Tyranid Release in January: GW pre-orders up, discussion starts pg 80

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**Slayer le boucher**

Yeah but no one care about Dark Angels, they are just Chaos Space Marines in disguise.

**Anpu42**

Zoenthropes do have a 5+/3++ save apprently

**evilsponge**

Slayer le boucher wrote:
Yeah but no one care about Dark Angels, they are just Chaos Space Marines in disguise.

Sssh! Its a secret.....

**kirsanth**

I missed the FA up to 6 mines. . .

I have used them in the slot since I started - I should have caught that.

Thanks!!

**N.I.B.**

Probing Gargoyles. Blind. Are you sure it's one I test per hit?

20 Gargoyles charge a Dreadknight, 10 hits on the same initiative. Is that 10 tests for the Dreadknight?

Any unit hit by a model or weapon with this special rule must immediately take an Initiative test.

Because to me it looks like it would be a single test - all attacks hit at the same time after all.

**kirsanth**

"hit by one more more" is the usual means of expressing it does not stack, e.g. SitW.

**rabid1903**

Do different types of biomorphs stack still? (e.g. rending claws and boneswords giving a 6 to wound AP 2 and instant death)

I haven't seen anything to confirm that.

**N.I.B.**

kirsanth wrote:
"hit by one more more" is the usual means of expressing it does not stack, e.g. SitW.

Agreed, but that's not what is says. It says 'by A model or weapon'.

**CthuluIsSpy**

N.I.B. wrote:
kirsanth wrote:
"hit by one more more" is the usual means of expressing it does not stack, e.g. SitW.

Agreed, but that's not what is says. It says 'by A model or weapon'.

Hmm good query. It does say "an initiative test" and it does not specify that it's for every hit.

**NamelessBard**

kirsanth wrote:
"hit by one more more" is the usual means of expressing it does not stack, e.g. SitW.

It does not say one or more. If hit Then Test.

**roxor08**

Doh. Sorry double post....

**kirsanth**

I read it as stacking.

Hit by a model or weapon, a test.

Undoubtedly will be in an FAQ stating otherwise.

**Deadeight**

rigeld2 wrote:
streamdragon wrote:
Synapse still benefits us in the exact same way: Fearless and no taking IB tests.
Essentially the argument boils down to: a nerf to Synapse justifies nerfing the Prime. Think about that.

Correct. Making Synapse worse to be out of makes an IC Synapse more valuable.

The nerf is to the units that fall outside of synapse. These units have not been buffed inside of synapse to reflect how terrible it is to have them out of synapse. So those units are nerfed.

The Prime has been nerfed because it can act to prevent the negative affects of the nerf on other creatures. So this unit has been nerfed.

So both sides of the synapse relationship have been nerfed, and nothing is better off (except for maybe carnifexes).

You are measuring relative value only within a codex, against other creatures who could provide synapse. Overall the change does not make sense in balance terms against opposing armies.

**NamelessBard**

I've said this elsewhere, but looking into has lead me to this:

This is from poster GreatBigTree on another site, but it gets the point across.

The rules for "Blind" can be found in the 40k RB, pg 34, top right. "Any unit hit by a model or weapon with this special rule must immediately take an Initiative test." Failing that test causes the testing unit to suffer penalties. I believe this rule is open to interpretation, and that lies in one of several camps.

The first, views the rules as saying, "If a unit is hit with an attack that has the Blind characteristic, they take an [one] initiative test." This would be similar to a Pinning test, in that a unit could take multiple Pinning tests in a turn, but only one for each unit that attacked them with Blind / Pinning. This is a view in which a unit with Blind can generate two outcomes, Yes or No. If yes, take one test. If no, do not take a test.

Another views the rules as saying, "Whenever an attack from a weapon or model with the Blind characteristic hits, the unit must take a test for each model or weapon that hit". This has two outcomes for each model. Yes or No. If yes, take one test. If no, do not take a test.

A third view sees the rules as saying, "For each attack with the Blind characteristic that hits, the unit must take a test.". This has many outcomes, ranging from "No" to multiple"Yes", based on the number of attacks that hit.

Refering to the game mechanics outlined in the 40k RB, pg 13, Roll To Hit there are rules supporting the resolution of individual models' attacks. Note that the rules presented do not regard the resolution of a "unit's" shots, only individual model's shots. There is an implied suggestion to roll all attacks from one unit simultaneously to speed things along, but the rules are referring to the resolution of single models. This means that each model with a "Blinding" weapon could roll separately, and then generate a test if any of their attacks hit.

Since each model's attacks may legally be resolved individually, and the rules for Blind refer to attacks made by models / weapons, I believe the RAW supports the second view, in which each model / weapon may potentially generate up to one Blind test. Each model would need to have their "To Hit" rolls resolved separately. For example, 5 models with 10 attacks would need to roll 5 sets of two dice. Simply rolling 10 dice, and then generating a test for each hit up to a max of 5 does not correctly resolve this rule.

**kirsanth**

Correct.
Speed rolling is a convenience allowed by the rules, it is not the literal steps to be followed, according to RAW.

**BlackRaven1987!!**

So is there any way to change different units to troop?

**Gloomfang**

rabid1903 wrote:
Do different types of biomorphs stack still? (e.g. rending claws and boneswords giving a 6 to wound AP 2 and instant death)

I haven't seen anything to confirm that.

No they don't. We follow the BRB rules for picking a weapon set and attacking. You do get +1A for a second set now. Basically it is all scytals are good for now.

**Zookie**

Digital codex available for download now.

**Gloomfang**

BlackRaven1987!! wrote:
So is there any way to change different units to troop?

If you take a brood of 30 termigaunts you can take ONE tervigon as a troop choice. thats it.

**Gorbad**

I really dont get the complaining about the new dex. Static armies will get wiped out by S6 AP2 pieplates appearing in the middle of their blobs, fliers can be dealt with pretty damn good now, tons of ID options, nice upgrades and pretty nasty shooting. EW is missing but ok, wipe them before they wipe you. Synapse stuff seems to be less of a problem because of good M on those "loners". Time to get the themed stuff from the shelf and feast again.

**NewTruthNeomaxim**

DO IT TO IT wrote:
Has anyone who preordered from Miniature Market had their stuff ship yet?

My order is sitting at "Preparing to Ship"

I guess i'm just a beer and pretzels dolt... because i'm really excited for my first 1500pts of 'Nids.

**Arbiter_Shade**

Gorbad wrote:
I really dont get the complaining about the new dex. Static armies will get wiped out by S6 AP2 pieplates appearing in the middle of their blobs, fliers can be dealt with pretty damn good now, tons of ID options, nice upgrades and pretty nasty shooting. EW is missing but ok, wipe them before they wipe you. Synapse stuff seems to be less of a problem because of good M on those "loners". Time to get the themed stuff from the shelf and feast again.

Static armies...gun lines...will get wiped by a 24" pie plate that moves 6"+d6 a turn? Sorry, against a Tau gun line the Exocrine is going down. Against IG? Same thing. Nothing in this new codex is good against fliers. Seriously, nothing. No skyfire except the Crone and it can only shoot two S5 Haywire missles a turn at BS 3, that isn't exactly great. What nice upgrades are there again? Regen is about it. Nasty shooting? What codex have you been reading? Seriously, I want to know.

**Windir83**

Just downloaded the codex and this had me chuckling at least: "A Tyrannofex’s weaponry eclipses that of its foes’ most powerful battle tanks." At least they've kept it humorous.

**NamelessBard**

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
DO IT TO IT wrote:
Has anyone who preordered from Miniature Market had their stuff ship yet?

My order is sitting at "Preparing to Ship"

I guess i'm just a beer and pretzels dolt... because i'm really excited for my first 1500pts of 'Nids.

I'm plenty excited for my game on Sunday. That still doesn't mean that I can't see the numerous limitations in this codex.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
infornography just discovered a nice little trick. Nothing says that spore mines from missed biovore shots can't assault the turn you place them.

**DO IT TO IT**

I feel like some Spore Mine Cluster details are missing. Do they still explode when they touch enemy models? If so, it sounds like they no longer Deep Strike in the pre-game, so the prospect of dropping them directly onto enemy units is appealing. But if they only explode when they charge a unit, forget it.

**Gloomfang**

DO IT TO IT wrote:
I feel like some Spore Mine Cluster details are missing. Do they still explode when they touch enemy models? If so, it sounds like they no longer Deep Strike in the pre-game, so the prospect of dropping them directly onto enemy units is appealing. But if they only explode when they charge a unit, forget it.

They only explode in CC from what I see. Don't have my dex in front of me though. I think that they can aassault the next turn though.

**Byte**

Have codex. Will squawk. Sorry no scans, don't ask.

**BlaxicanX**

I doubt you can deepstrike them directly onto a squad (though that would be cool); if you could do that, Biovores would be redundant.

What's more likely is that you have to deepstrike them away from a unit, and then drift them into the enemy where they explode in assault.

There is potential there. I don't like the cop-out of "lulz distraction unit" for arguing the merits of a unit, but in this case spores are cheap enough to really function as the ultimate distraction unit, as an opponent pretty much HAS to shoot something at them if they don't want to get hit by a strength 9 template next turn, and whatever they shoot at them will almost certainly be overkill since they're a unit of T1 W1 models. It's actually even BETTER in a TAC enviroment, because most TAC lists don't usually have throwaway units or bubblewrap units except for in their backfield.

How much does it cost for a full unit of spores?

**Anpu42**

Gloomfang wrote:
DO IT TO IT wrote:
I feel like some Spore Mine Cluster details are missing. Do they still explode when they touch enemy models? If so, it sounds like they no longer Deep Strike in the pre-game, so the prospect of dropping them directly onto enemy units is appealing. But if they only explode when they charge a unit, forget it.

They only explode in CC from what I see. Don't have my dex in front of me though. I think that they can aassault the next turn though.

You do have control over thier movement now.

**tag8833**

1) Hive Commander granting any unit outflank is pretty powerful. Which unit is more attractive to outflank? Tyranofexr, Carnifex, Zoanthrope?

2) Do Zoanthropes still have synapse?

3) Spore mines deep strike. Even if the enemy just kills them the next turn, 30 points for a distraction of that magnitude seems cheap. Will they become auto take in the same way that Doom in a Pod was?

4) Imagine you did want to take down something like a Heldrake. Is there any reasonable way Besides Tentaclids and Vector Strikes? Hive Guard with Impaler? Dakkafexes? Warp Lance?

5) It feels like Deathleaper is the key to much awesome. I just can't figure out what. Infiltrate him, and then Deep Strike Mawlocs?