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 tetrisphreak wrote:

 pretre wrote:
For the Vanguard Infestation data slate:
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2014/01/tyranids-vanguard-infestation-dataslate.html

via Stickmonkey on Faeit 212
3+ genestealer broods (1 must include broodlord, only 1 broodlord per formation)
3+ lictors one of which can be deathleaper

Every man for himself
On the round this unit arrives enters play, every unit within 36" must use the lowest leadership value of the unit when taking leadership tests.

Secret Deployment
Every unit in this formation must start in reserve and use Lictor's chameleonic skin rule for deployment

If i'm not mistaken, that is IDENTICAL to the genestealer/lictor formation in the Apocalypse book.

So, if this is true, then Lictors will NOT be able to assault the turn they arrive from "chameleonic skin". Why? Because it would be utterly broken if not only they but every genestealer in your force could all assault with no penalty on one reserves roll.

Looks like nothing can save them now...I hope i'm wrong and they're awesome.

Edit to add: "Every Man For Themselves" could be a good rule in tandem with "The Horror" (assuming it's a Pinning test at a negative leadership modifier).

If chameleonic skin deployment means in the codex that only snap shots can be fired on the turn they come on the board then we might really have something. That means bad shooting and no pie plates or flamers.

It'll probably be something dull and uninspired like "unit has shrouded".

Regardless, whether it be snapshots or cover save buffs, what we can count on is that the mechanic will almost certainly be useless against Tau. :p

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It'll probably be something dull and uninspired like "unit has shrouded".

Regardless, whether it be snapshots or cover save buffs, what we can count on is that the mechanic will almost certainly be useless against Tau. :p

It's okay if it's useless against one army. Just don't use this dataslate if you know your opponent is playing Tau, I suppose. It's no good to be an auto-include in any and every match up.

If those rumours are true 4pts for Genestealers to Scything Talons which would only grant +1 attack and a guaranteed AP6 is not worth it.

As many others have said, something doesn't feel right about these rumours.

If they are correct, looks like we'll have to switch to short range shooting supported by Assaults tactics.

 stonehorse wrote:


If they are correct, looks like we'll have to switch to short range shooting supported by Assaults tactics.

Well, this is how the army currently plays.

rollawaythestone wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:


If they are correct, looks like we'll have to switch to short range shooting supported by Assaults tactics.

Well, this is how the army currently plays.

Its how Nids supposed to be played. Since no competitive build takes assault units right now, the current strategy is just shoot the enemy with your hive guard, use your flyrants' vector strikes, and just pray your tervigons never roll doubles.

I honestly think that the prior description of nids was accurate. If you are just vector striking, and not landing to assault with your Flyrants you are doing it wrong. Tervigons and other monsters, even the little gribblies, use assault. The key word in stonehorse's statement is "supported" - which is true.

rollawaythestone wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:


If they are correct, looks like we'll have to switch to short range shooting supported by Assaults tactics.

Well, this is how the army currently plays.

Tyranids have always been at their core an assault based army supported by short ranged shooting. This currently doesn't work, and feels wrong. I hope the new Codex fixes this and returns Tyranids to being the premium Assault based army in 40K. A lot of their imagery is taken from the Xenomorphs, which are all about Assault.

I do short ranged shooting supported by assault plenty fine with the 5th edition codex...

I run a primarily assault-based Tau army and am undefeated in my meta, personally.

I don't know what people are talking about when they complain about melee-tau armies not being viable. If they aren't viable than how come I do so well with them?

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I run a primarily assault-based Tau army and am undefeated in my meta, personally.

I don't know what people are talking about when they complain about melee-tau armies not being viable.

Out of curiosity, what do you use? The thought of choppy tau intrigues me.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I run a primarily assault-based Tau army and am undefeated in my meta, personally.

I don't know what people are talking about when they complain about melee-tau armies not being viable.

Out of curiosity, what do you use? The thought of choppy tau intrigues me.

Farsight bomb no doubt. Big Red is WS5, I5 with AP2 and 5 attacks on the charge.

 stonehorse wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:


If they are correct, looks like we'll have to switch to short range shooting supported by Assaults tactics.

Well, this is how the army currently plays.

Tyranids have always been at their core an assault based army supported by short ranged shooting. This currently doesn't work, and feels wrong. I hope the new Codex fixes this and returns Tyranids to being the premium Assault based army in 40K. A lot of their imagery is taken from the Xenomorphs, which are all about Assault.

Actually, there were some breeds of xenomorph that could spit acid, iirc.

http://alienanthology.wikia.com/wiki/Runner

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I run a primarily assault-based Tau army and am undefeated in my meta, personally.

I don't know what people are talking about when they complain about melee-tau armies not being viable. If they aren't viable than how come I do so well with them?

I assume you mean Tyranid, not Tau.
And it's because your meta hasn't "caught up" to the rest of the competitive world. That's fine - it's just a different local meta.
Pure assault simply doesn't work if you're following the rules in 6th edition.

No, I meant Tau.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
No, I meant Tau.

Farsight bomb? That's at least as shooty as it is choppy. In my experience anyway.

How does that Farsight bomb work again by the way?, never really saw it in my META.

He is being facetious, and showing that anecdotal evidence of one person "claiming" they do just fine with a weak army is not proof that the army itself is fine.

 IcedAnimals wrote:
He is being facetious, and showing that anecdotal evidence of one person "claiming" they do just fine with a weak army is not proof that the army itself is fine.

Nice to see that someone could see through BlaxicanX's sarcasm

Rein it in guys, it's getting way off-topic in here.

Sharing this from GW digital's Facebook. Nothing we didn't know. Swarmy is 285.

Too bad the actual model couldn't look more like that, with the mandibles, split tail, and the cool-looking bone swords that look more like big cleavers instead of the curved ones. I have a kit lying around that I planned on converting to look more like the art but never bothered.

So he's 5 points more. That's not bad.

 IcedAnimals wrote:
He is being facetious, and showing that anecdotal evidence of one person "claiming" they do just fine with a weak army is not proof that the army itself is fine.

Indeed he is. And I think the more information we got the less impressive that statement would seem, hence why he hadn't given anything other than the bare "I made this army work therefor you guys are doing it wrong". If his statement was true I'm guessing he didn't come against anything even slightly resembling a competitive list played by a half-decent player or you would not still be "undefeated". A very broad term which is likely describing his success over a small amount of games, almost certainly in a very casual meta. Or maybe it does beat WaveSerpent Spam and Screamer stars with it consistently, I don't know. I think his point was more about the useless nature of such statements.

Just like this guy

zaak wrote:

I've made lictors work for the past 3 codexs.. Fleshhooks are your friend.

Ah yes, of course the fleshhooks, why didn't we all realise sooner that they could be used. You definitely had a leg up on the rest of us there. Or maybe, the rest of the world does all realise what fleshhooks can do, the unit is still crap, and your meta just isn't very competitive? Cast an unbiased, non-egotistical eye back on the statement that you made when people were saying Lictors needed some helpful balancing, to let them last longer than the turn they hit the battlefield. Think about whether firing off 2x fleshhook shots at bs 3 and dying the next turn is worth the 65 point cost, or whether those Fleshhooks shots are going to really add that much to the survivability of the unit.

Yes. I didn't respond with more details because anyone who asked "what's your list" missed the point of my statement.

Which is. No one cares about personal anecdotes of how well your army list works for you. Even if someone is telling the 100% truth (I have no reason to believe Loki is being disingenuous, for example), anecdotes are still useless because there can be any number of reasons for why someone is successful with what is considered a sub-optimal list.

It weakens my faith in humanity that Iced had to spell that out for fellas, though.

 -Loki- wrote:
I do short ranged shooting supported by assault plenty fine with the 5th edition codex...

This is how I played my 'nids list. 2 packs of 15 Hormagants, a Tervigon with Devilgaunts for the tax, 6 Hive Guard and 3 Zoans, Trygon and 2 Biovores with a Tyrant and I fluff out the rest. Its a fun list. The Horms run around nipping at the heels and many people ignore them that it is insane. Yes they die but sometimes letting them absorb the shots HELPS!

I have always believed 'Nids need to force people's priority of fire by throwing threats at them and overwhelm them that way.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Yes. I didn't respond with more details because anyone who asked "what's your list" missed the point of my statement.

Which is. No one cares about personal anecdotes of how well your army list works for you. Even if someone is telling the 100% truth (I have no reason to believe Loki is being disingenuous, for example), anecdotes are still useless because there can be any number of reasons for why someone is successful with what is considered a sub-optimal list.

It weakens my faith in humanity that Iced had to spell that out for fellas, though.

Why didn't you just say that then? =P

Because I hate everyone.

As to the Ranged vs CC arguments for how the NEW TYRANID CODEX (topic) should operate, here are my thoughts:

1.) I like my tyranids focused on CC. It's fun, it feels "right", and when they get there they excel at it.
2.) The enemy is typically loaded for bear with shooting units, with maybe 1 or 2 "combat" units (orks & Daemons excluded).
3.) This means that my combat oriented army (genestealers, lictors, trygons, raveners, etc) loses 40-80% of it's models (yes, sometimes 80%) while it tries to make it into combat while the enemy army remains Untouched


Now, that being the state of the army of how i would LIKE to play it vs how NEED to play it to win, means I must incorporate shooting units into my army so that i can weaken the enemy and lessen the impact my army takes on their way into combat. Hive Guard, Flyrants, and Biovores have been the primary additions to my force to try and help with this.

I would rather this new codex promote multiple builds, with 2 or 3 of them competitive, much in the way the other 6th edition codices have been made. But 6th edition being what it is today, i foresee that shooting will have to be an integral portion of my force for games to come.

rollawaythestone wrote:
Sharing this from GW digital's Facebook. Nothing we didn't know. Swarmy is 285.

This does tell us one new thing...hive guard can't be bought and attached to tyrants...most likely...as they aren't located in the hq section whatsoever