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Punching vehicles to death is not something nids are going to struggle with. Sinking points into a fex to make it better against vehicles in CC would not be my first choice.

 Gloomfang wrote:


Fail an IB with a unit of 20 hormagaunts and you have a 33% chance of losing 8-9 of them to 20 S3 hits.

I thought it was a 1 in 6 chance of taking the hits.
Then roll to wound.
Then a save.

So in reality you're far less likely to lose any.

It's a 1-2 result, so 33%. Then it's an S3 hit, so 10 of the 20. Then you save 1 or 2.

Hence losing 8-9.

Wow, my bad.
I thought I'd read 1 in 6 somewhere in this gargantuthread.
Thanks for clearing that up, I should be getting my tendrils on a copy later today.
Can't wait.

Any info on the Crone's mouth cannon / missiles?

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
So tyrant guard are 70 pts each with crushing claws, which we now know grant +1 S, Armourbane, and AP2.

That seems....kind of slap in the face for the Carnifex. S10...Armourbane. Bit redundant really.

I now have to seriously reconsider the build of the final two plasti-fexes I have. I might just make them Scytals for convenience...

Um its only +1 S now x2, tyrant guard are only S6 with the claws.

I would still take them on Fex for 15 points. Pretty much guarantees any vehicle you assault gets popped if they somehow managed to survive your HoW attacks.

Like I said, redundant. I mention the Carnifex specifically. S10 and Armourbane is really redundant when you consider the number of attacks - I suppose it'll ruin a dreadnought's day at least.

But as already mentioned...for the same cost Adrenal Glands do the job better. Seriously. Fleet. Fleeting Carnifexes.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Any info on the Crone's mouth cannon / missiles?

The drool cannon (yes they seriously called it that) is S6 AP4. It does not get Torrent.

The missiles look decent, but they're one-shot and the Crone only gets four of them to use.

36", S5 AP5, Haywire and count as twin-linked against Flyers and FMCs. That means 75% chance to hit, 83% chance to get a glance or pen.

Of course, you can probably only fire two at a time, and only in turns where you don't Vector Strike or fire the Drool Cannon.

Small point, but I would prefer saliva cannon to drool cannon. Drool cannon is an abysmal name (and this is from the company that named a character "Kruellagh the vile").

I'm warming up to the idea of tyrannofexes. I have 3 Tervigons magnetized and what I'm seeing is tervigons:

-lost biomancy
-capped at one power
-spawned gants can't move or charge the turn they are spawned
-AG/TS no longer conferred
-points increased

Whereas the tyannofex gained:

- huge points decrease
- access to AG

The crones tentaclids are only twin linked against zooming flyers and swooping flying MCs

 AesSedai wrote:
Punching vehicles to death is not something nids are going to struggle with. Sinking points into a fex to make it better against vehicles in CC would not be my first choice.

I don't know how they're supposed to catch anything without spores. I guess Fleet can help a little bit, but a vehicle can still outpace you if it really wants to.

I'd still like to know what Bioplasma does, but I'm assuming it's unchanged. I guess Screamer-Killers will be fairly cheap and decent, if they can ever get where they're going.

 xttz wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Any info on the Crone's mouth cannon / missiles?

The drool cannon (yes they seriously called it that) is S6 AP4. It does not get Torrent.

The missiles look decent, but they're one-shot and the Crone only gets four of them to use.

36", S5 AP5, Haywire and count as twin-linked against Flyers and FMCs. That means 75% chance to hit, 83% chance to get a glance or pen.

I do like that they come stock. I was expecting to have to pay per missile. The Crone is one of the few exciting things about this book, but even it is kind of an unintuitive, illogical mess. Long-range, low strength anti-armour missiles + an anti-everything Vector Strike + a super short range Barf Cannon.

 Redemption wrote:
Of course, you can probably only fire two at a time, and only in turns where you don't Vector Strike or fire the Drool Cannon.

Vektor Strike + missile launch every turn for 4 turns straight... Drool cannon (possibly the least intimidating name they could have given - probably fits considering how much they hyped up a S6 AP 4 non torrent flamer) where its useful... the Crone doesn't seem as bad as it is being made out to be, like, far from useless... I mean people are in here talking about taking Lictors and Genestealers ~_~


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AesSedai wrote:
Small point, but I would prefer saliva cannon to drool cannon. Drool cannon is an abysmal name (and this is from the company that named a character "Kruellagh the vile").

I'm warming up to the idea of tyrannofexes. I have 3 Tervigons magnetized and what I'm seeing is tervigons:

-lost biomancy
-capped at one power
-spawned gants can't move or charge the turn they are spawned
-AG/TS no longer conferred
-points increased

Whereas the tyannofex gained:

- huge points decrease
- access to AG

I think my first shot at this codex will be a nice Bulky walking wall of Death, including two T-Fex's

 AesSedai wrote:
Small point, but I would prefer saliva cannon to drool cannon. Drool cannon is an abysmal name (and this is from the company that named a character "Kruellagh the vile").

I'm warming up to the idea of tyrannofexes. I have 3 Tervigons magnetized and what I'm seeing is tervigons:

Me too. At 175pts for a T6 W6 2+ save that isn't too hard to throw FNP or Venomthrope buffs on, it's very tempting. I'm leaning toward putting 1-2 of them in front of a Fex brood and saying 'deal with this by turn 2' before the rest of the army arrives.

I'm also considering dropping Tervigons completely in favour of walking Tyrants, Zoanthropes and Venomthropes within a huge mass of gaunts. My thinking is that:

1) Hive Tyrants are now BS4, and TL devourers are still our best ground-based option for dealing with flyers.
2) Tyrant Guard automatically pass LoS rolls, and you can use them to get cover on at least half the unit in conjunction with Venomthropes. That works out better than Jink saves and you don't need to forgo shooting to use them.
3) By walking they won't be taking S9 hits from failing grounding tests, won't run too far ahead of my troops, and can now take Fleet.
4) For the price of a Tervigon you can get 4 Zoanthropes that have better synapse coverage, invuln saves and 4 psychic power rolls to get decent powers (as well as Warp Blast). Plus you don't end up with half your guants dying from losing a Tervigon that's trying to stay within synapse range of everything.

Do Tervigons still have the exhaust rule on the roll of any doubles?

 xttz wrote:

 AesSedai wrote:
Small point, but I would prefer saliva cannon to drool cannon. Drool cannon is an abysmal name (and this is from the company that named a character "Kruellagh the vile").

I'm warming up to the idea of tyrannofexes. I have 3 Tervigons magnetized and what I'm seeing is tervigons:

Me too. At 175pts for a T6 W6 2+ save that isn't too hard to throw FNP or Venomthrope buffs on, it's very tempting. I'm leaning toward putting 1-2 of them in front of a Fex brood and saying 'deal with this by turn 2' before the rest of the army arrives.

I'm also considering dropping Tervigons completely in favour of walking Tyrants, Zoanthropes and Venomthropes within a huge mass of gaunts. My thinking is that:

1) Hive Tyrants are now BS4, and TL devourers are still our best ground-based option for dealing with flyers.
2) Tyrant Guard automatically pass LoS rolls, and you can use them to get cover on at least half the unit in conjunction with Venomthropes. That works out better than Jink saves and you don't need to forgo shooting to use them.
3) By walking they won't be taking S9 hits from failing grounding tests, won't run too far ahead of my troops, and can now take Fleet.
4) For the price of a Tervigon you can get 4 Zoanthropes that have better synapse coverage, invuln saves and 4 psychic power rolls to get decent powers (as well as Warp Blast). Plus you don't end up with half your guants dying from losing a Tervigon that's trying to stay within synapse range of everything.

BS 4 won't matter against Flyers. I'd rather take a potshot with 3x Hive Guard who will be ignoring Jink.

Altruizine wrote:
BS 4 won't matter against Flyers. I'd rather take a potshot with 3x Hive Guard who will be ignoring Jink.

Yeah but they're still twin-linked, and BS4 really helps against most other targets.

I think Nids are going to live and die based on what they roll on the psychic table at the start of the game, and Hive Tyrants with Devourers are the best combined option for ticking the psychic, synapse and shooting boxes now.

sixshot1999 wrote:Do Tervigons still have the exhaust rule on the roll of any doubles?

Yep. They also nerfed Termagant spawning. They can't move or assault on the turn they're spawned, and they no longer gain TS or AG buffs from the Tervigon (just counter-attack). Between that and the single random psychic power I think the days of the Terivgon are definitely numbered.

I dunno, the Crone seems to be all over the place. It wants to get close to be able to use Vector Strike, its Drool Cannon and perhaps the random assault, but it wants to stay at longer ranges to fire its Tentaclids and to protect it as it is so frail. And I rarely get to Vector Strike my Hive Tyrants, and it'll be even harder to do with the Crone's larger base because you have 6cm less to manoeuvre and much easier to kill with anti-infantry weapons.

The Tentaclids are horrible against other FMC, so they're only really worthwhile against vehicles - flyers especially. But if you depend on them for your anti-air, you'll probably need to start it in reserve if you want any hope of firing said Tentaclids against the flyer before it is killed.

With the removal of the -1 to the damage table for Venom Cannons and its reasonable point cost drop, I think I prefer the Harpy to the Crone myself. For anti-air I guess I'll just use the Hive Tyrant and lots of snap-firing like the previous dex.

New List: 1850 pts

----- HQ -------------------------------
1. Hive Tyrant (245pts)
- 1x Hive Tyrant
- 2x Devourer with Brainleech Worms - Twin-linked
- 1x Tyrant Guard
2. Hive Tyrant (245pts)
- 1x Hive Tyrant
- 2x Devourer with Brainleech Worms - Twin-linked
- 1x Tyrant Guard

----- Troop ----------------------------
1. Termagant Brood (140pts)
- 25x Termagant
- 10x Devourer
2. Termagant Brood (120pts)
- 25x Termagant
- 5x Devourer
3. Termagant Brood (100pts)
- 25x Termagant
4. Hormaguant Brood (100pts)
- 20x Hormaguant
5. Tyranid Warrior Brood (90pts)
- 3x Tyranid Warrior

----- Elite ----------------------------
1. Venomthrope Brood (135pts)
- 3x Venomthrope
2. Zoanthrope (100pts)
- 2x Zoanthrope
3. Zoanthrope (100pts)
- 2x Zoanthrope

----- Heavy Support --------------------
1. Tyrannofex (175pts)
2. Carnifex Brood (300pts)
- 2x Carnifex
- 4x Devourer with Brainleech Worms - Twin-linked

This is the best I can come up so far... had to throw in the Warriors as it's really hard to find cheap, decent Synapse units that aren't Zoanthropes. The list will do very little damage on turn 1-2, it basically comes down to how much of it your opponent can whittle down in that time before it hits.

If Tervigons are on the way out and I think it's clear they are, what do you think will fill the role of troops choice?

I thinking hoards of termagants mixed with 1/3 of the units armed with devourers. Abalative gaunts die on the way in and there is no functional loss of firepower. 18 inches is nice too. Seems to be a solid option to replace all the devilgaunts from the now defunct spore bomb, and all the fleshborer gants from termagant spam.

sixshot1999 wrote:Do Tervigons still have the exhaust rule on the roll of any doubles?

Yep. They also nerfed Termagant spawning. They can't move or assault on the turn they're spawned, and they no longer gain TS or AG buffs from the Tervigon (just counter-attack). Between that and the single random psychic power I think the days of the Terivgon are definitely numbered.

sixshot1999 wrote:
thanks for the heads up, like others I've been reading the various forums and outcries of the codex looks like I'm going to have to invest in a couple T-Fexes
also any word of the Swarmlord full stat line and abilities I may of over looked it when browsing around..

Swarmy: 9/4/6/6/5/6/4/10/3+

 sixshot1999 wrote:


also any word of the Swarmlord full stat line and abilities I may of over looked it when browsing around..

He's very meh. Same profile, and his weapons effectively confer a bonus attack. However,

a) he lost the ability to force opponents to re-roll successful invulns
b) went up by 5pts
c) can only roll 3 powers rather than 4 now.

 xttz wrote:

 sixshot1999 wrote:


also any word of the Swarmlord full stat line and abilities I may of over looked it when browsing around..

He's very meh. Same profile, and his weapons effectively confer a bonus attack. However,

a) he lost the ability to force opponents to re-roll successful invulns
b) went up by 5pts
c) can only roll 3 powers rather than 4 now.

Man that is depressing.....

Now part of me wants to believe the Tervigon nerf is due to 3rd parties making their own versions. I mean I know it isn't, but it's fun to imagine...

GW Suit: We're going to make those dastardly 3rd parties suffer by destroying something they've been selling lots of.
GW Designer: But sir-
GW Suit: Finally everything will be back under our control.
GW Designer: But sir, we make-
GW Suit: Never again will the tyranny of third party miniature makers plague the pure and righteous nature of Games Workshop.
GW Designer: We released a Tervi-
GW Suit: Did you see what I did there? Tyranny? Tyranids? I deserve a 3 hour lunch.
GW Designer: But we sell a Tervigon model-
GW Suit: You're right Anderson. A four hour lunch it is.
GW Designer: My name is... oh forget it...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Now part of me wants to believe the Tervigon nerf is due to 3rd parties making their own versions. I mean I know it isn't, but it's fun to imagine...

GW Suit: We're going to make those dastardly 3rd parties suffer by destroying something they've been selling lots of.
GW Designer: But sir-
GW Suit: Finally everything will be back under our control.
GW Designer: But sir, we make-
GW Suit: Never again will the tyranny of third party miniature makers plague the pure and righteous nature of Games Workshop.
GW Designer: We released a Tervi-
GW Suit: Did you see what I did there? Tyranny? Tyranids? I deserve a 3 hour lunch.
GW Designer: But we sell a Tervigon model-
GW Suit: You're right Anderson. A four hour lunch it is.
GW Designer: My name is... oh forget it...

I lolled.

Im thankful the Tervigon isnt a 'must have' for every list now, I got sick of using even my one.

This is how dire things are looking... I'm actually considering Shrikes as a viable option right now.

Lictors can make deep striking them viable, and they provide fairly cheap synapse in a slot without much competition from other units. Throw on rending claws and flesh hooks and a small unit can put out a decent number of attacks, while throwing SitW over the hostile deployment zone.
Alternatively, Trygon Primes can do a similar thing alongside decent shooting.

What about the following:

2-3 Lictor broods infiltrate up front early on, ideally in 4+ cover.
If they take any fire, they go to ground, combining it with Stealth for a 2+ cover save.
On turn 2 you deep strike in some combination of Trygon Primes, Mawlocs, Shrikes and Gargoyles without scattering.
Lictors become fearless from synapse and stand up, and are free to start tying up units as flesh hooks are now assault grenades.
In the meantime, some combination of Termagants and Hormaguants advance with a Prime or two for synapse.

It's an obvious gimmick and will die horribly to Tau with markerlights, but that's grasping at straws for you.

im getting a trygon/mawloc on saterday.

 sixshot1999 wrote:

sixshot1999 wrote:Do Tervigons still have the exhaust rule on the roll of any doubles?

Yep. They also nerfed Termagant spawning. They can't move or assault on the turn they're spawned, and they no longer gain TS or AG buffs from the Tervigon (just counter-attack). Between that and the single random psychic power I think the days of the Terivgon are definitely numbered.

thanks for the heads up, like others I've been reading the various forums and outcries of the codex looks like I'm going to have to invest in a couple T-Fexes
also any word of the Swarmlord full stat line and abilities I may of over looked it when browsing around..

I liked the tyranofex better and had great fun with them, and now they're cheaper. Somehow i could tell tervigons won't last long from the start.