements for the neglected Chapters. Poor wallet.

 Pyriel- wrote:

Q: Has libby base cost decreased?
A: Yes, Psyker down to 65 points.

Makes me glad, I like libbies.

Funny thing is back when I pointed out the libby being over priced compared to the sorceror I was told to shut up

That was also back when we had Null Zone, which ruined anything with an Invuln. Saves day.

*message messed up*
The gods of chaos and primarchs march forth in rage. "What have you been doing whilst we have been brooding in the darkness of the warp!? I-I'm sorry lord! But the codex Astartes are just too good.... and have you seen their well cared for blue armour? It's just radiant on the battlefield! "Isn't this heretical?" Yes, yes it is.

 Medium of Death wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm disappointed to hear of no Iron Hands special characters but I'd rather see this than a plague of Vulkans/Lysanders sweeping across the 40k tabletops.

How hard would it have been to give the IH a dreadnought chapter master, or a terminator captain. Unfortunately GW are probably planning supplements for the neglected Chapters. Poor wallet.

It will do very little to stop a plague of Vulkans or Lysanders. You can still play your Blue Vulkan or Red Lysander just fine. It will however do a fine job of preventing you from fielding your Green Vulkan with your Yellow Lysander unless you ally.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
The new QnA has made White Scars fears go away for the most part. Looks like the poster a few pages back that speculated the 5 man Bike Troops thing was a minimum was right. And with Khan at only 125pts and the Captain at 90pts, taking both might be worth it for reasons other than making those Bikes Troops. Happy days

We're still paying about 300 points of "character tax" to get our scoring units back and aren't left with any room in HQ for a psyker, which does hurt.

But I will enjoy having better bikers than the Ravenwing at long last. Scouts, H&R, 4+ Jink, ignore dangerous terrain, bonus to impact hits...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:
I quite like the idea of certain heroes only really being used with the Chapters they are from. Enforced fluff.

Didn't see this on looking through originally, but has there been any chatter about Sternguard being made troops through an HQ? (Probably Kantor)

And those of us with no special characters just have to lump it?

No, sorry, not on. If they want a super-special ability limited to a particular chapter, put it in their traits. If it's not super-special enough to be part of the chapter's traits, then either let people counts-as, or give generic HQ's access to those abilities for a points cost that would make them equivalent to the SCs.

I would be happy if I didn't have to field a SC to get all the proper rules to represent my army. You complain about the opposite

BREAKING NEWS: This just in, after months of intensive investigation by our Special Correspondent on the Blindingly Obvious, we can now report that people have different opinions

For example, you think the weakest possible FnP and an ability that only affects HQ and vehicles in a limited set of circumstances constitute "all the proper rules" to represent the Iron Hands, while just about every actual Iron Hands player who's piped up so far here and on rumour threads on other forums considers it a joke. And not a hilarious joke either, the sort of joke that your racist elderly relatives tell at family gatherings that just make everyone uncomfortable.

If we had multiple SCs and Traits as useful as the other Chapters, I'd happily give up counts-as characters, but we don't.

 Ironwill13791 wrote:
The 2 other space marine players at my FLGS are going to be upset that they won't be able to use Telion in their IF, and Salamanders armies. Guess their Telion models will be used as just generic sergeants.

To be rather honest I'm actually going to be sad about this. Whilst I am mainly a lover of chaos (both variants) and when not focused on that, opting to play guardsmen as I've always found them to be rather fascinating, I play a DIY chapter that uses Salamander Rules (hurray for the chapter that has no claimed successors but only rumoured ones) but I'd occasionally take somebody like Telion (and more often) Tigurius to represent my own members simply because you couldn't really make a scout company master and the sorts. This does really sadden me as that means pretty much UM get 3 choices of skills and then get multiple named characters whilst any Chapter besides a strict few (IF will have two because of Crimson Fists and BT having been understandably rolled in) will be stuck with one named character.

For all my frustrations and jealosies I am glad that they still made it possible to represent multiple chapters in a single army. I just wish they could expand that to other codeces that are supposed to represent other armies (IG, CSM, Eldar, etc.) I know that there is a chance that supplements will come in to increase diversity but it is still rather irritating that an army just gets page after page for all of these ideas when we get dinobots and a flying chicken of doom. Either way though, hopefully the SM codex answers a lot of your frustrations SM players! I know that SM have been a slightly sub-par codex for some time and hope it joins the relatively balanced (if some a bit worse and less internally balanced then others).

At the very least, there's no balance-related reason that characters without army-wide passives (Tigurius, Cassius, Telion, and Chronus) should be restricted to Smurfs.

Looks like we got Codex: Ultramarines afterall. I suppose I'll go pin all my hopes on supplements that will ultimately disappoint me.

 Rayth Phaenor wrote:
At the very least, there's no balance-related reason that characters without army-wide passives (Tigurius, Cassius, Telion, and Chronus) should be restricted to Smurfs.

From what I'm gathered they're just restricted to "Chapter Tactics (Ultramarines)" armies from the sound of things. Either way you can still ally them in, just make sure you paint -those- Marines blue.

 Rayth Phaenor wrote:
Looks like we got Codex: Ultramarines afterall. I suppose I'll go pin all my hopes on supplements that will ultimately disappoint me.

I disagree. GW has given us a pretty decent Chapter Traits system that prevents cherry picking characters to abuse the system they made.

What are the Iron Hands chapter traits, read through that list posted up on another blog and saw all the other Chapters but not Iron Hands.

6+ FNP on characters and IWND on vehicles and characters...I believe

 ductvader wrote:
6+ FNP on characters and IWND on vehicles and characters...I believe

6+ FNP army wide, and IWND on vehicles and characters. In addition, you get +1 to your blessing of the omnissiah roll.

 ductvader wrote:
6+ FNP on characters and IWND on vehicles and characters...I believe

You are correct!

Crazyterran wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
6+ FNP on characters and IWND on vehicles and characters...I believe

6+ FNP army wide, and IWND on vehicles and characters. In addition, you get +1 to your blessing of the omnissiah roll.

He is MORE correct!

MoD, IW get army wide 6+ FNP ,All Characters and vehicles get IWND. Plus Techmarines get a bonus +1 to Blessing of the Omnissiah.
Looks like I was a bit slow in posting..

 ductvader wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
6+ FNP on characters and IWND on vehicles and characters...I believe

6+ FNP army wide, and IWND on vehicles and characters. In addition, you get +1 to your blessing of the omnissiah roll.

He is MORE correct!

True, true. I keep forgetting about that one myself since on the MotF and Techmarines get access to that one.

Can someone tell me. How many of each combie weapon are in the sternguard pack?

Cheers guys. 6+ FNP is OK, not great though. 5+ would have been ideal. Slightly disappointed that there's no Preferred Enemy: Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines...

At the outset of the Heresy, Fulgrim - the Primarch of the Emperor's Children tried to turn Ferrus Manus to the side of the traitors. When Ferrus refused to side with the rebels, Fulgrim had his fleet launch a crippling attack on the Iron Hands vessels, although he could not bring himself to kill his brother. In the wake of this betrayal, Ferrus took as many of his veterans as he could onboard one of the few undamaged vessels to participate in the loyalist attack on Isstvan V. This proved to be a disaster when four of the supposedly loyal Legions turned on their allies, resulting in horrendous casualties amongst the Raven Guard and Salamanders Legions and the death of Ferrus Manus and his entire retinue. Rumors persist that Ferrus Manus's corpse was taken to Mars; the Iron Hands deny any such claims. The Iron Hands bear a grudge against all the participants of the Heresy: the traitors, for being weak enough to become corrupted, and the other loyalists, for not being strong enough to protect the Emperor.

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Rayth Phaenor wrote:
At the very least, there's no balance-related reason that characters without army-wide passives (Tigurius, Cassius, Telion, and Chronus) should be restricted to Smurfs.

From what I'm gathered they're just restricted to "Chapter Tactics (Ultramarines)" armies from the sound of things. Either way you can still ally them in, just make sure you paint -those- Marines blue.

 Rayth Phaenor wrote:
Looks like we got Codex: Ultramarines afterall. I suppose I'll go pin all my hopes on supplements that will ultimately disappoint me.

I disagree. GW has given us a pretty decent Chapter Traits system that prevents cherry picking characters to abuse the system they made.

*It claimed I had double posted so I edited the message only to find it had only sent one* TO summarize my post I feel that it still favours UM with vast options and diversity whilst leaving other armies in the dust from 3-4 named chars (BT), to IF (2), to RG, Sall (1), to Iron Hands (0).

 Medium of Death wrote:
Cheers guys. 6+ FNP is OK, not great though. 5+ would have been ideal. Slightly disappointed that there's no Preferred Enemy: Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines...

At the outset of the Heresy, Fulgrim - the Primarch of the Emperor's Children tried to turn Ferrus Manus to the side of the traitors. When Ferrus refused to side with the rebels, Fulgrim had his fleet launch a crippling attack on the Iron Hands vessels, although he could not bring himself to kill his brother. In the wake of this betrayal, Ferrus took as many of his veterans as he could onboard one of the few undamaged vessels to participate in the loyalist attack on Isstvan V. This proved to be a disaster when four of the supposedly loyal Legions turned on their allies, resulting in horrendous casualties amongst the Raven Guard and Salamanders Legions and the death of Ferrus Manus and his entire retinue. Rumors persist that Ferrus Manus's corpse was taken to Mars; the Iron Hands deny any such claims. The Iron Hands bear a grudge against all the participants of the Heresy: the traitors, for being weak enough to become corrupted, and the other loyalists, for not being strong enough to protect the Emperor.

Hatred: Fsck all 'yall.

I could buy it.

Incidentally are we now on page 108 based off of rumors from a single source? I imagine that the leaked photos are legitimate (except for the bad photoshop) but I haven't actually noticed anyone *confirming* any of these rumors... just lots of Space Marine players chattering, wishlisting, and chicken-littling.

6+ fnp is freakin' boss

Army wide? and IWND vehicles...that gives you free reign to go as vehicle or infantry heavy as you want...IH Predators, Vindicators, and Land Raiders just got a boost. Heck...I wonder if dreadnought benefit from one or the other?

 ductvader wrote:
6+ fnp is freakin' boss

Army wide? and IWND vehicles...that gives you free reign to go as vehicle or infantry heavy as you want...IH Predators, Vindicators, and Land Raiders just got a boost. Heck...I wonder if dreadnought benefit from one or the other?

I understand that a lot of the other CT may seem like they outshine outshine the IH, but a 6+ FNP is really amazing. Against standard anti-infantry fire you'll save quite a few extra wounds and its always nice to have that second save. At least you'll get to make a roll when the heldrakes come to flame you.

As far as people being angry about the ravenguard's traits, I have no idea where your rage is coming from. Like another poster mentioned, each trait has something that benefits the entire army and something that buffs a particular unit. Even the much hated ultramarine one that lets tactical squads reroll to hits only benefits tac marines, and the army as a whole gets to reroll ones. Always having stealth is fantastic, and will add a ton of survivability to every model in the army. Even that land raider sitting in the open will get a 6+.

Now it does suck that every chapter doesn't get a bunch of IC's.

 StarTrotter wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Rayth Phaenor wrote:
At the very least, there's no balance-related reason that characters without army-wide passives (Tigurius, Cassius, Telion, and Chronus) should be restricted to Smurfs.

From what I'm gathered they're just restricted to "Chapter Tactics (Ultramarines)" armies from the sound of things. Either way you can still ally them in, just make sure you paint -those- Marines blue.

 Rayth Phaenor wrote:
Looks like we got Codex: Ultramarines afterall. I suppose I'll go pin all my hopes on supplements that will ultimately disappoint me.

I disagree. GW has given us a pretty decent Chapter Traits system that prevents cherry picking characters to abuse the system they made.

*It claimed I had double posted so I edited the message only to find it had only sent one* TO summarize my post I feel that it still favours UM with vast options and diversity whilst leaving other armies in the dust from 3-4 named chars (BT), to IF (2), to RG, Sall (1), to Iron Hands (0).

It's a side-effect of having so many UM characters in the first place. At least we have more chapters being represented through characters thanks to 5th Ed than we used too.

Do we know if the combi-weapons on Sternguard are still only +5 points? I'm excited about their points cost reduction, but if I have to give it all back (and more) in 10 point combi-weapons, it'll be a drag.

Also, I'd gladly pay 100 points for my Libby still if I could have Null Zone. That's a huge loss.

And why the hell can't the IF Bolter Drill apply to Sternguard? It's still nowhere near as good as the Tactical Doctrine for the UM...

Everyone complaining that their chapter didn't get this or that, one word: supplements.

Like it or not that's the new model (cash cow) for GW. And some of us will wait a lot longer that others to get our favored (required) supplement. How else did you think they were going to fill the years between 6th and 7th edition if we get all the codices done in a year and a half.

ClockworkZion wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Rayth Phaenor wrote:
At the very least, there's no balance-related reason that characters without army-wide passives (Tigurius, Cassius, Telion, and Chronus) should be restricted to Smurfs.

From what I'm gathered they're just restricted to "Chapter Tactics (Ultramarines)" armies from the sound of things. Either way you can still ally them in, just make sure you paint -those- Marines blue.

 Rayth Phaenor wrote:
Looks like we got Codex: Ultramarines afterall. I suppose I'll go pin all my hopes on supplements that will ultimately disappoint me.

I disagree. GW has given us a pretty decent Chapter Traits system that prevents cherry picking characters to abuse the system they made.

*It claimed I had double posted so I edited the message only to find it had only sent one* TO summarize my post I feel that it still favours UM with vast options and diversity whilst leaving other armies in the dust from 3-4 named chars (BT), to IF (2), to RG, Sall (1), to Iron Hands (0).

It's a side-effect of having so many UM characters in the first place. At least we have more chapters being represented through characters thanks to 5th Ed than we used too.

Oh don't get me wrong. I entirely understand that factor and I'm glad to see a more equal represenation. I'm just saddened that characters like Telion supposedly cannot be brought in to represent a codex astatarates following/DIY/founding chapter's captain of the scouts and, admittedly biased, only one named librarian for UM.

Anyone know what what the new Hunter tank fires?, the AA one is rather luckluster.

Aren't they both AA tanks?