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Eldercaveman wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:
Do Tervigons still only produce the one "breed" of Termigant? I've always thought it would be cool if they associated different Tervigon weapons/biomorphs with different Termigant weapons/biomorphs.

We have know way of knowing yet. Although it is unlikely.


Also

Warhammer 40,000 Psychic Cards: Tyranids is the complete set of 7 Psychic cards available to Tyranid collectors. As they are the psychic powers from Codex: Tyranids, they can be used in conjunction with Psychic Disciplines, which can be found in the Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook.

This description would indicate to me, that we can still access the Rulebook powers.

We definitely still have rulebook powers, so even if the codex discipline sucks, we'll still have Biomancy to rely on.

It's possible some models have limited access to the various disciplines, or have fixed powers (like we already know the Broodlord has). I could see the Zoanthropes getting fixed powers or the Tervigon only having access to the Tyranid specific powers, for example.

2x cc flyrants
9x shrikes - venom cannon and rending claws
30x gargs - sacs
2x mawlocs
2 squads of 5x stealers
3x biovores
3x warriors - venom cannon and devourers
15x horms

Everything except the warriors, horms and biovores rushes a flank, rest is objective defence.

Depending on what is in the New dex I will have to mix it up a bit.

The list is designed in such a way that all the combat units get in on turn 2.

The haruspex and crone are the only models that interest me in the New dex.

List above is 1850 pts on the nose.

Caederes wrote:

 AesSedai wrote:
Hey SHUPPET, do you feel people will pay the 60 gant tax to field 2 Tervigons as troops? I think there will be a shift from the current standard of 2 + 2 to 1 + 1. This, of course, depends on a lot of thus far unknown factors.

I'm not SHUPPET but personally I'll be dropping from three Tervigons to two for Troops. With everything else in my list getting cheaper though, this won't be an issue - my Flyrants each dropped 55 points, freeing up 110 points which will easily cover the extra 40 Termagants I will have to run plus the cost increases on Tervigons. Depending on how Trygons and Mawlocs fare, I may be swapping them for other stuff. I presume I'm going to be getting at least two Harpies/Crones if the rules are as good as they sound.

Going off the statline and upgrade info we have from WD (because anything could happen on dex release depending on army rules and buffs) our best troops are still hands down Termagants and Tervigons. Even without the Tervigon, Termagants are still miles ahead of the rest of our troops on their own. So even factoring in the Tervigon tax being extra gants, as far as troops go we are still sort of left with the choice of flooding Termagants to buy Tervigons as troop, or just flooding Termagants anyway (because they still wildly outclass Horm's, and Genestealers / Warriors aren't even a factor unless they get critical fixes). So yeah I don't think there is any chance of Tervigon seeing less play in favour of any other unit, although it is going to be a very relevant tax for putting out two Tervigon's compared to what we had to pay before, but at least every point spent like that is spent as efficiently as it could be in regards to anything else in the scoring slot.
Personally though I already ran 1+1 quite often anyway to fit more aggression in the other slots, I think now I will be doing it most of the time.


At the end of the day though, we have seen their statlines and even IF the other troops do get their fixes (EW for Warriors, Genestealers being able to combat from reserves, and Gaunts being able to run+attack) this will not make the Tervigon obsolete, they will merely be on par with it, and we will have a bunch of balanced troop choices. So there is no risk to modelling up a Tervigon. The T-Fex even with the points drop still brings a very unfocused set of skills to the table and while much more cost efficient than than it used to be, it is still a 200 point model with its MAIN role being done individually better by alot of other things in the army.

Shingen wrote:
2x cc flyrants
9x shrikes - venom cannon and rending claws
30x gargs - sacs
2x mawlocs
2 squads of 5x stealers
3x biovores
3x warriors - venom cannon and devourers
15x horms

Everything except the warriors, horms and biovores rushes a flank, rest is objective defence.

Depending on what is in the New dex I will have to mix it up a bit.

The list is designed in such a way that all the combat units get in on turn 2.

The haruspex and crone are the only models that interest me in the New dex.

List above is 1850 pts on the nose.

Very nice, my hive tyrant will be here Tuesday, I'm excited to build him and have always wanted a full on cc flyrant! I think since we'll have anti air with the Crone, cc flyrants may be even better used now.

Shingen wrote:The tyrannofex should only really use the flame template. It's BS is garbage, use it as a fire magnet for close assault. Preferably with endurance cast on it.

Under the last codex you could fit with a S6 template, an S5 template, and a S5 blast and fire them all on the same turn. I'd be happy to keep using that setup with the TFex at a more reasonable point cost. Not only are you pushing a tough linebreaker unit right down the throats of your opponent to absorb damage, but it can help deal with entrenched enemies by negating their cover benefits. It should be especially effective on Tau and Eldar gun lines if the TFex is made survivable enough (via easy FNP/cover saves) to reach them.

AesSedai wrote:As AlexHolker stated, it's more expensive. Also, let's not forget that the tervigons themselves are receiving boost in points which exacerbates the issue. Finally, with 60 gants on the table and two tervs spawning, will people actually have the gants to put down? Personally, I have 82 painted gants and I would not feel confident that the 22 gants available for spawns would be enough, thereby potentially wasting one of the tervigons main advantages. If anyone has rolled high on 3d6 and not had the models to put down, well, you'll know what I mean.

The Tervigon point increase isn't as bad as most people think. From the battle report it looks like they just made the old psychic power purchase mandatory and added ~10pts or so. It's not a huge deal, especially when many other units in the codex seem to be dropping by 10-30%.
Devilguants may also be a much stronger option alongside Terivgon builds, as not only did they drop by 20% but the leaked codex entry says you can mix weapons within a brood. This means your maxed Termagant brood can put 15 basic gaunts at the front to absorb wounds with devourers safely at the back.

I love the sound of bare gaunts to take wounds with devil gaunts behind themed shin gout damage. The only models I'm interested in are the exocrine and the crone. I have about 30 terms painted and about 10 horms (only started nids a few months ago again) so depending on the codex will depend on what I go for.

 xttz wrote:

Shingen wrote:The tyrannofex should only really use the flame template. It's BS is garbage, use it as a fire magnet for close assault. Preferably with endurance cast on it.

Under the last codex you could fit with a S6 template, an S5 template, and a S5 blast and fire them all on the same turn. I'd be happy to keep using that setup with the TFex at a more reasonable point cost. Not only are you pushing a tough linebreaker unit right down the throats of your opponent to absorb damage, but it can help deal with entrenched enemies by negating their cover benefits. It should be especially effective on Tau and Eldar gun lines if the TFex is made survivable enough (via easy FNP/cover saves) to reach them.

AesSedai wrote:As AlexHolker stated, it's more expensive. Also, let's not forget that the tervigons themselves are receiving boost in points which exacerbates the issue. Finally, with 60 gants on the table and two tervs spawning, will people actually have the gants to put down? Personally, I have 82 painted gants and I would not feel confident that the 22 gants available for spawns would be enough, thereby potentially wasting one of the tervigons main advantages. If anyone has rolled high on 3d6 and not had the models to put down, well, you'll know what I mean.

The Tervigon point increase isn't as bad as most people think. From the battle report it looks like they just made the old psychic power purchase mandatory and added ~10pts or so. It's not a huge deal, especially when many other units in the codex seem to be dropping by 10-30%.
Devilguants may also be a much stronger option alongside Terivgon builds, as not only did they drop by 20% but the leaked codex entry says you can mix weapons within a brood. This means your maxed Termagant brood can put 15 basic gaunts at the front to absorb wounds with devourers safely at the back.

About that Tyrannofex build I don't really think that it is worth paying 200 point for, on slow ass MC body, especially as a race with so much anti infantry options, that is one that seems like one of the most expensive and unreliable ones possible. Just my opinion, but the massive range of rupture cannon makes him a threat to vehicles, hes already got a template and a blast as is, and the only way (probably corrected to best* way in the next codex with that point drop) that you can expect make his cost back is by; taking tanks down with him, having the tanks he threats focus ON him, advancing up the board blocking or covering whatever can make use of it the most (even other MC's !), and then letting rip with the beetles, cluster spines and even charging into something, to hopefully do some damage but at the very least tie them down and force something to focus on him, which is what he so desperately wants the most. The more of this you achieve the better, (powerfists do hurt but they hurt more when they are waling on your Swarmlord). Any other attention directed his way and not at your more threatening guys is a good thing, and yes you should run more threatening guys than him when you take him, Tyrantstars and Trygons are good examples jolly bedfellows for the T-Fex.


I agree about the Tervigon price, its completely negligible. As for the devilgaunts, they have no pod, so they have been nerfed. There is no other way to look at it. Sure you can give them meatshields in the unit now but its not going to feel like it was worth it when you lose the entire 30 man squad gets swatted off the board anyway. Don't get me wrong it's not going happen all the time and it is definitely the best way to use them and is actually still decent, but it's no comparison to the safety of pod dropding down and just unloading 3 clips per gaunt of hungry worms into an enemy squad, and possibly leaves the decision in your opponents hands whether or not its worth letting those devourers reach the enemy infantry.

Venomthropes are the answer to swarm lists, plain and simple.

If you are trying to do a swarm list even 1 at 45 points hidden makes a huge difference.

If only they gave stealth or shrouded rather than just a cover save!

Shingen wrote:
Venomthropes are the answer to swarm lists, plain and simple.

If you are trying to do a swarm list even 1 at 45 points hidden makes a huge difference.

If only they gave stealth or shrouded rather than just a cover save!

Is that a bad thing? I thought it was a good thing becuase you can then use Stealth or Shrouded to improve the cover save on spercific units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Noctem wrote:
Maybe I should wait to build my Trygon box and Tervigon box until codex is out =(

If your careful it is possible to magnitise these models (if you want to go to those lenghs).

I intend to do so with the new kits anyway.

You can indeed but nids don't have much in that department.

 SHUPPET wrote:

I agree about the Tervigon price, its completely negligible. As for the devilgaunts, they have no pod, so they have been nerfed. There is no other way to look at it. Sure you can give them meatshields in the unit now but its not going to feel like it was worth it when you lose the entire 30 man squad gets swatted off the board anyway. Don't get me wrong it's not going happen all the time and it is definitely the best way to use them and is actually still decent, but it's no comparison to the safety of pod dropding down and just unloading 3 clips per gaunt of hungry worms into an enemy squad, and possibly leaves the decision in your opponents hands whether or not its worth letting those devourers reach the enemy infantry.

I think they'll be fine.

The cost of the Spore will get you ~10 meatshield Gants, which your opponent needs to cut down before he even begins to diminish the offensive threat of the unit.

Furthermore, I like the idea of Devilgaunts becoming a persistent target priority factor for your opponent. Currently, they aren't one. Either they're in reserves and untouchable, they scatter away from targets and can be temporarily ignored, or they land where they're needed and then the opponent has to respond to them ASAP. I've had great success with podded Devilgaunts in 5th and 6th, but they pretty much never lasted beyond one turn. They came down, did their damage, then got wiped out or ambled off into the sunset due to lack of Synapse support.

You also fail to take into consideration the possibility of using Trygon tunnels, any sort of Hive Commander-esque outflanking ability, and the chance that Tervigons will have an upgrade to spawn Devilgaunts. The first of those things is a borderline certainty, the second is quite likely, and the third is a wishlisty early rumour that is nonetheless still in play.

I'm really hoping that a "surprise buttsecks" list will be viable, with Trigon, Lictor and Ymgarl popping up everywhere. With a tough frontline, like Carnifexs spam, this could be pretty fumy.

I am really hope that tervigons have option to allow breed Hormagaunts.

Solidcrash wrote:
I am really hope that tervigons have option to allow breed Hormagaunts.

They won't.

Sadly I think Hormagaunts from Tervigons is definitely out of the question, even the model shows a Termagant coming out of it =( I hate Termagant models though...

Eldercaveman wrote:

Solidcrash wrote:
I am really hope that tervigons have option to allow breed Hormagaunts.

They won't.

Hormagaunts reproduce via eggs they lay themselves. Tervigons will not be able to make them unless they completely redo the fluff - which could happen bit is unlikely in this case.

I've just realised that I don't really like or need anything from this release, feel relieved and so does my wallet. I still might go for Haruspex depending on how it looks without the hentai thing in the mouth or maybe Exorcine with differrent head (current one is cheesy) but other than that, nothing. Hive Guard are mediocore on their own but bad compared to old model, Tyrant Guard are interesting and imo slightly better than previous ones but not to the point of replacing my converted ones. Warriors I have enough, Gants can wait, Harpy is fat. Crone body and Harpy head mixup could work great but just yesterday I realised that I don't like bat esque wings on Tyranids, I know there is an old space dragons/ dinosaurs undertone to them but for me, the wings spoil the alien look and make them look too fantasyish. So, until I figure out some good insect wings/ alien jetpack conversion, I'm going for my own entirely on foot army, codex hipsters ftw. Wonder how that is going to work heh not really I guess.

Freeeedom. I can go back to buying Mawlocks Raveners and Hive Tyrants, the latter btw being the best alien design ever imo - better than Gigers xenomorph even.

*clears throat*
excuse me but SINCE WHEN DO HORMAGAUNTS LAY EGGS?
My apologies, but I don't remember ever reading that.

Since at least 2nd edition. Think the current Codex still mentions it. Think the new Codex will also mention it. Part of the reason that makes Horrmagants an infestation problem. They are created pregnant.

 the shrouded lord wrote:
*clears throat*
excuse me but SINCE WHEN DO HORMAGAUNTS LAY EGGS?
My apologies, but I don't remember ever reading that.

5th edition codex, p38, last fluff paragraph

 Kirasu wrote:

Shingen wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:

Davor wrote:
Who wants to go to their GW store when shipping is free over $70? Why waste gas and time when it can be delivered to your door?

Bigger question is why is anyone ordering from the GW store?? I guess it is pretty awesome paying full retail

I was talking about the Limited Edition where you can only buy online. Why get it delivered to your gw store when you can get it delivered to your home.

Now when IA4 gets re-done the brood nest will probably get approved as a 40k fortification that can spawn hormagaunts. Just a guess but I bet it'll happen.

Its in the 5th ed. codex too. iirc before they charge into battle they lay their eggs. By the time the first wave dies, the second wave has hatched, layed its eggs, and about to assault again.

could someone with access to the White Dwarf post an image of the Paint Splatter section for hive fleet Leviathan?? Thanks.

Altruizine wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

I agree about the Tervigon price, its completely negligible. As for the devilgaunts, they have no pod, so they have been nerfed. There is no other way to look at it. Sure you can give them meatshields in the unit now but its not going to feel like it was worth it when you lose the entire 30 man squad gets swatted off the board anyway. Don't get me wrong it's not going happen all the time and it is definitely the best way to use them and is actually still decent, but it's no comparison to the safety of pod dropding down and just unloading 3 clips per gaunt of hungry worms into an enemy squad, and possibly leaves the decision in your opponents hands whether or not its worth letting those devourers reach the enemy infantry.

I think they'll be fine.

The cost of the Spore will get you ~10 meatshield Gants, which your opponent needs to cut down before he even begins to diminish the offensive threat of the unit.

Furthermore, I like the idea of Devilgaunts becoming a persistent target priority factor for your opponent. Currently, they aren't one. Either they're in reserves and untouchable, they scatter away from targets and can be temporarily ignored, or they land where they're needed and then the opponent has to respond to them ASAP. I've had great success with podded Devilgaunts in 5th and 6th, but they pretty much never lasted beyond one turn. They came down, did their damage, then got wiped out or ambled off into the sunset due to lack of Synapse support.

You also fail to take into consideration the possibility of using Trygon tunnels, any sort of Hive Commander-esque outflanking ability, and the chance that Tervigons will have an upgrade to spawn Devilgaunts. The first of those things is a borderline certainty, the second is quite likely, and the third is a wishlisty early rumour that is nonetheless still in play.

Hmmm, while I can see your logic I personally can't help but feel like it is drastically flawed. Those 20 termagaunts who we can safely view as freebies to the cost of the devilgaunt unit (in the new codex we actually get 20 devilgants + 20 termagants for 240 points, the same current price as 20 devilgaunts in a spore) are very nice and do soak up a small amount of fire, but they don't deepstrike you in without fear of mishap, turn 2, and for further accuracy allow you to aim deepstrike exactly on top of where you want to be even if there is a squads there, and providing a free 2 inch move towards your enemy even on the worst roll for scatter. Sometimes you might end up 10" off shooting range, assuming you were aiming directly for the 18" limit and scattered the maximum distance in the exact opposite direction, but you are still an inch closer than you would have been had you spent the first turn running toward that same target and having just as bad luck on the run (which is even more likely because it's on a single roll). And you haven't been shot at yet. All this is very good stuff.


Why you would WANT to make your Devilgaunts a shootable target is a mystery to me, I read that paragraph multiple times and could not divulge out your actual reason for wanting to do it, I'm quite sure you didn't give one, you just described how Devilgaunts are currently played. There is a reason Devilgaunts aren't a target priority before they come down and do their damage, it's not by chance, we put them in pods because we DON'T want them getting shot at before they can unload hellfire. Yes, they are indeed more capable of footing it now with their free wounds - but it whether or not they get to deal their damage is possibly a choice left in the opponents hands, and a good opponent will make the right choice. Maybe it's just how I play the unit, but I personally think there is no comparison and much prefer the much more reliable, drop-spore-in-and-fire-60-shots-at-the-devastator-squad-threatening-my-MCs method of justifying an upgrade that literally doubles the cost of putting each model on the field. Yeah they die the next turn, but at least they can be relied upon to do their damage, and do it fast. Might just be a personal standpoint here, I can see the love for brute force with meatshields to distract some extra shots, but they won't be eating Lascannon volleys however and I'd much rather use my Devourers to get rid of Heavy Weapon shots or whatever else I choose to point them at, rather than just draw and soak up flamer fire. I mean any anti-infantry guns the enemy has aren't really doing much else of great importance anyway against the codex of Big Bugs, which just up-sized again. Also, as far as synapse goes I generally found no reason not to have their buddy the OA+HC Flyrant in range of them by the turn they make it down.
However all this being said, Devourers ARE cheap, and I think I will be tucking 10 Devilgaunts into the back of each 30man Term squad I play.



And yes, I do take into the consideration of Trygon tunnels. And it is possibly the furthest thing in the world from a borderline certainty. Rolling reserves for Trygon and not getting a 1 or a 2, then rolling for a squad of devilgaunts HOPING for a 1 or a 2, so that you can bring them in through the Trygon tunnel the next turn, then getting to turn 3 and this time rolling above 2 again, then hoping that your enemy has placed whatever it is you wanted to kill with you Devilgaunts in a convenient spot to the Trygon tunnel? And this is assuming you don't miss the scatter? That is your substitute for spores? Seems inconsistent to say the least. Devilgaunts getting outflanking (which they won't) through some other purchased upgrade in the army would still be far inferior to the pod. And the third one does not seem too plausible, and doesn't even constitute as relevant to the strength of Devilgaunts, it's relevant to strength of buying a Tervigon.

rigeld2 wrote:

 the shrouded lord wrote:
*clears throat*
excuse me but SINCE WHEN DO HORMAGAUNTS LAY EGGS?
My apologies, but I don't remember ever reading that.

5th edition codex, p38, last fluff paragraph

2nd edition tyranid codex, p.25 on hormagaunt's fluff & profile.

In old codex, hormagaunt's have "without number" special rule... 5th editon remove that special rule, all I can wait for new codex to see if hormagaunt's gain any new /old special rule better than Without Number special rule..

2nd edition fluff isn't exactly very reliable information considering how many retcons have happened since then..

Obsidorox wrote:
Its in the 5th ed. codex too. iirc before they charge into battle they lay their eggs. By the time the first wave dies, the second wave has hatched, layed its eggs, and about to assault again.

That is stupid. It is physically impossible for a hormagaunt to have enough biomass to replace itself and yet have anything left for the creature itself.