Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Mr.Church13 wrote:
If tigirius gets all that crap, I'm picking my powers from now on. The Wardian cinematics in 6th are already terrible and Eldar and tzeench get nothing compared to this spank-fest of a character.

Well good, I'll take blade storm, since its not fair that marines don't get that

 Lobukia wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:
If tigirius gets all that crap, I'm picking my powers from now on. The Wardian cinematics in 6th are already terrible and Eldar and tzeench get nothing compared to this spank-fest of a character.

Well good, I'll take blade storm, since its not fair that marines don't get that

I'll take battle focus while we are at it.

DogofWar1 wrote:
I'm still sore that we can't take Sternguard as troops though, and that GW seems dead set against giving IF sternguard any kind of rerolling...lame...

Yes, because GW doesn't want you to have scoring Sternguard that also reroll 1s to shoot. You have to choose one or the other.

 Vaerros wrote:
My take(as a player planning his first [Raven Guard] SM army):

- Shrike seems to only have gotten slightly worse. I would've liked to have seen a point decrease for him.
- Assault marines seem to be a bit better, taking the very slight point decrease and the various possible tweaks via Chapter Tactics into consideration. Would've been nice to have 5-point flamers though :p
- I'll be sad if Telion ends up being constrained to Ultramarine/successor players only.

Otherwise, a number of things to like.

It's not clear to me what happens to old 'chapter tactics' system of having an HQ replace combat tactics. Do HQ-provided special rules(like Shrike's fleet) now live alongside combat tactics instead of replacing it?

You wouldn't get the Stealth bonus, but it wouldn't be hard to ally in a squad of scouts with Telion (who have chapter tactics UM, so may be able to choose the reroll 1s one) and a cheap HQ.
Shrike didn't get any weaker, except he can no longer infiltrate anything he wants, just jump pack units.

Combat Tactics seems to be gone. ATSKNF is overpowered, but removing combat tactics nerfs it just a bit.
HQ provided special rules are a bonus to chapter tactics. You can only take a SC with the same chapter tactics as you chose for the detachment, but you don't need a SC to get the chapter tactics.

Well, fleet assault units (Ultra) is much better than packs in both phases (Raven) for actually getting there. Unsure if HoW worth it, Stealth is ok.

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Well, fleet assault units (Ultra) is much better than packs in both phases (Raven) for actually getting there. Unsure if HoW worth it, Stealth is ok.

I disagree. First off the Fleet on Assault Marines is almost exactly the same as being able to use the Jump Pack in the Assualt Phase as both let you re-roll your charges.

The Raven Guard get a 24" max charge range (12" move +12" max charge distance on a good roll). The UM Marines get a 12" move, and fleet charge or a 6" move and a re-rollable charge. It can still got 24" but the Raven Guard get a free hit on the way in adding to the number of wounds they can force on their targets. Really all the UM get is a re-rollable run roll, but I don't see why anyone would want that when they could have Stealth to keep their Assault Marines alive longer.

ClockworkZion wrote:

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Well, fleet assault units (Ultra) is much better than packs in both phases (Raven) for actually getting there. Unsure if HoW worth it, Stealth is ok.

Fleet Assault is almost exactly the same as being able to use the Jump Pack in the Assualt Phase as both let you re-roll your charges.

Well to be fair, he did say for the purpose of actually getting to the assault, so was probably referring to the ability to re-roll your run with Fleet.

Late to the party, but Double the cost for a Limited Edition Cover? WTF?

Good to see that BTs still keep some of their old flair. I'll be looking forward to seeing the book when it hits.

you'd be surprised how expensive a new cover would be. on books like these, especially at those small quantities. If they would've made 2k copies for each cover, it wouldve dropped the cost by about 30-40$

I just hope Drop Pods haven't changed.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

 Ironwill13791 wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
Tigurius is the only named psyker I can think of who has no Invul save without using powers.

Ezekiel, Grand Master of the Librarians.

He does not have an invulnerable save.

Exactly. I was correcting his statement that Tigurius is the only named psyker that does not have an invulnerable save w/o the use of powers.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 -Loki- wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

 Ironwill13791 wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
Tigurius is the only named psyker I can think of who has no Invul save without using powers.

Ezekiel, Grand Master of the Librarians.

He does not have an invulnerable save.

That was the point...

Thank you.

 ShatteredBlade wrote:
I just hope Drop Pods haven't changed.

The rumors say their capacity is dropped from 12 to 10.

Yeah, I admit I forgot about all the Psykers I never see because they don't have Invulnerable Saves. Librarians in Terminator Armor is usually what I've seen, so I forgot about that.

Teach me for playing Sisters for so long. XD

 wtwlf123 wrote:

 ShatteredBlade wrote:
I just hope Drop Pods haven't changed.

The rumors say their capacity is dropped from 12 to 10.

Up or down in price is what I'm concerned about. I'm not..wait..12 to 10? Well I suppose that changes a few things...

 ShatteredBlade wrote:

 wtwlf123 wrote:

 ShatteredBlade wrote:
I just hope Drop Pods haven't changed.

The rumors say their capacity is dropped from 12 to 10.

Up or down in price is what I'm concerned about. I'm not..wait..12 to 10? Well I suppose that changes a few things...

It was only 12 cause Matt Ward wanted to see if he could get away with it (he did). On every codex since, its been 10. Deal with it.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 ShatteredBlade wrote:

 wtwlf123 wrote:

 ShatteredBlade wrote:
I just hope Drop Pods haven't changed.

The rumors say their capacity is dropped from 12 to 10.

Up or down in price is what I'm concerned about. I'm not..wait..12 to 10? Well I suppose that changes a few things...

It was only 12 cause Matt Ward wanted to see if he could get away with it (he did). On every codex since, its been 10. Deal with it.

Actually it was 12 to allow for carrying a unit of 5 Terminators and a character in Terminator armor.

After seeing the rumors about chapter tactics, im concerned. I really want to have blood ravens tactics, yet they arent related to the first founding chapters (seeing as they are 1k sons loyalists). If the chapter tactics rumors are true, what tactics are we blood ravens fanboys supposed to choose?

Typed on XBox live.

I don't think it's too much of a stretch for a Drop Pod to have capacity for a full squad plus HQ. I feel all SM codices should. But whatever.

And you should really let go of the Ward hate.

 ace101 wrote:
After seeing the rumors about chapter tactics, im concerned. I really want to have blood ravens tactics, yet they arent related to the first founding chapters (seeing as they are 1k sons loyalists). If the chapter tactics rumors are true, what tactics are we blood ravens fanboys supposed to choose?

Typed on XBox live.

Drop Pods at 12 men was great as you could fit a full squad and a character, letting you combat squad when you drop. At the same time, though 10 means you have to make choices, and the model is clearly meant for 10.

Blood Ravens? No official founding chapter (unless they list one in the new codex) so pick what you want. I'd go with UM so you can run Tiggy and Telion.

God I hope that Pedro Kantor stays in there with somewhat the same rules or some extra tricks with Sternguard.

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:
God I hope that Pedro Kantor stays in there with somewhat the same rules or some extra tricks with Sternguard.

I just hope he no longer gives mandatory Stubborn. It is so much worse than ATSKNF this edition that it's not even funny. Just ask Dark Angels...

Eldercaveman wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:
If tigirius gets all that crap, I'm picking my powers from now on. The Wardian cinematics in 6th are already terrible and Eldar and tzeench get nothing compared to this spank-fest of a character.

Well good, I'll take blade storm, since its not fair that marines don't get that

I'll take battle focus while we are at it.

I'll take fast shot since the marines will OBVIOUSLY get something so much better than that.

Has there been any word on Thunderfire Cannons? I assume they'll go up a bit in points, but do we know how much? Will it have the same S and AP and rate of fire?

According to the rumors I've heard, it's the exact same as it is now

 tomjoad wrote:
Has there been any word on Thunderfire Cannons? I assume they'll go up a bit in points, but do we know how much? Will it have the same S and AP and rate of fire?

Rumors say they're staying the same rules and points wise.

Instead of repeating my thoughts a dozen times all over the place I went with doing a single post on my thoughts on these rumors: http://www.talkwargaming.com/2013/08/codex-space-marine-rumors-closer-look.html

Plus if you haven't had a chance to see all the rumored rules so far, there they are!

 tomjoad wrote:
Has there been any word on Thunderfire Cannons? I assume they'll go up a bit in points, but do we know how much? Will it have the same S and AP and rate of fire?

Regarding TFC's, I can't imagine them touching them at all (which fits the rumor as well. After being tabled all of 5th edition, I'm hoping it gets to stay awesome.

ClockworkZion wrote:

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Well, fleet assault units (Ultra) is much better than packs in both phases (Raven) for actually getting there. Unsure if HoW worth it, Stealth is ok.

I disagree. First off the Fleet on Assault Marines is almost exactly the same as being able to use the Jump Pack in the Assualt Phase as both let you re-roll your charges.

The Raven Guard get a 24" max charge range (12" move +12" max charge distance on a good roll). The UM Marines get a 12" move, and fleet charge or a 6" move and a re-rollable charge. It can still got 24" but the Raven Guard get a free hit on the way in adding to the number of wounds they can force on their targets. Really all the UM get is a re-rollable run roll, but I don't see why anyone would want that when they could have Stealth to keep their Assault Marines alive longer.

Fleet allows you to roll individual dice...so if you get a 6 and a 1 you can just reroll the 1. Jump packs must reroll both dice together if you don't like the sum.

magodedisco wrote:

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:
God I hope that Pedro Kantor stays in there with somewhat the same rules or some extra tricks with Sternguard.

I just hope he no longer gives mandatory Stubborn. It is so much worse than ATSKNF this edition that it's not even funny. Just ask Dark Angels...

Consider that Stubborn didn't replace/remove ATSKNF... (seriously, people complain about ATSKNF and don't know exactly what it does?)

And there is no more Combat Tactics to let us choose to run away... hopefully it's one of our Warlord Traits >.>

ductvader wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Well, fleet assault units (Ultra) is much better than packs in both phases (Raven) for actually getting there. Unsure if HoW worth it, Stealth is ok.

I disagree. First off the Fleet on Assault Marines is almost exactly the same as being able to use the Jump Pack in the Assualt Phase as both let you re-roll your charges.

The Raven Guard get a 24" max charge range (12" move +12" max charge distance on a good roll). The UM Marines get a 12" move, and fleet charge or a 6" move and a re-rollable charge. It can still got 24" but the Raven Guard get a free hit on the way in adding to the number of wounds they can force on their targets. Really all the UM get is a re-rollable run roll, but I don't see why anyone would want that when they could have Stealth to keep their Assault Marines alive longer.

Fleet allows you to roll individual dice...so if you get a 6 and a 1 you can just reroll the 1. Jump packs must reroll both dice together if you don't like the sum.

That's a fair point. I still feel that the Raven Guard got a good set of rules.

Crazyterran wrote:

magodedisco wrote:

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:
God I hope that Pedro Kantor stays in there with somewhat the same rules or some extra tricks with Sternguard.

I just hope he no longer gives mandatory Stubborn. It is so much worse than ATSKNF this edition that it's not even funny. Just ask Dark Angels...

Consider that Stubborn didn't replace/remove ATSKNF... (seriously, people complain about ATSKNF and don't know exactly what it does?)

And there is no more Combat Tactics to let us choose to run away... hopefully it's one of our Warlord Traits >.>

That would be insane if we could get the original Combat Tactics as a Warlord Trait. Goodness.