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 SickSix wrote:

Kangodo wrote:

Or do a "Forge the Narrative", it's what I am going to do.
I am hoping that Blood Raven will be confirmed to be a Raven Guard-successor or else I will make up my own RG-successor chapter to use my Blood Angels.
Blood Angels: Eagles with a blood drop.
Blood Raven: Raven with a blood drop.
Nobody will ever notice the difference!

RG successors? Man that is a new one. Where did that come from? I'm pretty sure everything I have ever read hints at Thousand Sons.....

Agree with the Thousand Sons relation. And if it's actually so, its a really great piece of fluff among the tide of unimaginative Ultra successors.

I plan on painting my Marines as Death Watch. Like many other players I have accumulated a fairly random bunch of Marine over the years despite not playing Marines!

And my old rtb01 Marines were (are) black, anyway.

If I use a counts-as Tigrius, say, his shoulder will be the correct colour for his chapter while the rest of his armour matches the theme of the army.

My only concern from these rumours is that of internal allying. It sounds as if SM are getting sub-2000 point double FOCing.

I wish the ally rukes had stayed in Apoc.

 Souleater wrote:
I plan on painting my Marines as Death Watch. Like many other players I have accumulated a fairly random bunch of Marine over the years despite not playing Marines!

And my old rtb01 Marines were (are) black, anyway.

If I use a counts-as Tigrius, say, his shoulder will be the correct colour for his chapter while the rest of his armour matches the theme of the army.

My only concern from these rumours is that of internal allying. It sounds as if SM are getting sub-2000 point double FOCing.

I wish the ally rukes had stayed in Apoc.

Allies can't take as many units in slots as double FOC can. Allies only get one of each with two troop choices, while double Foc gets a whole new, seperate FOC to use.

So Tigurius gets to reroll when choosing his 3 powers? He seems to be the only farily reliable way to get Gate of Infinity. He has 33% chance on the first roll, 40% chance on the 2nd roll and 50% chance on his 3rd roll.

I was thinking Tigurius Gating a unit of 6 Devastator Centurions forward 24". That way they can get in range with their Grav cannons. That would be 30 Grav Cannon shots up to 24". Also if Tigurius manages to get GoI on his 1st or 2nd roll, then he could go for Divination primaris power and twin-link the Centurions.

If tigirius gets all that crap, I'm picking my powers from now on. The Wardian cinematics in 6th are already terrible and Eldar and tzeench get nothing compared to this spank-fest of a character.

Polecat wrote:
So Tigurius gets to reroll when choosing his 3 powers? He seems to be the only farily reliable way to get Gate of Infinity. He has 33% chance on the first roll, 40% chance on the 2nd roll and 50% chance on his 3rd roll.

I was thinking Tigurius Gating a unit of 6 Devastator Centurions forward 24". That way they can get in range with their Grav cannons. That would be 30 Grav Cannon shots up to 24". Also if Tigurius manages to get GoI on his 1st or 2nd roll, then he could go for Divination primaris power and twin-link the Centurions.

That is a lot of points. 6 Dev Centurions costs 360 points base (based on the 60 points per model rumor), plus 165 for Tigirus, puts you at 525 points before you get Grav Cannons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mr.Church13 wrote:
If tigirius gets all that crap, I'm picking my powers from now on. The Wardian cinematics in 6th are already terrible and Eldar and tzeench get nothing compared to this spank-fest of a character.

As rumors stand right now, he does get all that crap. He's also the most powerful sanctioned psyker in the entire Imperium (mentally, we're not talking micro-MC Metiphiston style punching here, we're talking mind bullets). Tigurius is the only named psyker I can think of who has no Invul save without using powers. Heck, he only wears standard Power Armor. This makes him an extreme glass cannon. Lots of power, but no staying force.

Also I'm willing to bet his re-rolls for choosing powers only work on whatever charts he's rolling on, so I doubt he'll get to choose to roll on one chart to get a power and then roll on another chart so he can secure a different one.

You named another named psyker in your post that doesn't have an invunerable save.

ClockworkZion wrote:
Tigurius is the only named psyker I can think of who has no Invul save without using powers.

Mephiston.

ClockworkZion wrote:

Also I'm willing to bet his re-rolls for choosing powers only work on whatever charts he's rolling on, so I doubt he'll get to choose to roll on one chart to get a power and then roll on another chart so he can secure a different one.

Powers are rolled on a time, so no, I don't think he'll be able to go back and re-roll powers he's already chosen to keep, if that's what you're saying.

Eldercaveman wrote:You named another named psyker in your post that doesn't have an invunerable save.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
Tigurius is the only named psyker I can think of who has no Invul save without using powers.

Mephiston.

Fair enough. I forgot about him. 'Phiston is still tougher than Tigirus though. One has the psychic might, the other has a whole lotta brawn.

lord_blackfang wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

Also I'm willing to bet his re-rolls for choosing powers only work on whatever charts he's rolling on, so I doubt he'll get to choose to roll on one chart to get a power and then roll on another chart so he can secure a different one.

Powers are rolled on a time, so no, I don't think he'll be able to go back and re-roll powers he's already chosen to keep, if that's what you're saying.

I was actually referring to something I was sure I read where the idea of rolling on one chart, keeping one of those powers (from Divination) and then using your re-rolls on a different chart was proposed. I'm going to bet you can't do that.

Then again I may have not been fully awake at that time, so take that as you will.

ClockworkZion wrote:
Tigurius is the only named psyker I can think of who has no Invul save without using powers.

Ezekiel, Grand Master of the Librarians.

 Ironwill13791 wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
Tigurius is the only named psyker I can think of who has no Invul save without using powers.

Ezekiel, Grand Master of the Librarians.

He does not have an invulnerable save.

I'm wondering if Pedro's Hold the Line (sternguard scoring) rule will work across detachments. If so, I would love to do something like take Tigurius as the head HQ, and ally him with Pedro, then taking Sternguard in the UM FOC to get the rerolls to 1s while they are still scoring.

I'd have to take a 3rd Tac squad (ew...), but I guess there's some use for dual las-plas and a TL-Assault Cannon razorback.

Alternatively, if they'd give us a razorback variant with some anti-air........I'm just sayin'.

Odds are we probably can't get scoring sternguard across detachments, but hey, I can hope, right?

I'm still sore that we can't take Sternguard as troops though, and that GW seems dead set against giving IF sternguard any kind of rerolling...lame...

Front page is still missing this guy:

Polecat wrote:
So Tigurius gets to reroll when choosing his 3 powers? He seems to be the only farily reliable way to get Gate of Infinity. He has 33% chance on the first roll, 40% chance on the 2nd roll and 50% chance on his 3rd roll.

I was thinking Tigurius Gating a unit of 6 Devastator Centurions forward 24". That way they can get in range with their Grav cannons. That would be 30 Grav Cannon shots up to 24". Also if Tigurius manages to get GoI on his 1st or 2nd roll, then he could go for Divination primaris power and twin-link the Centurions.

Tigirius with 6 Grav Cannon Centurions does seem pretty raw, but I'd focus on protecting them instead of gating them around, mostly against armies that can get through their invul save. You can force Invisibility if the opposing army isn't rocking much ignores cover. Heck, even the FNP, IWND Biomancy power brings a lot to the table. However, I feel like rolling on Divination brings the most to the unit. Possibly ignoring cover, firing overwatch at full BS, getting that invul save the unit sorely needs, making your shooting targets reroll saving throws, or just twin-linking those chubby bastards are all strong possibilities. Use the reroll to avoid the other two derpalicious powers and call it a day.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

 Ironwill13791 wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
Tigurius is the only named psyker I can think of who has no Invul save without using powers.

Ezekiel, Grand Master of the Librarians.

He does not have an invulnerable save.

That was the point...

DogofWar1 wrote:
I'm wondering if Pedro's Hold the Line (sternguard scoring) rule will work across detachments. If so, I would love to do something like take Tigurius as the head HQ, and ally him with Pedro, then taking Sternguard in the UM FOC to get the rerolls to 1s while they are still scoring.

I'd have to take a 3rd Tac squad (ew...), but I guess there's some use for dual las-plas and a TL-Assault Cannon razorback.

Alternatively, if they'd give us a razorback variant with some anti-air........I'm just sayin'.

Odds are we probably can't get scoring sternguard across detachments, but hey, I can hope, right?

I'm still sore that we can't take Sternguard as troops though, and that GW seems dead set against giving IF sternguard any kind of rerolling...lame...

Typically, FOC modifiers apply to the primary detachment only, like Belial and Sammael. Anyway, how do you plan on using a C:SM list allied to a C:SM list?

From what I am hoping and interpreting from the rumors, it looks as if the new codex is designed to make us commit to a chapter and not to game the system to get all the cool abilities. In otherwords, it would require us to mke decisions.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:


Typically, FOC modifiers apply to the primary detachment only, like Belial and Sammael. Anyway, how do you plan on using a C:SM list allied to a C:SM list?

From what I am hoping and interpreting from the rumors, it looks as if the new codex is designed to make us commit to a chapter and not to game the system to get all the cool abilities. In otherwords, it would require us to mke decisions.

From the rumor roundup at: http://www.talkwargaming.com/2013/08/codex-space-marines-rumor-roll-up-part.html#ixzz2cEj5MHVZ

Characters from chapters can only be chosen by those specific chapters. For example: an army with the Chapter Tactics (Imperial Fists) can not take Forge Father Vulcan He'stan as part of the main detachment. Characters can still be shared through the use of allying one chapter to another, however.

Makes it sound like we can ally two chapters, primary and secondary detachment style.

And while FOC modifiers generally apply to only the primary detachment, the rules tend to mention "primary detachment" in the actual written rules, which would usually mean that if no mention of primary detachment is made then it can apply to any part of the army, primary or secondary attachment.

I'm fairly certain they won't make that oversight, but hey, I can hope, right?

Regardless, I just want Tigurius and Pedro together, so that I can roll 10 angry scoring sternguard out of a stormraven with Tigur giving them relentless (among other bonuses).

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

DogofWar1 wrote:
I'm wondering if Pedro's Hold the Line (sternguard scoring) rule will work across detachments. If so, I would love to do something like take Tigurius as the head HQ, and ally him with Pedro, then taking Sternguard in the UM FOC to get the rerolls to 1s while they are still scoring.

I'd have to take a 3rd Tac squad (ew...), but I guess there's some use for dual las-plas and a TL-Assault Cannon razorback.

Alternatively, if they'd give us a razorback variant with some anti-air........I'm just sayin'.

Odds are we probably can't get scoring sternguard across detachments, but hey, I can hope, right?

I'm still sore that we can't take Sternguard as troops though, and that GW seems dead set against giving IF sternguard any kind of rerolling...lame...

Typically, FOC modifiers apply to the primary detachment only, like Belial and Sammael. Anyway, how do you plan on using a C:SM list allied to a C:SM list?

From what I am hoping and interpreting from the rumors, it looks as if the new codex is designed to make us commit to a chapter and not to game the system to get all the cool abilities. In otherwords, it would require us to mke decisions.

Basically. But you could take a second chapter as allies it seems, but that creates new restrictions too. Like not sharing transports between the chapters.

From the original info:

Q: Can you mix your army. Like have some units be ultra marines and others be salamanders?
A: Yes. They're allowed to ally out of the same codex.

Q: When you say you can ally out of the same codex, is that through the actual ally rules, or that you can mix two armies and their Chapter tactics?
A: You have to ally the two detachments.

So while there are now more restrictions, they aren't preventing you from using the entire book, just limiting the combinations a bit. It's a method I rather like.

DogofWar1 wrote:
I'm wondering if Pedro's Hold the Line (sternguard scoring) rule will work across detachments. If so, I would love to do something like take Tigurius as the head HQ, and ally him with Pedro, then taking Sternguard in the UM FOC to get the rerolls to 1s while they are still scoring.

I'd have to take a 3rd Tac squad (ew...), but I guess there's some use for dual las-plas and a TL-Assault Cannon razorback.

Alternatively, if they'd give us a razorback variant with some anti-air........I'm just sayin'.

Odds are we probably can't get scoring sternguard across detachments, but hey, I can hope, right?

I'm still sore that we can't take Sternguard as troops though, and that GW seems dead set against giving IF sternguard any kind of rerolling...lame...

razorback with AA your getting 2 new tanks to do that.......
and remember your allied marines IF you get that, will go into an allies FOC not a full second chart
i would doubt that making the marines different "chapters" will allow cross allied detacments in one codex except for BT as they have their own spot on the allies chart. i mean, that would give the marines just another thing that the csm chapters missed out on... again... we need to buy 50$ books for that privelage

My take(as a player planning his first [Raven Guard] SM army):

- Shrike seems to only have gotten slightly worse. I would've liked to have seen a point decrease for him.
- Assault marines seem to be a bit better, taking the very slight point decrease and the various possible tweaks via Chapter Tactics into consideration. Would've been nice to have 5-point flamers though :p
- I'll be sad if Telion ends up being constrained to Ultramarine/successor players only.

Otherwise, a number of things to like.

It's not clear to me what happens to old 'chapter tactics' system of having an HQ replace combat tactics. Do HQ-provided special rules(like Shrike's fleet) now live alongside combat tactics instead of replacing it?

magodedisco wrote:

Polecat wrote:
So Tigurius gets to reroll when choosing his 3 powers? He seems to be the only farily reliable way to get Gate of Infinity. He has 33% chance on the first roll, 40% chance on the 2nd roll and 50% chance on his 3rd roll.

I was thinking Tigurius Gating a unit of 6 Devastator Centurions forward 24". That way they can get in range with their Grav cannons. That would be 30 Grav Cannon shots up to 24". Also if Tigurius manages to get GoI on his 1st or 2nd roll, then he could go for Divination primaris power and twin-link the Centurions.

Tigirius with 6 Grav Cannon Centurions does seem pretty raw, but I'd focus on protecting them instead of gating them around, mostly against armies that can get through their invul save. You can force Invisibility if the opposing army isn't rocking much ignores cover. Heck, even the FNP, IWND Biomancy power brings a lot to the table. However, I feel like rolling on Divination brings the most to the unit. Possibly ignoring cover, firing overwatch at full BS, getting that invul save the unit sorely needs, making your shooting targets reroll saving throws, or just twin-linking those chubby bastards are all strong possibilities. Use the reroll to avoid the other two derpalicious powers and call it a day.

Except that Centurion's can't fire overwatch since they are Slow and Purposeful.

Though, GoI, Precog, Perfect Timing grav-cannon centurions sounds pretty scary.

To bad Grav-cannons are garbage for TAC lists. :(

 Vaerros wrote:
My take(as a player planning his first [Raven Guard] SM army):

- Shrike seems to only have gotten slightly worse. I would've liked to have seen a point decrease for him.
- Assault marines seem to be a bit better, taking the very slight point decrease and the various possible tweaks via Chapter Tactics into consideration. Would've been nice to have 5-point flamers though :p
- I'll be sad if Telion ends up being constrained to Ultramarine/successor players only.

Otherwise, a number of things to like.

It's not clear to me what happens to old 'chapter tactics' system of having an HQ replace combat tactics. Do HQ-provided special rules(like Shrike's fleet) now live alongside combat tactics instead of replacing it?

Some of the characters who swapped out combat tactics for a different rule instead offer a new rule that works in addition to the Combat Tactic. Lysander has a re-roll leadership bubble for example and Vulkan twin-links Meltas.

Well, it sounds kind of strange if Imperial fist could not ally with Salamanders, but could have Treacherous Eldar running about in their deployment/comfort zone.

On the other hand, that argument work for every army that has different fluff fractions.

Guess Im not competetive enough to care if its double FOC or allies or whathaveyou.

One Question, but will the SM Codex put the Storm Talon and SR units into the Codex? or will they leave them out so you have to buy the Death from the sky supplement in order to use them?

 happygolucky wrote:
One Question, but will the SM Codex put the Storm Talon and SR units into the Codex? or will they leave them out so you have to buy the Death from the sky supplement in order to use them?

According to the rumour round up further up the page, they are both in the codex. And unchanged from the death from the skies version.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 happygolucky wrote:
One Question, but will the SM Codex put the Storm Talon and SR units into the Codex? or will they leave them out so you have to buy the Death from the sky supplement in order to use them?

According to the rumour round up further up the page, they are both in the codex. And unchanged from the death from the skies version.

Eldercaveman wrote:

 happygolucky wrote:
One Question, but will the SM Codex put the Storm Talon and SR units into the Codex? or will they leave them out so you have to buy the Death from the sky supplement in order to use them?

According to the rumour round up further up the page, they are both in the codex. And unchanged from the death from the skies version.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 happygolucky wrote:
One Question, but will the SM Codex put the Storm Talon and SR units into the Codex? or will they leave them out so you have to buy the Death from the sky supplement in order to use them?

According to the rumour round up further up the page, they are both in the codex. And unchanged from the death from the skies version.

Ok thanks

ClockworkZion wrote:

I was actually referring to something I was sure I read where the idea of rolling on one chart, keeping one of those powers (from Divination) and then using your re-rolls on a different chart was proposed. I'm going to bet you can't do that.

EDIT: I think I see what you mean now and I agree, he won't do that, because you roll powers one at a time, not all at once.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

I was actually referring to something I was sure I read where the idea of rolling on one chart, keeping one of those powers (from Divination) and then using your re-rolls on a different chart was proposed. I'm going to bet you can't do that.

EDIT: I think I see what you mean now and I agree, he won't do that, because you roll powers one at a time, not all at once.

Sad part is I'm not sure where I read the original comment that made me think about the situation. Joy of posting at before dawn when you're not quite awake I guess.

I kind of feel bad for the 40k Radio guys come Monday. A lot of people waiting to ask questions. I know I'm sitting on a list of things personally.

Crazyterran wrote:

magodedisco wrote:

Polecat wrote:
So Tigurius gets to reroll when choosing his 3 powers? He seems to be the only farily reliable way to get Gate of Infinity. He has 33% chance on the first roll, 40% chance on the 2nd roll and 50% chance on his 3rd roll.

I was thinking Tigurius Gating a unit of 6 Devastator Centurions forward 24". That way they can get in range with their Grav cannons. That would be 30 Grav Cannon shots up to 24". Also if Tigurius manages to get GoI on his 1st or 2nd roll, then he could go for Divination primaris power and twin-link the Centurions.

Tigirius with 6 Grav Cannon Centurions does seem pretty raw, but I'd focus on protecting them instead of gating them around, mostly against armies that can get through their invul save. You can force Invisibility if the opposing army isn't rocking much ignores cover. Heck, even the FNP, IWND Biomancy power brings a lot to the table. However, I feel like rolling on Divination brings the most to the unit. Possibly ignoring cover, firing overwatch at full BS, getting that invul save the unit sorely needs, making your shooting targets reroll saving throws, or just twin-linking those chubby bastards are all strong possibilities. Use the reroll to avoid the other two derpalicious powers and call it a day.

Except that Centurion's can't fire overwatch since they are Slow and Purposeful.

Though, GoI, Precog, Perfect Timing grav-cannon centurions sounds pretty scary.

To bad Grav-cannons are garbage for TAC lists. :(

Aw, didn't realize SnP can't overwatch. What a bummer.

Regarding Grav Cannons in TAC lists, the gun still has some mileage against a variety of targets- any variety of Marine, 2+/3+ MCs (obviously), mid to heavy vehicles (Land Raiders, Wave Serpents!!!), Terminators, Warp Spiders, Broadsides, Crisis Suits, Eldar Jetbikes, etc. I guess I'm trying to say it has viable targets against basically any list and the things that it can't handle- GEQ and Xenos troops, get taken out easily by a variety of cheap weapons (...bolters, especially if UM Tactical Doctrine is in use). The Grav Amp allowing wound rerolls ensures the squad will never be outright useless against a given list.