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Leaving aside the outrageous price, consider the difference 60 for the witches, arguably the best core vs 25 for the corsairs second best. Does this mean GW is now Magic with miniatures?.

Actually, they just became, "Here's another reason to buy miniatures from our small-studio competitors."

Saldiven wrote:
Actually, they just became, "Here's another reason to buy miniatures from out small-studio competitors."

That for sure, but i am going with the assumption that GW still wants people to buy their products.

Funny, not 5 years ago, i bought a land rider crusader, cheaper than i can buy today 10 witch elves.

xxvaderxx wrote:

Saldiven wrote:
Actually, they just became, "Here's another reason to buy miniatures from out small-studio competitors."

That for sure, but i am going with the assumption that GW still wants people to buy their products.

Oh, of course they want people to buy them. I was just being tongue-in-cheek. I know that as soon as that box came out, a bunch of people at our FLGS immediately walked over to the section with the Scibor, Avatars of War, etc. miniature boxes. This pricing of the Wyches might turn out to be one of their worst pricing decisions.

(I know people don't like it when I compare other, non-gaming companies' pricing to GW, but check out Tamiya's boxes of WWII infantry models. Compare to their US Infantry at Rest box that includes 9 infantrymen, a jeep, and assorted boxes/crates/barrels for $29.00. Or, their Africa Corp Infantry set of 8 infantry and assorted camp gear for $19.00. GW's pricing for their plastics is pretty ridiculous, but gamers are willing to pay the inflated prices because the models are associated with a game.)

No word of a lie, I was gonna make an all witch army until I saw that price...

any other half naked/naked elves on the market?

There are a few, actually. You kind of have to look for them, though. I'm afraid some might be metal, though.

Saldiven wrote:
There are a few, actually. You kind of have to look for them, though. I'm afraid some might be metal, though.

I like metal

Nah they demand a price, and people will pay it regardless what some sour pennyless gamer says online.

Well, if you don't mind a bit of flesh on show there are the Raging Heroes miniatures: http://www.ragingheroes.com/collections/complete-collection/products/blood-vestals - I think these are probably the best ones on the market right now.

Avatars of War have got some rather nice character miniatures, and rumours have been going around for years that they are producing a plastic Witch Elf set (which I was sure would launch when GW released the new army book - surprised it hasn't)
http://www.avatars-of-war.com/eng/web/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=82&Itemid=117

Gamezone do a lovely line of spearmen (and spearwomen!), characters and Knights, but no Witch Elves unfortunately.

Raging heroes elves are nearly the same price though, I don't see that they solve any of the problems. And they're not hard plastic, which is an issue too.

I definitely wouldn't pay that much for the Witch Elves though. Moving into historicals, where I can get like 32 guys for 25 euro.

The Witch Elves are $60 because Sisters of Slaughter are Rare choices.

Wish I was kidding, but I'm not. They price dual kits based on the classification of the most expensive(points wise and slot wise) unit.

 Da Boss wrote:
Raging heroes elves are nearly the same price though, I don't see that they solve any of the problems. And they're not hard plastic, which is an issue too.

I definitely wouldn't pay that much for the Witch Elves though. Moving into historicals, where I can get like 32 guys for 25 euro.

I do like those models better then the GW ones, but you're right about the price, don't save much

 Trondheim wrote:
Nah they demand a price, and people will pay it regardless what some sour pennyless gamer says online.

Wow, a rude post from Trondheim that contributes nothing to the discussion?

What a rare thing to see!

 Kanluwen wrote:
The Witch Elves are $60 because Sisters of Slaughter are Rare choices.

Wish I was kidding, but I'm not. They price dual kits based on the classification of the most expensive(points wise and slot wise) unit.

*facepalm*

That is a ludicrous decision when the other option is a Core choice...

Just remember, if you get proxie models from another company, you won't be able to use them at official GW tournaments or on the many open game days hosted at their stores.

 AduroT wrote:
Just remember, if you get proxie models from another company, you won't be able to use them at official GW tournaments or on the many open game days hosted at their stores.

ain't no GW in my city, not an issue
even still being in Canada I don't think GW has many (if any) official tournaments here anymore

Maybe GW saw that the Raging Heroes ones were the same price and decided they'd put theirs at that too?

 cincydooley wrote:
Maybe GW saw that the Raging Heroes ones were the same price and decided they'd put theirs at that too?

Probably, while failing to account for the different expectations of price a difference in material and volume of manufacture would generate in a consumer. I'd argue quality too, but that's entirely subjective of course, not a WHFB player, but I'm not a fan of much in the DE revamp, I guess my standards have been rather soundly "Mierced"

Yes, other than the frequent anomalies that almost cancel the rule out and the steady increasing price, it's according to where the unit falls in the army structure rather than anything else in price determination, as Kan mentioned above.

It's why you're all being asked for goldsword prices for your core witch elves, their dual nature allows for a big price jump, even further than usual.

GW must believe this course of pricing is the best for them, I disagree and have diminished my purchasing from them to little to nothing, but then I'm not the company. New avenues are opening for us gamers and whilst mantic's minis still aren't up to the aesthetic in most cases, we must be drawing fairly close to 'cheaper minis + as attractive or moreso' time and when that comes, GW will have to do some serious revisions, until that time however, it's squeezin time...

 Dysartes wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
The Witch Elves are $60 because Sisters of Slaughter are Rare choices.

Wish I was kidding, but I'm not. They price dual kits based on the classification of the most expensive(points wise and slot wise) unit.

*facepalm*

That is a ludicrous decision when the other option is a Core choice...

Wholeheartedly agree. I would have bought so many more Shadow Warrior kits if they were not $50--and if they had Shadow Warriors posed firing their bows.

OP, what do you mean by "just become pay to win"?

Saldiven wrote:
Actually, they just became, "Here's another reason to buy miniatures from our small-studio competitors."

Exactly

 AduroT wrote:
Just remember, if you get proxie models from another company, you won't be able to use them at official GW tournaments or on the many open game days hosted at their stores.

Ummmm

1. The "many open game days"? Who cares, unless you ONLY have a GW store near you? Most discourage playing in store now, and focus on running demos.

2. "Official GW tournaments"??? Is there even one left? They pulled all tournament sponsorship, maybe they've got one they still run in the UK once a year? Other than that, all tournies are now independent, and the VAST majority welcome 3rd party models.

Noir wrote:
OP, what do you mean by "just become pay to win"?

OP was suggesting that the best units in slots were the most expensive, which isn't the case in GW pricing as far as I know, but they do price according to a mix of where in the army the unit goes (so their logic is that a rare choice boxed set won't sell as many as a troop choice, so they need to make them more expensive to make back a better return), number of sprues/minis in the box and then up the price from it's peers a little.


But no, they don't up the price based on how good or bad a unit is considered in terms of choice.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Noir wrote:
OP, what do you mean by "just become pay to win"?

OP was suggesting that the best units in slots were the most expensive, which isn't the case in GW pricing as far as I know, but they do price according to a mix of where in the army the unit goes (so their logic is that a rare choice boxed set won't sell as many as a troop choice, so they need to make them more expensive to make back a better return), number of sprues/minis in the box and then up the price from it's peers a little.


But no, they don't up the price based on how good or bad a unit is considered in terms of choice.

I know all that. I'm ask about the part where he ask did warhammer just now become pay to when, as we all know that how it been for years.

Broadly true, but I will remind you that the Stormraven went up disproportionately just before 6th hit and it became a flier...

 RiTides wrote:

Saldiven wrote:
Actually, they just became, "Here's another reason to buy miniatures from our small-studio competitors."

Exactly

 AduroT wrote:
Just remember, if you get proxie models from another company, you won't be able to use them at official GW tournaments or on the many open game days hosted at their stores.

Ummmm
1. The "many open game days"? Who cares, unless you ONLY have a GW store near you? Most discourage playing in store now, and focus on running demos.
2. "Official GW tournaments"??? Is there even one left? They pulled all tournament sponsorship, maybe they've got one they still run in the UK once a year? Other than that, all tournies are now independent, and the VAST majority welcome 3rd party models.

Exactly.

We now have zero incentives to hold off purchasing other manufacturer's products, as GW have entirely given up on tournament and tournament support for indy stores, reduced and discouraged gaming in their own stores and become a boutique retailer.

When Mike from Showcase stopped singing the praises of the company, the sky officially fell. Someone should have walked into the GW boardroom with a print out of what he said here rolled up and started slapping people with it.

I will obtain my rules as I see fit, using whatever means I want and use whatever miniatures I want, safe in the knowledge I'm not ever likely to see a 'GW' tournament event any time soon according to current corporate mantra and very very unlikely to find myself drunk enough to think gaming in a GW store is going to be a good idea, as I just can't drink that much any more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 azreal13 wrote:
Broadly true, but I will remind you that the Stormraven went up disproportionately just before 6th hit and it became a flier...

As an Ork and DE player, I'll just mention that their flyers didn't.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Noir wrote:

I know all that. I'm ask about the part where he ask did warhammer just now become pay to when, as we all know that how it been for years.

New units coming out being a 'must have' has always been a trait, it should be expected in a profit making company with half a shred of sense.

But 'pay to win' isn't necessarily true, in the sense he's suggesting. There isn't a pricing structure according to the 'killy' rating of a unit, as that's against GW's thinking on taking mixed armies and the design team's extreme dislike of 'spam'.

JJ and co really want you to take a mixed army, they've always wanted you to take a mixed army. The parking lots of razorbacks in 5th made them sad pandas, just as the massed flying croissant armies of 6th have, it makes me sad as well, the difference being they view that as the fault of the type of gamer, I view it as the fault of the army books/list building construction method.

I will obtain my rules as I see fit, using whatever means I want and use whatever miniatures I want, safe in the knowledge I'm not ever likely to see a 'GW' tournament event any time soon according to current corporate mantra and very very unlikely to find myself drunk enough to think gaming in a GW store is going to be a good idea, as I just can't drink that much any more.

Having said that, many (most?) indie tournamenes, still espouse a WYSIWYG policy.
So whilst having non GW models is fine, the need to model one with a melta gun/plasma/bolter etc still exists.
So it dosent circumnavigate having non-GW models completely.

One might have a cool Ork sculpt from "X minatures" but you'll still most likely need a GW Loota gun to comply with indie rules?

WYSIWYG is indeed enforced, but there are soooo many 3rd party companies making weapon bits to use.

GW for a long time didn't even sell weapon bits separately after stopping bits sales.

I personally did convert my 3rd party models using GW plastic weapons (obtained through a bits reseller), but there are more and more options for this all the time.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Noir wrote:

I know all that. I'm ask about the part where he ask did warhammer just now become pay to when, as we all know that how it been for years.

New units coming out being a 'must have' has always been a trait, it should be expected in a profit making company with half a shred of sense.

But 'pay to win' isn't necessarily true, in the sense he's suggesting. There isn't a pricing structure according to the 'killy' rating of a unit, as that's against GW's thinking on taking mixed armies and the design team's extreme dislike of 'spam'.

JJ and co really want you to take a mixed army, they've always wanted you to take a mixed army. The parking lots of razorbacks in 5th made them sad pandas, just as the massed flying croissant armies of 6th have, it makes me sad as well, the difference being they view that as the fault of the type of gamer, I view it as the fault of the army books/list building construction method.

Stated intent vs. action. I go with actions, so I sticking with it been pay to win for years. I can say I a nice guy, but if I hit you over the head with a bottle then walk away with your money. Do you still think I right in saying I a nice guy.

 RiTides wrote:

Saldiven wrote:
Actually, they just became, "Here's another reason to buy miniatures from our small-studio competitors."

Exactly

 AduroT wrote:
Just remember, if you get proxie models from another company, you won't be able to use them at official GW tournaments or on the many open game days hosted at their stores.

Ummmm

1. The "many open game days"? Who cares, unless you ONLY have a GW store near you? Most discourage playing in store now, and focus on running demos.

2. "Official GW tournaments"??? Is there even one left? They pulled all tournament sponsorship, maybe they've got one they still run in the UK once a year? Other than that, all tournies are now independent, and the VAST majority welcome 3rd party models.