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Man I really hope we don't get an action figure, cool as Knights are an everything, they should limit that stuff to apoc, obviously the stable door is well open now but SM didn't get one so there's hope.

I actually would love to have one. That way i wont have to ally in space marines for an Ironclad to have awesome giant robot and giant monster fights.


Also, I want a Leman Russ variant with the Centurion Gravity Cannon and grav amp on it. Good bye riptide.

 RandyMcStab wrote:
Man I really hope we don't get an action figure, cool as Knights are an everything, they should limit that stuff to apoc, obviously the stable door is well open now but SM didn't get one so there's hope.

Dark Angels also didn't get one. Neither did Demons. Imperial Guard quite clearly won't get one, that rumour goes somewhere alongside "GW are going to up the price of tactical squads to £100" in terms of validity.

I call bs on the robots. The knight paladin is only slightly believable to me because of GW's new fondness for big MC models. If rumors hold true about the Vendetta being just a loadout for the Valkyrie, then the Thunderbolt may be true, but doubt it bit because if I recall Thunderbolts are FW territory.

IG Veterans/Stormtroopers (plastic 5-man box)

Make it 10 men you stingy sons of beaches

ultimentra wrote:I actually would love to have one. That way i wont have to ally in space marines for an Ironclad to have awesome giant robot and giant monster fights.

Also, I want a Leman Russ variant with the Centurion Gravity Cannon and grav amp on it. Good bye riptide.

Because firepower is one thing Imperial Guard lacks...

 Snrub wrote:

IG Veterans/Stormtroopers (plastic 5-man box)

Make it 10 men you stingy sons of beaches

Though I like the way you think, you and I and every realistic Dakkanaut knows they will be 5-man if they are done at all... :(

-C6

If guard were to get something like chapter tactics, what would fit for the major regiments you reckon? Black Templar have the option for extra units and disabling other units, this would fit well with a lot of regiments too.

Cadians could emphasise orders and discipline but lock out abhumans, Catachans could go for stealth and scouting but lock out commissars, DKK fearless, Tallarn hit and run, so many options. Tanith lock out melta, plasma and lascannon but add extra snipers to squads and army wide camo cloaks. Really hope GW goes for something like that.

 catharsix wrote:
Though I like the way you think, you and I and every realistic Dakkanaut knows they will be 5-man if they are done at all... :(

-C6

I know and that's what's makes me cry.

 Yonan wrote:
If guard were to get something like chapter tactics, what would fit for the major regiments you reckon? Black Templar have the option for extra units and disabling other units, this would fit well with a lot of regiments too.

Cadians could emphasise orders and discipline but lock out abhumans, Catachans could go for stealth and scouting but lock out commissars, DKK fearless, Tallarn hit and run, so many options. Tanith lock out melta, plasma and lascannon but add extra snipers to squads and army wide camo cloaks. Really hope GW goes for something like that.

I like that idea but i can't help but think it would alienate homebrew regiments. One of those good in theory things.

I think there is a serious question here, will Guard get Grav weapons? Aside from the variant SM factions, will they spread throughout the Imperial forces or remain SM only?

We don't need grav weapons. We need cheaper infantry...

Cheaper as in points or actual dollars per unit?

I look forward to the thunderbolt assuming a plastic variant is made.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Go look at the Tau, Eldar, or DA fliers and then try to justify the Vendetta costing 30-50 points less than those.

[ a bunch of stuff about Heldrakes and Night Scythes ]

0 for 3 on this one...

Uh-huh.

Well, he was answering the other part of your quote, which you seem to have conveniently mislaid...

 Civik wrote:
Cheaper as in points or actual dollars per unit?

Dollar wise. $48 for 10 guardsmen is too much considering we used to be able to get 20 men for $50. Though i wouldn't say no to 3pt guardsman.

 Snrub wrote:

 Yonan wrote:
If guard were to get something like chapter tactics, what would fit for the major regiments you reckon? Black Templar have the option for extra units and disabling other units, this would fit well with a lot of regiments too.

Cadians could emphasise orders and discipline but lock out abhumans, Catachans could go for stealth and scouting but lock out commissars, DKK fearless, Tallarn hit and run, so many options. Tanith lock out melta, plasma and lascannon but add extra snipers to squads and army wide camo cloaks. Really hope GW goes for something like that.

I like that idea but i can't help but think it would alienate homebrew regiments. One of those good in theory things.

No more so than they did for space marines though surely? Homebrew regiments can choose whichever one they like just as space marines can.

Heh, one of my friends thinks that guardsmen should be made BS 2 and that veterans should be BS 3.

No I say, no.

If they do a doctrine/traits thing, it should be by regiment type

Eg: Infantry, Reconnaissance, Drop Troops, Mechanized, Combat Engineers etc

One thing I will say is we don't see Death Korps recognized in the codex in any big way; they're FW's baby now.

Regimental Doctrines would make me extremely happy, and the SM precedent is there, but the Chaos precedent is also not there, so it could go either way I think. There's some easy ways to do it too, 2 orders for Cadians makes sense, move through cover/stealth in forests for Catachans, maybe something like BS4 chimeras for Steel Legion, better grav-chuting for drop troop units or valkyries as dedicated transports, larger max squads or somesuch for Valhallans, etc, etc.

Guard are supposed to be one of the most diverse military forces in the setting, and ought to see some way to represent it. The 4th ed book had a pretty complex and interesting, if not entirely balanced doctrine system with clear winners and losers, but they made a decent system for Marines.

I still want plastic steel legion, or plastic mordians, or plastic valhallans, or re-done Cadians, or any new, improved infantry more than anything else. Part of me fears the vet/storm dual kit will have steel-legion esque models, and will only come in 5s for the same price or more as a normal cadian box. I'd be quite heartbroken if that were the case, with models I want for wayyyyyyy more than I'm willing to spend.

I'd have to build an army of one of Victoria's awesome not-guard instead, as by the Emperor, I want to be rid of my cadians.

Chances are that the plastic veterans will be Cadians with Kasrkin like armour.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
Guard are supposed to be one of the most diverse military forces in the setting, and ought to see some way to represent it. The 4th ed book had a pretty complex and interesting, if not entirely balanced doctrine system with clear winners and losers, but they made a decent system for Marines.

Yeah exactly, and the Imperial Guard encourages it as it sees it as a strength, though I can't remember where I read that. Prolly a 'dex or Gaunts Ghosts book. Doctrines were definitely not perfect yeah, but was a good idea that needed refining.

Even just in the Gaunts Ghosts books you see multiple guard regiment types that fight differently and have different strengths and weaknesses. Gaunts Ghosts of course, stealth specialists, then you get the Blue Blood heavy infantry, the Pardus armour regiments, the Phantine drop troops and a few others I can't recall the names of. Sure, the commanders put the light infantry on the front line and hold the heavy infantry in reserve, but that's just the guard way ; p If we got a good guard dex, my loathing for GW would substantially reduce. Thankfully as others say, it's just not going to happen so I can continue frothing.

Larry Vela on Bell of Lost Souls wrote:
These rumors come to us in multiple sets, and we have ordered them from most trustworthy to least based on a variety of "truthifying methods":

The Probable stuff:
IG Veterans/Stormtroopers (plastic 5-man box)
Hydra
Artillery combo-kit
Roughriders (new plastic box)

The Possible stuff:
IG Regiment Doctrines: Each Regiment (Cadian, Catachan, etc...)has doctrines, similar to SM Chapter tactics. Examples listed were:
Cadians - may issue 2 orders to a unit
Catachans - Move-thru-cover, and Jungle Fighter (???)

Thunderbolt flyer: Very heavy armor, but cannot jink.

The Salt-mine
Imperial Robots - 2 new robots, requiring an Admech handler/enginseer.

Knight Paladin - Taller than riptide, not as tall as Wraithknight. Vanquisher cannon and Uber-chainsword are standard load out. May upgrade to Punisher Cannon, Uber-Fist with Inferno Flamers

Kits make sense. Roughriders are ancient and forgotten about. New models and new rules could do a lot for them, assuming the Valk/Vendetta are toned back some to make FA a more competitive slot.
5-man box for IG vets/Stromtroopers doesn't make sense unless Vets go to 5-10 man units like Stormtroopers. If they stuff it full of weapon though, say 5 lasguns, 5 hellguns, 5 lp/ccw, 2 of each special weapon, tons of head and customization options for $40, I could live with it.

Regimental doctrines honestly seems unnecessary, as that is the SM gimmick. Guard gets orders, DE gets pain tokens, Sisters have faith, Orks have waaagh, ect. Adding more potential doctrines to Veterans would make sense- Vets already have Recon, Demolitions, and Grenadiers to choose from. Adding say Jungle Fighter, Close Order Drill, and one or two others could work.

 l0k1 wrote:
I call bs on the robots. The knight paladin is only slightly believable to me because of GW's new fondness for big MC models. If rumors hold true about the Vendetta being just a loadout for the Valkyrie, then the Thunderbolt may be true, but doubt it bit because if I recall Thunderbolts are FW territory.

Thunderbolt as say a 12/12/10 could work, as if the Valk/Vendetta drop to AV11, it would provide a heavy hitter, but more balanced. And while FW has a thunderbolt model, GW will have to step on FW's toes for the IG release anyways with the Medusa, Hydra, and Griffon, so the "We don't copy FW" doesn't stand this time. And GW has had Thunderbolts forever in Epic.

Even making the Vendetta a Valk Upgrade (which it basically is already) would still cause issues for the Guard FA slot as is, which is already cramped with decent options- sentinels and hellhounds and friends are pretty good, just out competed by the Vendetta right now. Adding a Thunderbolt would make things even worse, regardless if they put it in FA or HS. Both are very crowded with good choices. I can see a potential solution though, if they leave the Valk (with vendetta upgrade) in FA as a squadron option for people who want to put command squads and infantry platoons in the things, but also make it a DT option for Vets and Stormtroopers as singles. Or even make them DT option only for say Vets, Stormtroopers, and Company command Squads.

Robots I don't buy, as they would step all over Ogryn and Sentinals I would think. And Honestly, they would fit better in say the next GK codex than in guard.

Knight Paladin could work though. Taller than Riptide shorter than Wraithknight does sound right. Vanq cannon and Chainfist would fit the old model, and punsher cannon and fist with flamers would allow for something like the Knight Errant/Warden. I can buy that rumor, and would buy 3+ of the models (to go with my Titans, as I have a bunch of knights in epic to accompany my Titan Legion in Epic)

 catharsix wrote:

 Snrub wrote:

IG Veterans/Stormtroopers (plastic 5-man box)

Make it 10 men you stingy sons of beaches

Though I like the way you think, you and I and every realistic Dakkanaut knows they will be 5-man if they are done at all... :(

-C6

No, we don't.

What's more there is absolutely nothing stopping you from using the generic Cadians or Catachans as "Veterans". That box would almost certainly be just carapace armored troops.

Well honestly I would not be surprised if the Über unit for the codex is a baneblade. But I would love to see another guard regiment in plastic as well as a return to the doctrines that you used to be able to take. Like the fourth ed codex where you could have a general force, or you could take the doctrines that gave bonuses and limits.

Knight Paladin could work though. Taller than Riptide shorter than Wraithknight does sound right. Vanq cannon and Chainfist would fit the old model, and punsher cannon and fist with flamers would allow for something like the Knight Errant/Warden. I can buy that rumor, and would buy 3+ of the models (to go with my Titans, as I have a bunch of knights in epic to accompany my Titan Legion in Epic)

Not making the Knight Paladin or an equivalent would be a huge mistakes business wise. It would be a massive, massive selling point and would alone give cause for tons of players to start Imperial Guard armies or Imperial Guard allied detachments. I know a lot of people who consider IG really boring because of the distinct, outdated and unbelievable look of their vehicles but a Knight would change everything. I know there are arguments against these types of units, but after the oversized Valkyrie, GK baby carriage, Trygon, other flyers, Tau Riptide, Eldar Wraithknight, and the upcoming mega Tyranid bugs, I think they are moot points. Armies have some huge centrepiece models now, and since IG have a lot of access to them in the background material I can't see any reason why they shouldn't add some to the game.

I realize that GW could always rewrite fluff but Knights aren't part of the Imperial Guard.They're more their own formation, with tithed service to the Mechanicum rather then the Imperium. I think they're just a bit too removed from regular Imperial Guard use to be represented in the codex. With FW committed to slowly working towards a Mechanicus army I think they're far more likely to do it.

I call bs on the Knight. They are part of the Titan Legions on the Knight Worlds, not of the IG forces.
It wouldn't make much sense fluff-wise.

People have been wishlisting for Knights and plastic Thunderhawks forever. They will continue wishlisting for them, and never see them. No credibility to Knights being included in the IG codex. Had the SMs got some big model I might have been convinced otherwise, but it seems that not every codex is going to get one, and the IG have no need for one. There are plenty of great units/models already available. A plastic hydra would make much more sense.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

Regimental doctrines honestly seems unnecessary, as that is the SM gimmick. Guard gets orders, DE gets pain tokens, Sisters have faith, Orks have waaagh, ect. Adding more potential doctrines to Veterans would make sense- Vets already have Recon, Demolitions, and Grenadiers to choose from. Adding say Jungle Fighter, Close Order Drill, and one or two others could work.

Doctrines go back to the 4th edition IG codex, and there was even a Catachan supplement in 3rd. There's precedent for it, and I'd like if it was in there. IG are one of the most diverse armies in the universe (being billions strong, with men and equipment from every corner of the galaxy) and I'd like to see that represented in some way.

And I don't get why people are saying Baneblades will be in the regular codex. They're superheavies. They can't be in the regular codex. I know the Riptide and Wraithknight are big, but they're monstrous creatures with large models, not gargantuan creatures or superheavies.

Flyers started out as appoc. Units and squirmed their way in so i can see why some folks could belive the baneblade could cross. However I don't think the baneblade will be added to the codex, without getting rid of SP. I also don't see them adding a new medium tank kit, which was a rumor from awhile ago. I would dig a plastic T-bolt. And RR as a troop choice.

 Brother SRM wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

Regimental doctrines honestly seems unnecessary, as that is the SM gimmick. Guard gets orders, DE gets pain tokens, Sisters have faith, Orks have waaagh, ect. Adding more potential doctrines to Veterans would make sense- Vets already have Recon, Demolitions, and Grenadiers to choose from. Adding say Jungle Fighter, Close Order Drill, and one or two others could work.

Doctrines go back to the 4th edition IG codex, and there was even a Catachan supplement in 3rd. There's precedent for it, and I'd like if it was in there. IG are one of the most diverse armies in the universe (being billions strong, with men and equipment from every corner of the galaxy) and I'd like to see that represented in some way.

True, but Marines lost chapter traits, then got them back. Guard lost traits and got orders instead. I'm pro diversity, but rules-wise, the Guard rules "gimmick" now is Orders, with Traits being the Codex: Marines thing.

 Brother SRM wrote:

And I don't get why people are saying Baneblades will be in the regular codex. They're superheavies. They can't be in the regular codex. I know the Riptide and Wraithknight are big, but they're monstrous creatures with large models, not gargantuan creatures or superheavies.

Agreed. Riptide and Wraithknight are tall, but on a large oval, which is between a russ and a land raider in footprint. The Baneblade takes up the same amount of space as 2 land raiders, and is slightly taller as well. And even with the massive simplification that Apoc II brought to superheavies (along with a stupid buff to Destroyer weapons) makes them not all that suitable to normal games. Baneblade will not be in normal games.