Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Blacksails wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
Mordian Iron Guard supplement please.

While there are few things in this world that would please me more, I won't get my hopes up.

Why not? For a couple of pages of rules, a couple of scenarios, some pictures and some coder time, you have a $39.99 supplement. More or less free money for GW. I'd frankly be surprised if they *dont* do something like that.

Valete,

JohnS

No appropriate minis, no supplement.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:
I don't like the sound of this. Cutting the HQ choices down to one choice is dumb and removes flavor from the army. Removing all non-cadians is even worse, as then we get Codex: Cadians and not Codex: Imperial Guard

Giving the salamander as a dedicated transport for command units makes no sense, especially sense there already is a command version of the salamander. Why give Command squads access to the scout tank but not the command and control tank?

Vendettas going up 15 points changes almost nothing. They should be 175, any less is undercoated.

We are not getting the thunderer/destroyer. Neither are we getting the salamander. Both are FW kits and both already have their roles filled by other things in the IG book.

The only thing that makes some sense in this list is the veterans change. Dropping a special weapon puts them in line with FWs rules for veterans and helps to balance out the special weapons spam. Even better if veteran sergeants can all give orders. Might make up for the loss of a gun.

HWS wont be 10 men. Don't get your hopes up.

Every kit listed besides the cadian veterans probably wont happen. There simply isn't a reason to make new kits when some of the core IG units don't even have kits. (Hydras and ordnance batteries, I am looking at you) Not to mention kits that are super old (ogrns) or hard to find (storm troopers).

These rumors get a whole mines worth of salt.

I wouldn't put it past GW to drop some of the units that don't have kits to save themselves effort. Especially for ones that are available in forgeworld, like the griffon or the colossus.

That would be REALLY unlikely though (I hope)

I really doubt that. Yes, they are FW, but GW has not dropped any units in a 6th ed book (BT being folded to C:SM notwithstanding).

Dropping three to four units just so they don't have to make kits is stupid and nonsensical. I wouldn't think GW was even that stupid.

Actually it makes prefect sense. First we know GW will not release rules without models any more.

Second several of the niche units (Ratlings, Ogryns, RR) are still available in metal, not finecast.

Third the new codex will have at least 5 new items. These units will be given rules to sell them. Niche units don't sell well, thus no new kits.

So I would bet New Storm Troopers and maybe one niche unit, a new flyer, and two tank kits. The rest go away.

In an interesting addition to that, it would only take a single sprue's worth of parts in the leman Russ kit to allow thunderers and destroyers. You're just swapping out the original hull mounted weapon for a new one and covering the hole where the turret was with an armor plate.

It would also allow them to jack up the price on the leman Russ boxes, something we know GW likes to do. The Valkyrie kit will do the same if they add vendetta parts.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
Actually it makes prefect sense. First we know GW will not release rules without models any more.

Second several of the niche units (Ratlings, Ogryns, RR) are still available in metal, not finecast.

Third the new codex will have at least 5 new items. These units will be given rules to sell them. Niche units don't sell well, thus no new kits.

So I would bet New Storm Troopers and maybe one niche unit, a new flyer, and two tank kits. The rest go away.

My apologies but where are my greater daemon named character models? I still cannot find my Khornate beast that has broken wings nor my Great Unclean One that rides nurglings . I'd agree that they rarely won't make a model but these two models represent that, at least from my understanding, shows a precedence for them having rules for a model they do not produce.

(then again.... chaos daemons were never all that popular.... and a named character is something most people buy at most two of rarely even that)

With that in mind, I find it more likely that they will be re-releasing the Hellhound, Leman Russ boxes, and basilisks with more options allowing them to increase the price of that one vehicle even further whilst having a way to represent every single weapon.

The Chaos Daemons were released before the Chapterhouse lawsuit verdict, leading to the current method for new releases.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
The Chaos Daemons were released before the Chapterhouse lawsuit verdict, leading to the current method for new releases.

Oh! My apologies then. I had presumed that the chaos daemon codex was recent enough that it would have been after that. Apologies! (whelp next edition I know what two new models they are releasing!)

Sounds pretty cool, but i really enjoyed bodyguards in the CCS, however a new veteran kit sounds amazing, my plan is to have my entire army converted with brettonian heads on cadian bodies, and if another cadian kit comes out that means MOAR CONVERSIONS PARTS ERMAHGERD. Although i'm not please with some aspects of the current codex, i may just forgive the removal of bodyguards if they actually make the bloody elites (ratlings, rough riders, etc) actually worth a glance. Ogryn are awesome but overpriced, and rough riders could be forgone if we just blow the terminators to bits with a demolisher, i want a USE FOR MY HORSIES DAMMIT!

Ranting aside, can't wait!

Rather than clog this thread with wish lists I started a wish list thread.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/549999.page#6013771

 Happygrunt wrote:
I don't like the sound of this. Cutting the HQ choices down to one choice is dumb and removes flavor from the army. Removing all non-cadians is even worse, as then we get Codex: Cadians and not Codex: Imperial Guard

Giving the salamander as a dedicated transport for command units makes no sense, especially sense there already is a command version of the salamander. Why give Command squads access to the scout tank but not the command and control tank?

Vendettas going up 15 points changes almost nothing. They should be 175, any less is undercoated.

We are not getting the thunderer/destroyer. Neither are we getting the salamander. Both are FW kits and both already have their roles filled by other things in the IG book.

The only thing that makes some sense in this list is the veterans change. Dropping a special weapon puts them in line with FWs rules for veterans and helps to balance out the special weapons spam. Even better if veteran sergeants can all give orders. Might make up for the loss of a gun.

HWS wont be 10 men. Don't get your hopes up.

Every kit listed besides the cadian veterans probably wont happen. There simply isn't a reason to make new kits when some of the core IG units don't even have kits. (Hydras and ordnance batteries, I am looking at you) Not to mention kits that are super old (ogrns) or hard to find (storm troopers).

These rumors get a whole mines worth of salt.

^This.

I would add the charging out of a chimera thing. I mean, seriously. The land raider is an assault tank because the access/exit ramp is in the FRONT. The chimera's ONLY access point is in the REAR.

Important thing to remember: PLAYTEST DOCUMENTS ARE NOT NECESSARILY A COMPLETE CODEX. Even if a playtest document doesn't include any non-Cadian characters that doesn't mean those characters won't be in the final book, it just means they weren't being tested at that moment.

Veterans going to two special weapons is so unbelievably stupid that I want to call this a fake. Doing that kills their entire reason for existing and reduces IG to nothing more than platoon spam for troops.

The Salamander makes a lot of sense. Not because it's a great unit/model, but because it's an easy dual kit with the Griffon. If GW finally decides to make a plastic Griffon kit throwing in a couple extra parts to make a Salamander is pretty easy if there's space available on one of the sprues.

Destroyer/Thunderer is the same. A Destroyer wouldn't be bad (especially with new rules to make it less of a waste of points), and once you have the Destroyer sprue added to the LRBT kit adding a demolisher cannon to make it a Thunderer is easy. And as an added bonus this gets rid of one of the oldest FW kits that suffers from bad fit problems.

The Vendetta is not going anywhere. The model exists, and the precedent is clearly established that the guns are mounted on external hardpoints that leave the entire transport compartment untouched. Yes, the Vendetta should have been the Vulture, but the time to do that was the last codex. Now it is too late.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
If we're wishlisting... I want to see them redo Ogryns again. They're insanely costed at the moment, with pitiful Leadership and no options. Though really, they haven't been playable since the crazy days of 2nd edition, so they might as well drop them from the army altogether, since it doesn't seem like they have the ability to get them right.

Out of interest, Aga, what would they need to be "right"?

Lower points costs, being harder to break and not having a five man unit cost 210 points would all be fine places to start.

 Peregrine wrote:
Yes, the Vendetta should have been the Vulture, but the time to do that was the last codex. Now it is too late.

While true, this will eventually mean each book with suffocate under the weight of its history, with every single slot overloaded with gimmicky crap from years and editions ago, because nothing is allowed to be removed.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
While true, this will eventually mean each book with suffocate under the weight of its history, with every single slot overloaded with gimmicky crap from years and editions ago, because nothing is allowed to be removed.

The worst offenses can be removed as an absolute last resort. But the Vendetta doesn't need that, it just needs a point increase to reflect its new flyer rules. And TBH this is a compelling argument to stop adding gimmicks, GW needs to learn that it's ok to release a book with updated rules and no new units. For example, the new marine centurions: there's absolutely no reason for those models to exist and if GW would just show a little self-control we wouldn't have to worry about what to do about the people who bought them when it's time to start thinking about the next marine codex.

 Happygrunt wrote:

HWS wont be 10 men. Don't get your hopes up.

Well they badly need a survivability upgrade. They either need eternal warrior or some meatshields and this rumour suggests the latter, they certainly wont be getting 5 heavy weapons whatever happens.

This is a 'playtest' codex from a source with a less than stellar accuracy record, no point getting over excited for the moment.

Please allow squad Sgts to take lasguns again, please?

Although these changes seem interesting,i believe that priority would be releasing all the plastic kits should have been released since 2008. Also,charging vets unit seems an interesting addition

 Peregrine wrote:

The Vendetta is not going anywhere. The model exists, and the precedent is clearly established that the guns are mounted on external hardpoints that leave the entire transport compartment untouched. Yes, the Vendetta should have been the Vulture, but the time to do that was the last codex. Now it is too late.

Godhammer Landraiders and Razorbacks both rely on internal capacitors to run lascannons, thus reducing transport capacity, while predators, fire prisms, and hammerheads eliminate it completely. There's plenty of precedent for GW to say "glue those hatches shut, because this thing ain't carrying dudes anymore."

I'm not saying they will do that, just that they could.

Or drop capacity to 6, like a razorback.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Gomericus wrote:
I wonder what the 10 man heavy weapons squads will mean and what will happen to the basic platoon,,,hope they do not nerf foot builds

5 heavy weapon teams?

I do not think a change to 10-man heavy weapon squads would mean a nerf to the foot guard builds.
Quite the opposite, it would open up army composition options outside of just : separate platoon squads or big blob squad.

 Palindrome wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:

HWS wont be 10 men. Don't get your hopes up.

Well they badly need a survivability upgrade. They either need eternal warrior or some meatshields and this rumour suggests the latter, they certainly wont be getting 5 heavy weapons whatever happens.
This is a 'playtest' codex from a source with a less than stellar accuracy record, no point getting over excited for the moment.
Please allow squad Sgts to take lasguns again, please?

This. HWS desperately need survivability upgrade. We are far from a proved source, but if true, these rumours go in the right direction.

Current IG platoon organisation dates back to 2nd edition, so it may be fluffy but is obsolete. Squads made of pure HWT were quite playable in 2nd or 3rd edition (and somewhat in 4th too) due to target priority rules, that limited the possibilities for the opponent to shoot them. Their survivability has been worsening throughout the game's editions. Now, HWS are laughable easy kills, in the STR 6-7 plenty-full environment.
I rarely see them deployed even in soft environment games, and do not field them myself, outside of one mortar squad that can take advantage of LOS blocking terrain deep in my deployment zone
Despite of a cheap price, anything else is unplayable.

Other armies do not have such glaring problems with their heavy weapons infantry. Eldar heavy platforms have extraordinary toughness, SM devastators have access to ablative wounds and 3+ save,Tau broadsides have 2+ save and access to drones etc... In fact, half of the flavorful platoon components are not attractive at all.

The cadian squad sprues are old (2003), waste space, do not take full advantage of current GW's moulding technology, and two of them are needed to make a single infantry squad.
A redo of these infantry sprues can open up reorganisation of HWS boxes, so in special weapon squad and HWS composition.
I'm dreaming of a squad of 3 teams plus 4 grunts with a possibility of a sergeant for LD 8.

 Peregrine wrote:
GW needs to learn that it's ok to release a book with updated rules and no new units.

I fear you might not fully understand how GW makes money.

 Ravajaxe wrote:
Their survivability has been worsening throughout the game's editions. Now, HWS are laughable easy kills, in the STR 6-7 plenty-full environment.

Not even that, 6 wounds @ T4, and 5+ armour; means you just need 6 hits with AP5 to wipe them out , or 4 hits and a bad leadership role (so a squad of marines with bolters: 3+ to hit, 4+ to kill, no save).

I still field them, but I've noticed they do almost no damage in most games before getting wiped out. So I would appreciate something to beef them up even if it's just ablative wounds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
GW needs to learn that it's ok to release a book with updated rules and no new units.

I fear you might not fully understand how GW makes money.

They could make money by making less popular kits more desirable, rather than trying to shoehorn completely new kits into the game. Making Ogryns better and providing a plastic kit would (IHMO) make them as much as introducing a completely new unit, whilst not appearing totally cynical.

A book with updated rules and no new units? That's bonkers players of that army would go nuts.

This doesn't say anything about new models other than a chimera upgrade kit, so it's nonsense.

It needs to be more about the MEN!!!!

Wishilisting at its best...

Orders that allow squadron members to shoot at different targets...

Might make taking them helpful.

I'm really curious what would happen with a new IG codex for the models alone. Space Marines have been the only exception to the rule (since, well, they're Space Marines) but every release has had 3 plastic boxes and one plastic blister. GW hasn't been keen on making more metals into Finecast or making new Finecast models lately, so what are we really looking at? It seems pretty likely that Ratilngs and Ogryn would get their own kits, but that's 2 out of 3 of the plastic kits for this release. That just seems pretty limiting for a codex release when they can't put out any new units. Maybe I'm full of it, but that's just my speculating.

Maybe we'll get a plastic Commissar blister? Good point, I haven't seen a single rumor mention anything about our "inevitable" plastic character. Its either commissar, priest, or tech priest. I don't know of any other characters different enough to warrant a plastic blister.

I'll guess a single guardsman from one of the vanished metal ranges.....

so folk can go out and buy 100s of them to create their regiments again

 Polonius wrote:
Godhammer Landraiders and Razorbacks both rely on internal capacitors to run lascannons, thus reducing transport capacity, while predators, fire prisms, and hammerheads eliminate it completely. There's plenty of precedent for GW to say "glue those hatches shut, because this thing ain't carrying dudes anymore."

I'm not saying they will do that, just that they could.

Except we already have a Vendetta model and it clearly has the lascannons using external battery packs (presumably outside the scope of the game the Vendetta has limited ammunition while the marine tanks can keep firing for months if they need to). If GW says "glue the hatches shut" it would be a stupid and pointless contradiction.

Model wise, the Imperial Guard need a lot work, probably some of the most work alongside CSM and Eldar.

Consider:

Every elite choice is metal still, not even finecast. Stormtroopers, Ogryn, Ratlings.

For HQ, only Creed, kell and the Comissar Lord are in Finecrap, everything else is metal.

In troops, both plastic Cadians and Catachans are oooold, and out-dated, both in aesthetic and sprue content, much like the replaced tactical marine kit. There is also no model for Penal Legion or Veterans of any variety.

In heavy support, we've got the full tank roster, and the kits are fairly modern, 2008 I believe, but we're missing all but the Basilisk for artillery, save for Forgeworld. There is also no Hydra.


At the end of the day, the codex is missing like 1/3 of its models, with another 1/4 only available in metal. The range is mostly ancient or non-existant, and yet somehow it's one of the best selling armies. Just to fill in the missing models would put a Guard release at the largest yet, even moreso to get the metals replaced.

The mairne release was nothing shocking; re-do the oldest troop kit in existance, and the best selling kit, replace some finecast, obligatory unwanted, half-baked new unit, and some much needed AA and anti-MC weapons added.

For the Guard, there's so much missing or in need of replacement, moreso than I'd say any other army, I have no idea what GW will do; Hydra and multi-artillery boxes are safe bets, but beyond that, here be dragons.