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His comments about evolution of the game size are very astute, and I'm not saying that only because I've been saying exact same thing. He even mentions GW needing a new Skirmish-level game since main games have got so big.
Well, I think he is just kind of pragmatic about it. If you read interviews with Rick Priestly and the other chaps who helped build the company but have since left they are all similar in tone - not resentful or critical, just calling a spade a spade.
Andy Chambers is still somewhat inveigled with GW anyway, at least via Black Library so it makes sense him not burning his bridges. Add together the fact that Nottingham and the wargames industry in general has oft been described as fairly incestuous anyway I can understand why he would keep his opinions reigned in somewhat.
He diffused some of my more direct questions nicely and i get the feeling he has experience in doing so i dont think he bears any ill will to GW its just what happened happened. As he says, im sure we wouldn't have liked GW to be bought by Hasbro! The interview was an absolute pleasure and we at the Conclave of Har are very thankful for him making time to answer our questions. Andy was always a favourite from back in the days even before he became 40k Overfiend and I still cant believe i neglected to mention him in my BFG article!
I cant wait to see how his projects pan out and im hoping he'll be up for another grilling when it all comes to fruition.
Incidentally, we are hoping to get another interview with another hobby related alumnus soon....
WWW.conclaveofhar.com - Now with our first Podcast!
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Redbeard wrote: Nice, thanks. Andy was easily the best codex designer GW ever had, I remember being able to pick units based on how they looked and they'd still work.
No, he was terrible, we just didn't know any better back then because we didn't have anyone to compare him to except Jervis and Gav, who were even worse, and netlisting hadn't been invented yet.
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
A few of those questions seemed to be the questioner trying to make Andy bash GW, but he just doesn't seem the type. Interesting read though. It's interesting how many ideas float around at GW, and which ones are picked and why.
One *very* interesting line was this:
Alan Merrett, head of IP these days, has a bit of thing against genestealers though so it sounds unlikely.
filbert wrote: Andy Chambers is still somewhat inveigled with GW anyway, at least via Black Library so it makes sense him not burning his bridges. Add together the fact that Nottingham and the wargames industry in general has oft been described as fairly incestuous anyway I can understand why he would keep his opinions reigned in somewhat.
That's making the assumption that he has negative opinions regarding GW and is holding back. Just because he is an ex-employee doesn't mean he is a disgruntled ex-employee.
You can never beat your first time. The second generation is shinier, stronger, faster and superior in every regard save one, and it's an unfair criticism to level, but it simply can't be as original. - Andy Chambers, on the evolution of Games Workshop games
The 2nd edition Tyranid army was tremendously powerful, although as has been said there wasn't this disposition towards 'net listing' around back then so it didn't matter that much.
My enduring memory was trying to beat them with Eldar and ending up with a single Striking Scorpion, stood surrounded by Carnifexes, hive tyrant, genestealers..
Alan Merrett, head of IP these days, has a bit of thing against genestealers though so it sounds unlikely.
That's pretty much confirmed for me who the originator was of that "there won't be any squats in this game while I'm at this company" quote from some years ago.
To be fair though people are always going to have likes and dislikes. We could have had someone who bought back squats for 6th edition, but dark elves got a handful of finecast and a rebox.
It would be nice if we actually knew what he liked and disliked.
Speculation: Andy Chambers is writing a reboot of a GW Specialist Game.
How did I come to this conclusion, you ask?
At the end of the article he talks about nearly every future project he is working on save one. GW is pretty much the only company that refuses to promote upcoming releases. He mentions, while he can't talk about it, it would likely be well received due to the questions asked in the interview. Aside from the talk of his early days at GW, a major portion of the interview was about Specialist Games. He also stated how GW's current model demands a skirmish level game.
I'm sure I'm reading into his comments way too much, but it would be a dream come true if Chambers did Necromunda 2.0 or just a 40k skirmish game like the rumored inquisition game.
You can never beat your first time. The second generation is shinier, stronger, faster and superior in every regard save one, and it's an unfair criticism to level, but it simply can't be as original. - Andy Chambers, on the evolution of Games Workshop games
No, he was terrible, we just didn't know any better back then because we didn't have anyone to compare him to except Jervis and Gav, who were even worse, and netlisting hadn't been invented yet.
I disagree. Looking back at some of his work, even today, you don't see the lack of internal balance that's so prevalent in new codexes. Net listing was invented as far back at 1995, when people were doing in MtG. There's a reason it didn't take off in 40k until recently, and it's not that wargamers hadn't figured out how to internet yet, it's that back then there wasn't as much to gain from it, because the game was more balanced. There were a lot more viable builds. The last time I used a Chambers' codex, I ran pretty much a one-of-everything list, because it all had a place.
I don't think the Genestealer comment is too hard to figure out. Sixth edition is the first time that Genestealer Cults have had more presence than the preceding edition.
They were a full blown, legit army in RT, equal to others. In 2nd, they didn't get a codex but got a legal list in the back of the Tyranid codex. In 3rd they had no official army list but did get fluff mentions. In 4th, the fluff mentions were fewer. In 5th, they were written out completely. Even the Ichar IV story was reduced to being a "Genestealer infestation." When I premiered my GCult at the 2008 Baltimore GT (winning best painted), I was shocked at the sheer number of players who asked me what it was. Most had never heard of them.
Now in 6th, we've seen GCults get fluff mentions again. This is a positive sign, but the history is why I think a GCult supplement is unlikely. It certainly had seemed like they had an enemy within GW, and now we know who it is.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/12 18:48:39
Shame, as I always thought the genestealers were one of the coolest bits of background - and they've featured so much in that background that it's kind of weird they haven't been a playable force recently.
Especially, when you consider many years ago the massive genestealer cultist display at Games Day.
I still didn't like the fact that they were tied into tyranids as part of the 'shrinking' of the 40k universe, where every single alien encountered has to be in some way tied to tyranids, in what I think is a massive imagination-failure, but then that's just a personal thing!
Alan Merrett, head of IP these days, has a bit of thing against genestealers though so it sounds unlikely.
That's pretty much confirmed for me who the originator was of that "there won't be any squats in this game while I'm at this company" quote from some years ago.
It is pretty well-known amongst staff that Alan hates fun, so both of those come as no surprise.
No, he was terrible, we just didn't know any better back then because we didn't have anyone to compare him to except Jervis and Gav, who were even worse, and netlisting hadn't been invented yet.
I disagree. Looking back at some of his work, even today, you don't see the lack of internal balance that's so prevalent in new codexes.
At his books, maybe.
But that whole design studio of Cavatore, Haines, and Chambers was full of as much nonsense as anything you have seen today.
No, he was terrible, we just didn't know any better back then because we didn't have anyone to compare him to except Jervis and Gav, who were even worse, and netlisting hadn't been invented yet.
I disagree. Looking back at some of his work, even today, you don't see the lack of internal balance that's so prevalent in new codexes.
I suppose everything in his Ork Codex was equally terrible, granted. And his Tyranid codex was too convoluted for most people to figure out, though once someone did, all you ever saw was the same 4 OP broods spammed ad nauseam. Then came the 3.5 IG codex (with its 30 doctrines of which maybe 5 saw any use) and 3.5 Chaos codex, which is still reviled today by many as being simultaneously the most OP and UP book of all time, depending on which legion you played. So yeah, not a stellar record.
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
Starfarer wrote: Speculation: Andy Chambers is writing a reboot of a GW Specialist Game.
How did I come to this conclusion, you ask?
At the end of the article he talks about nearly every future project he is working on save one. GW is pretty much the only company that refuses to promote upcoming releases. He mentions, while he can't talk about it, it would likely be well received due to the questions asked in the interview. Aside from the talk of his early days at GW, a major portion of the interview was about Specialist Games. He also stated how GW's current model demands a skirmish level game.
I'm sure I'm reading into his comments way too much, but it would be a dream come true if Chambers did Necromunda 2.0 or just a 40k skirmish game like the rumored inquisition game.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who picked up on that vibe, but I think we're probably wishlisting, buddy
Man, I thought the CSM 3.5 codex was the result of letting Pete "I <3 Iron Warriors" Haines write the book.
Anyway I do miss Andy Chambers, mainly for the stuff he'd do for the game via Chapter Approved. I still remember the article when he decided to give terminators the 5+ invuln save because he recognized that they were a dying breed with the sheer amount of plasma around (even back then).
filbert wrote: Andy Chambers is still somewhat inveigled with GW anyway, at least via Black Library so it makes sense him not burning his bridges. Add together the fact that Nottingham and the wargames industry in general has oft been described as fairly incestuous anyway I can understand why he would keep his opinions reigned in somewhat.
That's making the assumption that he has negative opinions regarding GW and is holding back. Just because he is an ex-employee doesn't mean he is a disgruntled ex-employee.
He's barely a high school graduate who survived all the layoffs was able to turn his love of games into a career. Yeah, I'll bet he lovesGW.
I knew a guy like this. Motorcycle guy, covered in tats, but was able to smooze and worked his way up to being a GW store manager. No way he could rise higher than that without a college degree, so of course the manager above him picked him. Of course they laid him off when he got too old, lol. He was an ass, so I was happy to hear his wife left him after he was laid off, she knew she was hot and could do better.
GW did a lot for guys like this.
None of these guys, even the top designers make more than 30K a year and layoffs happen all the time.
Andy Chambers was lucky enough to take his skills to Blizzard, but he hasn't really done anything stellar either. Starship Troopers was nice, but it kinda fizzled, and I doubt he making bamk writing books.
Looking for the Empire spearmen from the Warhammer sixth edition box set (empire vs orcs) Must be unpainted and in good condition. Also looking for MIB Empire State Troops boxes.
Looking for Battle for Macragge and Black Reach Tactical squads, unpainted and unassembled.
filbert wrote: Andy Chambers is still somewhat inveigled with GW anyway, at least via Black Library so it makes sense him not burning his bridges. Add together the fact that Nottingham and the wargames industry in general has oft been described as fairly incestuous anyway I can understand why he would keep his opinions reigned in somewhat.
That's making the assumption that he has negative opinions regarding GW and is holding back. Just because he is an ex-employee doesn't mean he is a disgruntled ex-employee.
He's barely a high school graduate who survived all the layoffs was able to turn his love of games into a career. Yeah, I'll bet he lovesGW.
I knew a guy like this. Motorcycle guy, covered in tats, but was able to smooze and worked his way up to being a GW store manager. No way he could rise higher than that without a college degree, so of course the manager above him picked him. Of course they laid him off when he got too old, lol. He was an ass, so I was happy to hear his wife left him after he was laid off, she knew she was hot and could do better.
GW did a lot for guys like this.
None of these guys, even the top designers make more than 30K a year and layoffs happen all the time.
Andy Chambers was lucky enough to take his skills to Blizzard, but he hasn't really done anything stellar either. Starship Troopers was nice, but it kinda fizzled, and I doubt he making bamk writing books.
Do you ever speak from an informed place on any topic at all?
Nice interview. It's always good to be reminded that these guys are big fans of the gaming. Not sure the current crop at GW will be remembered with such nostalgia, but that's not their fault.
Yes right, it's a completely different environment now. These guys were the trail-blazers, doing something new and creating the games and fantasy universes that people still love today.
By comparison think the game and rule-writers today have got a much harder time of it; they've got to follow the tracks already made, they can't take any really significantly different routes with rules mechanics and new games, and creativity in other areas must be pretty limited. Try and change the background? Don't change anything and be accused of being boring, and even minor changes (Devestators are now 'rookie marines' for instance) get met with scorn. Larger ones? Well, look at all the Matt Ward threads! Don't think it can be easy...
This isn't criticism, just observation about how a company like this has developed from a fledgling operation trying to make a place for itself, into a trans-national corporation that's into the business of feeding from those accomplishments.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Of course, a positive I failed to mention about the current era is that GW seems to be a great stepping stone for games designers/artists trying to make a name for themselves (the list is long) and of course job security! Anyone working in the business will at least know when their next pay packet is due, unlike the guys in the early days who sounded as if they were living hand to mouth! Although, never sure about that story of Rick Priestley being paid for every SM sold (as they couldn't afford a fee at the time) was true !
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/31 13:08:12
I think its only sane to not burn bridges, however remote they are, since he writes for BL the bridge is neither remote, nor unused.
Personally I view Andy Chambers as a really bad game designer,, admittedly I have not seen his non GW work, but his GW work was really bad, in second edition you either had an "Andy Chambers codex" or tough luck, overpowered, internally and externally imbalanced, his creations created an obvious line separating codexes that had and those that didn't have.
Especially in an edition where loosing your 4th level psycher(s) was almost a definite defeat, he gave Nids the ability to not only buy their psychic powers were everybody else got them random (or cheated and picked them up since GW was incapable of printing 8 cards with the same art in the background) but also allowed duplicates (triplicates really) of the same powers where everybody else could not have each power once, Yes, of course the relentless Psychic Screams were tiresome, as were all other ridiculous special abilities tyranids had.
We should not forget his famous apology of the Virus Outbreak strategy card "Oh I couldn't foresee what a virus bomb would do when half the armies are immune and the other half dies instantly".
What amazes me is that in the review is that the 3rd edition system was not his as it was left to be believed, but Pristley, the transition from save modifiers to AP was the only logical move one could have done to 40k and I had it as one of his best design choices, apparently I was wrong....
From fluff perspective he was bad too, the 3rd edition Necrons was, in retrospect, my point of friction with GW, the almost total rewrite of the 40k Mythos for the worse in my opinion was the point I started having cracks in my opinion for them, the 4th edition was the thing that brought it to grounds.
