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I run her with Death Co when I give my sisters BA taxipods. It's a pretty good fit.

The honest truth about the whole Sisters as Allies thing is that no, the Sisters do not need allies to be competitive...

... but they are very good at making other armies more competitive.

A 497 point Allied Detachment of Sisters provides a ridiculous force multiplier in the form of Celestine, five Priests (one with Litanies), a throwaway ObSec squad and four scouting meltaguns.

If you throw an extra 40-75 points for a transport for the Dominions on there, it's even stronger... I don't know what other armies would put in a Repressor, but you can buy one for your compulsory BSS as well and let anything you like ride around in it (what else has enough special guns you'd want in a FAV13 box with 5-8 fire points though?)

Skitarii Rangers can take 3 Special Weapons per 10. Drive by's with 3 Arc Rifles would be pretty neato.

The big one is Devastator Centurions though. Imagine 3 White Scar's Grav Cents alongside an HQ with the Ignores Cover relic, driving around in an AV13 transport with enough Firepoints for them to all fire out...

Can you fit Centurions in a Rhino chassis?

Oh wait, its got the same rule as a Rhino in that it can't carry Bulky models, so no you can't! Stick with Inquisitorial Chimera's for Devastator Centurions lol.

So here is my LVO list. Any ideas on what to spend the last 6 points on?

Sisters CAD:
Celestine
2x5 Battle Sisters, Melta Gun, Heavy Flamer, Rhino
2x5 Dominions, 4x Melta Gun, Repressor
1x5 Dominions, 4x Melta Gun, Repressor w/ Laud Hailer
3x Exorcist

Artillery Company:
CCS w/ 2x plasma, vox caster, Chimera, Volkov's Cane
Tech Priest
Manticore
2x Wyvern

Inquisition Detachment:
Ordo Xenos w/ 3 Servo Skulls

Two Storm Bolters for the BSS sgts?

 pretre wrote:
Two Storm Bolters for the BSS sgts?

I don't think you could fire both...

newp


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PanzerLeader wrote:
So here is my LVO list. Any ideas on what to spend the last 6 points on?

Sisters CAD:
Celestine
2x5 Battle Sisters, Melta Gun, Heavy Flamer, Rhino
2x5 Dominions, 4x Melta Gun, Repressor
1x5 Dominions, 4x Melta Gun, Repressor w/ Laud Hailer
3x Exorcist

Artillery Company:
CCS w/ 2x plasma, vox caster, Chimera, Volkov's Cane
Tech Priest
Manticore
2x Wyvern

Inquisition Detachment:
Ordo Xenos w/ 3 Servo Skulls

hmm... Exorcists are cool... but.... More Dominion in Repressors? Even better.

As for six points... Meltabomb for sure.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Two Storm Bolters for the BSS sgts?

I don't think you could fire both...

I meant two Storm Bolters, one for each of two sergeants.

Storm bolters are 5pts so you will only be able to get 1. I agree with giving someone meltabombs.

So I have a question for you guys, how do you outfit your canoness? Because I played 2 games today experimenting with different canoness builds, and both times she was damn near useless. I gave her inferno pistols in both setups cause she was going with dominions and then I tried 2 different melee setups, 2 different relic set-ups and she just died without doing anything both times.

ERJAK wrote:
So I have a question for you guys, how do you outfit your canoness? Because I played 2 games today experimenting with different canoness builds, and both times she was damn near useless. I gave her inferno pistols in both setups cause she was going with dominions and then I tried 2 different melee setups, 2 different relic set-ups and she just died without doing anything both times.

Well... Her Act of Faith is useful. The Eternal Warrior Relic is really a must for her. I would take her as a points saver if Celestine isn't your jam (and she should be your jam immediately).

She is probably best with a Power Maul. While this will be debated I am sure, she IS Init 4 which at least elevates hr to "not entirely useless" status in close combat. Her STR is a real detriment and so you have to compensate to even DO wounds. It seem to me a given that if she's fighting at all that she may not get a second chance to impact the fight and so I'd take my chances with Concussion dealing wounds so that maybe her sacrifice won't be in vain next round when the character she was trying to solo gets free to do its level best on the rest of the squad. Also, concussion at STR 5 can actually get a Wraith Knight to swing slower as an added bonu on subsequent turns. So while her Sergeant screams her death rattles, the Canoness can be busy maybe possibly saving folks for next round or at least giving them some attacks at the ame time worst case. So Power Maul with eternal Warrior would be my vote. Skip the pistol.

Never really got much mileage out of the Cannoness, Celestine and Jacobus are just awesome respectively, so I can't justify running her. Even kitted out she just hasn't been effective for me.

By the time you have spent points trying to make the Cannoness useful you have spent close to what Jackie Boy and Celestine cost and yet they are heads and shoulders better then a generic Cannoness. If you really want to take her bring a Aegis defense line with a quad gun and have her man it with BS 5 (plus you can park an exo or two behind it to get a cover save)

 MrFlutterPie wrote:
By the time you have spent points trying to make the Cannoness useful you have spent close to what Jackie Boy and Celestine cost and yet they are heads and shoulders better then a generic Cannoness. If you really want to take her bring a Aegis defense line with a quad gun and have her man it with BS 5 (plus you can park an exo or two behind it to get a cover save)

I used to do that when our meta went flyer heavy. It... wasn't as useful as I had hoped.

Another option I've found useful is a Bastion with quad gun for your Retributors to camp. If you have the gun sticking the Canoness there isn't a bad idea, if your set on bringing her.

I require Two Canoness's just because I like Dominion and take like 6 squads whenever possible. The Canoness is cheap enough to take for the CAD's. Voila. Instantly you have a beat-tastic amount of meltaguns and flamers to spread the cleansing love of the Emperor to all your harshest critics. Hehehe.

 Jancoran wrote:
newp


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PanzerLeader wrote:
So here is my LVO list. Any ideas on what to spend the last 6 points on?

Sisters CAD:
Celestine
2x5 Battle Sisters, Melta Gun, Heavy Flamer, Rhino
2x5 Dominions, 4x Melta Gun, Repressor
1x5 Dominions, 4x Melta Gun, Repressor w/ Laud Hailer
3x Exorcist

Artillery Company:
CCS w/ 2x plasma, vox caster, Chimera, Volkov's Cane
Tech Priest
Manticore
2x Wyvern

Inquisition Detachment:
Ordo Xenos w/ 3 Servo Skulls

hmm... Exorcists are cool... but.... More Dominion in Repressors? Even better.

As for six points... Meltabomb for sure.

Its just a preference for range really. I like the ability to put firepower out across multiple range bands and the 48" band of the exorcists complements the artillery and makes it easier to spread the board when I need to. Dominions are great, but I find the 12" range of the meltas limiting at times.

PanzerLeader wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
newp


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PanzerLeader wrote:
So here is my LVO list. Any ideas on what to spend the last 6 points on?

Sisters CAD:
Celestine
2x5 Battle Sisters, Melta Gun, Heavy Flamer, Rhino
2x5 Dominions, 4x Melta Gun, Repressor
1x5 Dominions, 4x Melta Gun, Repressor w/ Laud Hailer
3x Exorcist

Artillery Company:
CCS w/ 2x plasma, vox caster, Chimera, Volkov's Cane
Tech Priest
Manticore
2x Wyvern

Inquisition Detachment:
Ordo Xenos w/ 3 Servo Skulls

hmm... Exorcists are cool... but.... More Dominion in Repressors? Even better.

As for six points... Meltabomb for sure.

Its just a preference for range really. I like the ability to put firepower out across multiple range bands and the 48" band of the exorcists complements the artillery and makes it easier to spread the board when I need to. Dominions are great, but I find the 12" range of the meltas limiting at times.

yip. Sounds good. aAnd sometimes they go off like a crazy popcorn maker so its pretty fun whjen that happens. When it doesnt...most expensive STR 8 shot ever. Lol.

Btw, In battlescribe you can't put a LH on a repressor. But I see Panzerleader do this in his lists. Is Battlescribe outdated?

@ERJAK:
About two pages back we had a long discussion about what works for whom. I use her as a cheap support character in small point games (up to a 1000 points)
I do this so I can spent more points on my units.

Laud Hailer is not available to Repressor according to the book I have.

 L1ttle wrote:
Btw, In battlescribe you can't put a LH on a repressor. But I see Panzerleader do this in his lists. Is Battlescribe outdated?

@ERJAK:
About two pages back we had a long discussion about what works for whom. I use her as a cheap support character in small point games (up to a 1000 points)
I do this so I can spent more points on my units.

I mistakenly assumed any Sisters vehicle could buy upgrades off the vehicle equipment list in the Codex. Whoops. back to the drawing board.

Laud Hailers are strictly for the cool kids.

 Jancoran wrote:
Laud Hailers are strictly for the cool kids.

Yeah. I pitched an RAI question to the ITC guys to see if we can get an exception. You know, because our army is "terrible."

Oh no... Lol.

I actually like the Canoness. Mine died for the first time last week, to Jaws of the World Wolf no less.

I always kit her with Eternal Warrior and a Rosarius, then I'll play around with weapons depending on points level and who I'm playing. Not to say I specifically list tailor, but I'll make different decisions if I'm playing a fluffy game vs more competitive. FWIW I think Inferno Pistols are hot garbage because melta is already short on range, I'm not going to take something even shorter. I'll pretty much always choose plasma over inferno, if I'm going with a powerful pistol on her.

I never put her with Dominions. They're a suicide squad, at least when I run them, and I'm not going to give up warlord for free on turn 1. I stick her with a regular Sisters squad, or when I'm forced to take Elites for certain scenarios/tournaments I'll stick her with whatever Elite choice I've made. She makes a great tank for Repentia, and on the few occasions that Celestians manage to do something she's actually pretty good there, but like I said generally her escorts are basic Sisters unless event rules dictate I have something else to choose from.

I will say that I like Celestine a lot, and if Jacobus wasn't so hideous I really like his rules, but for local events we're almost always restricted to no special/named characters and no forgeworld so I'm left with use a Canoness or don't play at all.

I don't like sticking her with regular Battle Sisters because they are WS3 which means there's a lot more incoming attacks that the Canoness has to deal with (assuming you were able to keep her out of a challenge so she can tank for the unit). WS4 is really the main reason why I run her with Celestians (lol).

Though lately I've been preferring to stick her and some Ministorum Priests in a Black Templar Crusader Squad. I don't normally play anything non-competitive, but giving a bunch of Marines re-rolls To Hit, Wound and Saves is pretty fun. The Marines act as her bodyguards while she dishes out the AP2 from her Eviscerator.

I'm trying to get my head around unit matchups and target priority and I think the Sororitas threadizens here can help. Since most of our lists are built around some pretty common core units, I'm interested to survey the players gathered here.

I find that there's a threshold where my confidence expires in committing a certain unit to a certain task. I think I know the basics... flame templates vs. open-topped or anything jinking, meltas vs. medium armor and MEQ/TEQ, etc. I think a great example is a recent game where I sent my melta Dominions against a unit of Centurions in cover. My opponent's reputation in our group was essentially "watch out for his grav-cents" and I'd never faced them before, so I sent what I thought was my toughest unit, my scouting melta Doms. But because the target was T5 with 2 wounds, I couldn't auto-kill them with S8 melta, and he snuffed my Doms and their transport before they took a single model off the board. Looking back, I maybe should have tried to grind those wounds off from a distance with Exorcists instead, or just abandon that objective and try to stay out of range. I find myself in similar situations regularly as a newer player... I don't make the right call as to where to commit my strength.

So I'm hoping people can help me create a rough sketch of "what goes where." What's the point of diminishing returns in terms of melta vs. AV? Do I always send melta Doms after AV12, but ignore AV 14 in favor of something more attainable? At what point should Exorcists target infantry instead of vehicles? How do MCs/GMCs fit into the equation? What about Acts of Faith and when (shooting vs. assault, at what range) to use them? What's the utility of Rending and Shred when it comes to Rets and Seraphim respectively?

My list is fairly predictable: F/HF BSS Rhino squads with lots of bolter shots. Melta Doms in MM Immos. HB Rets with Simulacrum. Seraphim with hand flamers and Celestine. Multiple Exorcists. Occasionally a Jacobus foot blob or a unit of HF Rets in a Rhino.

My opponents are most commonly Marines / Chaos Marines + Demons, followed by Tyranids, Eldar/Dark Eldar, and Tau, all with pretty conventional all-comers builds. Our group doesn't have Orks or Guard at the moment.

I'm hoping to craft some basic guidelines along the line of "against Army A, I send Unit X against Unit Y, unless they are absent or in cover, in which case I look for Unit Z or grab an objective." I know it isn't that simple and the answer is always "it depends," but when facing an unfamiliar force (Tyranids are essentially a mystery to me), I want to have at least a vague starting point. Thanks!

MacPhail wrote:
I'm trying to get my head around unit matchups and target priority and I think the Sororitas threadizens here can help. Since most of our lists are built around some pretty common core units, I'm interested to survey the players gathered here.

I find that there's a threshold where my confidence expires in committing a certain unit to a certain task. I think I know the basics... flame templates vs. open-topped or anything jinking, meltas vs. medium armor and MEQ/TEQ, etc. I think a great example is a recent game where I sent my melta Dominions against a unit of Centurions in cover. My opponent's reputation in our group was essentially "watch out for his grav-cents" and I'd never faced them before, so I sent what I thought was my toughest unit, my scouting melta Doms. But because the target was T5 with 2 wounds, I couldn't auto-kill them with S8 melta, and he snuffed my Doms and their transport before they took a single model off the board. Looking back, I maybe should have tried to grind those wounds off from a distance with Exorcists instead, or just abandon that objective and try to stay out of range. I find myself in similar situations regularly as a newer player... I don't make the right call as to where to commit my strength.

So I'm hoping people can help me create a rough sketch of "what goes where." What's the point of diminishing returns in terms of melta vs. AV? Do I always send melta Doms after AV12, but ignore AV 14 in favor of something more attainable? At what point should Exorcists target infantry instead of vehicles? How do MCs/GMCs fit into the equation? What about Acts of Faith and when (shooting vs. assault, at what range) to use them? What's the utility of Rending and Shred when it comes to Rets and Seraphim respectively?

My list is fairly predictable: F/HF BSS Rhino squads with lots of bolter shots. Melta Doms in MM Immos. HB Rets with Simulacrum. Seraphim with hand flamers and Celestine. Multiple Exorcists. Occasionally a Jacobus foot blob or a unit of HF Rets in a Rhino.

My opponents are most commonly Marines / Chaos Marines + Demons, followed by Tyranids, Eldar/Dark Eldar, and Tau, all with pretty conventional all-comers builds. Our group doesn't have Orks or Guard at the moment.

I'm hoping to craft some basic guidelines along the line of "against Army A, I send Unit X against Unit Y, unless they are absent or in cover, in which case I look for Unit Z or grab an objective." I know it isn't that simple and the answer is always "it depends," but when facing an unfamiliar force (Tyranids are essentially a mystery to me), I want to have at least a vague starting point. Thanks!

Its a math probelm.

6 T5 wounds requires how many STR 8 AP 1 shots to reliably kill? Well you have to hit first. 5 out of 6 will kill so you probably need 7 hits. It takes about 11 shots to get 7 hits completely reliably. So you need to bring 11 meltas to the party. if they have COVER saves, say a 5+, the number goes up.

Your problem wasn't WHAT you brought. It was how many. We are an army without plasma so that is the reality. Thats why three Dominion squads in Rhinos is a winning proposition.

Your Exorcists can average 11 shots a round with three of them. So if you have three, that would also work eventually.

 Jancoran wrote:

Your problem wasn't WHAT you brought. It was how many. We are an army without plasma so that is the reality.

That makes good sense. I do tend to run 2-3 Doms and 2 Exos... I feel like my collection is best suited for 1500, but we usually play 2k. I'm planning to add a White Scars grav biker contingent to add some speed and punch. This might be the best way ultimately to deal with Centurions. EDIT: I just posted this army list in the thread where I was getting some good advice on balancing the two forces: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/676644.page

I want to adapt a list for when my turn against the Tyranids comes up, but I'm not even sure what's called for. I know going after synapse is good, but beyond that I'm not sure if I should be hunting MCs with melta or flaming little bugs. Tau and Eldar are even more cryptic...