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How about if the guy had no interest in Chaos or SM of any type. He played Orks and only orks and didn't want to sell them on. To me it looks like a niche inside a niche inside a niche.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I think Cincy made a good point that has not been pondered much: Who's the target demographic for this product.

1)It's not the efficiency concerned individual who wants things small and light. DV does that.

2)No limited edition, so I have a hard time thinking this is aimed at collectors (although the term can mean different things to different people, in my mind collectors go after something that has more value-added than a general release product)

3)Definitely not those who love the universe.

4)Those who, a year out, have not bought either the BRB or DV... but what's the incentive except, marginally, the price? Because it is, overall, cheaper. If you're only looking at the price tag and nothing else.

It might be to collectors, who've got a special edition BRB and want a fancier small book to use day-to-day.


I'm the target customer for this; I've already got an army (so don't need DV) and I'm not interested in the fluff or hobby stuff in the BRB.

However, it's [a] still £10 too expensive. At £20 I'd have bought one, [b] hard-back, so more of a nuisance to flick through and [c] well over a year late; I already bought the BRB to play with until DV came out, sold the BRB, bought DV and sold off the mini's. Net result is I paid about £6 for the mini-book.

So it's of no use to me. Now, come 7th Edition, I might hold out for a mini-book

It's sad that it's so expensive. If it was fairly priced, I could see our clubs getting a few but at that horrendous price tag, I'd rather continue searching ebay for the starter one. I'd pay up to 20€ for it.

I can buy the real thing for the same price from discounter here. I paid $99 for mine and this new one retails for $98 in NZ.

Although saying that, I would be able to get this at discount to. If only they came out with this on release day, I would have purchased this over the big book straight away.

6th edition has been around for a while now, most people know the rules, why bother gw?

 Deadshot wrote:
How about if the guy had no interest in Chaos or SM of any type. He played Orks and only orks and didn't want to sell them on. To me it looks like a niche inside a niche inside a niche.

not reallly. Want the rulebook but don't want to buy the big bad version? Buy this.

xruslanx wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
How about if the guy had no interest in Chaos or SM of any type. He played Orks and only orks and didn't want to sell them on. To me it looks like a niche inside a niche inside a niche.

not reallly. Want the rulebook but don't want to buy the big bad version? Buy this.

More like "Want the rules but don't want the big bad version, or to get/split the DV box or buy the DV rules from somewhere else? Buy this."

Pros to DV version: soft-cover*. £15 at most.

Pros to GW mini-version: hard-cover*, 3 bookmark ribbons.

*Some people prefer softbacks to hardbacks, YMMV.

I know I tend to prefer the price tag of the soft cover, although I do end up messing them up through carrying it around though.

Although I will say this, I greatly regret buying DV in its French version. The USR rules were translated, but the alphabetical order of English was kept. So unless you know the name of the rule in English, good luck finding it fast.

BUt I'd much rather buy a second DV set in English and divvy up the minis with someone else than buy this. Cuz, hey, minis.

I prefer hardbacks for some reason on rule books. If this came out before or at the same time as the big book, i probably would have bought the mini one, as much as i like fluff it's not htat practicle to carry around...

as for who buys it.. same people who go into thte store and buy things now.

BY DV, unless you don't play chaos or dark angels, don't care about those minis, don't want the hassle of trying to sell them just to save a few bux... not everyone in the hobby shops around for the best deal or wants to hassle with selling or buying used... that's who it's marketed for.

So what you're saying is this'll appear in the sidebar of every "one click bundle" on GW's website.

Herzlos wrote:
I'm the target customer for this; I've already got an army (so don't need DV) and I'm not interested in the fluff or hobby stuff in the BRB.

However, it's [a] still £10 too expensive. At £20 I'd have bought one, [b] hard-back, so more of a nuisance to flick through and [c] well over a year late; I already bought the BRB to play with until DV came out, sold the BRB, bought DV and sold off the mini's. Net result is I paid about £6 for the mini-book.

So it's of no use to me. Now, come 7th Edition, I might hold out for a mini-book

To be honest, if you've owned any BRB for background then you're just going to be repeat-reading in the new one.

A bit of nice new artwork.. spend about 15 mins reading the rules changes from the previous edition.. ?

That's been my MO since about 4th edition actually, has saved me a lot of money

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I know I tend to prefer the price tag of the soft cover, although I do end up messing them up through carrying it around though.

Although I will say this, I greatly regret buying DV in its French version. The USR rules were translated, but the alphabetical order of English was kept. So unless you know the name of the rule in English, good luck finding it fast.

BUt I'd much rather buy a second DV set in English and divvy up the minis with someone else than buy this. Cuz, hey, minis.

How I understand you ! Searching for a special rule in French is browsing through a mess.

Even worse are the translation issues, sure most of the times french BRB is accurate, but sometimes it is weird or obviously based upon a beta version of the final text !

One example : the french text has this @ p.35 about fearless USR :
(...) A fearless model cannot get a better cover save than 5+ (meaning any cover save of 4+ or better is reduced to 5+).
Really WTF ! Where this comes from ?!?
Granted, this has been removed by a french FAQ, but not all of these discrepancies have been corrected. One of them being even treacherous.


So...
I've still not bought any copy of the rules, waiting for a good opportunity. I was not obliged to, thanks to my gaming club having purchased a BRB available to all members. So I have restrained myself to this point, and even more, having learnt that a new small book was in the pipeline. Now, what should I do ?

I could still consider buying dark vengeance box to get the mini-book in my language (and more templates). It is way more convenient in tournaments.
This mini BRB does not appears to be a bargain, to say the least. However, between purchasing the DV mini-rulebook from England at increased postal fees, and the new mini BRB for a few € more, and basically free postage from GW, I'm undecided.

Is it true that this new small form factor book has all current errata included in their appropriate position ?

 Ravajaxe wrote:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I know I tend to prefer the price tag of the soft cover, although I do end up messing them up through carrying it around though.

Although I will say this, I greatly regret buying DV in its French version. The USR rules were translated, but the alphabetical order of English was kept. So unless you know the name of the rule in English, good luck finding it fast.

BUt I'd much rather buy a second DV set in English and divvy up the minis with someone else than buy this. Cuz, hey, minis.

How I understand you ! Searching for a special rule in French is browsing through a mess.

Even worse are the translation issues, sure most of the times french BRB is accurate, but sometimes it is weird or obviously based upon a beta version of the final text !

One example : the french text has this @ p.35 about fearless USR :
(...) A fearless model cannot get a better cover save than 5+ (meaning any cover save of 4+ or better is reduced to 5+).
Really WTF ! Where this comes from ?!?
Granted, this has been removed by a french FAQ, but not all of these discrepancies have been corrected. One of them being even treacherous.


So...
I've still not bought any copy of the rules, waiting for a good opportunity. I was not obliged to, thanks to my gaming club having purchased a BRB available to all members. So I have restrained myself to this point, and even more, having learnt that a new small book was in the pipeline. Now, what should I do ?

I could still consider buying dark vengeance box to get the mini-book in my language (and more templates). It is way more convenient in tournaments.
This mini BRB does not appears to be a bargain, to say the least. However, between purchasing the DV mini-rulebook from England at increased postal fees, and the new mini BRB for a few € more, and basically free postage from GW, I'm undecided.

Is it true that this new small form factor book has all current errata included in their appropriate position ?

The Polish BRB allows you to charge after disembarking

 Ravajaxe wrote:

Is it true that this new small form factor book has all current errata included in their appropriate position ?

It looks like that bit probably only applies to the iPAD version rather than the printed one

(but until somebody has it in hand it's hard to tell)

On the topic of rules and value, I got FoW's Open Fire yesterday, which contains a mini-rule book that is leagues ahead of the DV book. I actually thought it was the full one until I checked the website. For £35 (£5 more than GW's basic mini-book) you can get:

The third edition of Flames Of War, The World War II Miniatures Game is a massive 448 page book split across three volumes: Rulebook (Hardback) 308 Pages, Forces (Softback) 100 Pages, Hobby (Softback) 40 Pages.

And the rule book itself contains all the rules, all the army lists / special rules and a big section on missions/scenarios.

It's hard to justify the 40K books compared to that.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

 Ravajaxe wrote:

Is it true that this new small form factor book has all current errata included in their appropriate position ?

It looks like that bit probably only applies to the iPAD version rather than the printed one

(but until somebody has it in hand it's hard to tell)

This is the only reason I would buy this.
I have the DV softback, and the collector's ed, so the only difference this hew hardback book would have is better rules.
If they bothered to update them.

If I spent #30 on a book I would hardly use it for fear of ruining it, like with the limited addition Black Library ones.

I think this is a good idea, but the price, even for the ebook version, seems a little steep to me.

Buying another hard copy rulebook, even though it is updated, also seems to be a bit unproductive as in time I am sure they will release even more Erratas to correct rules, at least with the ebook version it will be updated as and when these are released. I haven't actually ever bought an ebook so aren't entirely sure if this would be the case, I know on the ipad they update them.

 Ravajaxe wrote:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
snip

Although I will say this, I greatly regret buying DV in its French version. The USR rules were translated, but the alphabetical order of English was kept. So unless you know the name of the rule in English, good luck finding it fast.

snip.

How I understand you ! Searching for a special rule in French is browsing through a mess.

Even worse are the translation issues, sure most of the times french BRB is accurate, but sometimes it is weird or obviously based upon a beta version of the final text !

One example : the french text has this @ p.35 about fearless USR :
(...) A fearless model cannot get a better cover save than 5+ (meaning any cover save of 4+ or better is reduced to 5+).
Really WTF ! Where this comes from ?!?
Granted, this has been removed by a french FAQ, but not all of these discrepancies have been corrected. One of them being even treacherous.


snip

Fearless being a rule I rarely need to reference, I'd never picked up on that. This is... I don't want to say insane... more like disappointing. If you've never had the pleasure of being conquered by the greatest empire in the world, then your rules will be innacurate. Enjoy.